Hahha! 'Heaps' is relative, when you live in somewhere like Australia - where stuff takes a while to catch up with the zeitgeist :-)

Tradition Six "An A.A. group ought never endorse, finance, or lend the A.A. name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property, and prestige divert us from our primary purpose."

Taking the AA name, putting Agnostica in front of it and changing the Alcoholics Anonymous 12 Steps and 12 Traditions to suit a secular movement, has nothing to do with Alcoholics Anonymous and is a break in every single AA Tradition.

I think its great if what they want to do is start a new recovery movement that is secular and has its own recovery books written by PhD's, but that is certainly not a part of AA and never will be.

I think that's a whole other thread Patriciae :)
As links go, I'm calling it ok under our rules

moving on... :)
D

Great idea!!

Best of Luck!

I think its very confusing for anyone who might be lead to believe that, that secular movement is part of Alcoholics Anonymous, when it isn't at all.

I believe it ought to be posted under the Secular Section here.... but I will respect your call Dee and move on :)

good on you dee

aa does have secular meetings listed in there were to find so they recognize them and accept them as part of aa

I have met hundreds who got sober in AA

have to wonder on this side -- how many times did you go ??

MM

Just a suggestion but perhaps we should just pick it back up from here. :)
...

Yep. They have meetings for women, gay people, and minorities. And now they are finally making room for the last drunks in the closet - atheists! :)

hallelujah to that brother and amen : )

Hey Jsprplc

If you're still reading this I commend you ;) Assuming that you have a problem with alcohol which is why you're posting on this site, my query is what is causing you to drink ? Is it a rational, logical decision that makes you drink or is it an emotional issue ? I am not being facetious rather I believe that you need to firstly look at what are the causes of your drinking habits.

If you're drinking habits are as a result of emotional issues then the solution needs to be similar, i.e., seeking a rational based solution for an emotional problem is unlikely to be successful.

Using data analysis, evidence, white papers, etc is really not useful for assessing AA from my viewpoint as I see it as a spiritual program which is designed to establish coping mechanisms for dealing with emotional distress. Assessing the effectiveness of AA from that viewpoint is like assessing say, the optimisation of happiness from hugging a dog.

At the end of the day, look within yourself and see the causes. Try AA with an open mind and determine whether it works for you.

All the best !

I am far from an expert and apologize because I'm jumping on this thread rather late in the game and others have likely already given this suggestion. There are many alternatives to AA which others have mentioned. The reality is though that as far as shear numbers of in person meetings AA has far more than other groups. I am struggling with AA not so much for the religious aspect but for other reasons. I'm fortunate to live in a major metropolitan area and plan on attending an "in person SMART" meeting later this week. I will say that if you want to try and get a vibe on that front try attending an AA online meeting and try one of the SMART recovery online meetings. See which resonates with you more. I'm sure there are other groups with similar options as well. No online meetings do not give the same fellowship and seeing and talking to people but as far as doctrine I think you'll be able to test the proverbial waters in advance.

My own experience with AA is that you will hear a lot of doctrine in the meetings but the people are certainly welcome and friendly. I have found I prefer large meetings that are listed as "open discussion" so I can be a fly on the wall so to speak. I've always walked away with something though and feel like I gained something from each one I've attended.

I admit though that having attended about five different AA meetings the doctrine bit isn't totally working for me. If this SMART meeting pans out (I've checked out the online meetings and they resonate with me more on the doctrine stuff) that will likely be where I find my "home" for face to face meetings. I don't mean to get or start a debate on that one. My better half has jumped into Al Anon and loves it. I'm feeling personally challenged by the powerlessness aspect of AA but that is me. I began abusing alcohol after a series of medical events that I truly had and have no control over to self medicate. As far as dealing with self medicating or reaching out to other people, and finding healthier other ways to deal with those stresses, well for me an alternative to AA is going to be better for me because of my individual circumstances.

Again I apologize for likely doing a lot of repeating of what other people have said. Check out a bunch of options. Getting a support system in place for if/when you are triggered to use is very helpful.

Good luck with whatever path you choose.

Peace:-)

I'm sober 23 years thanks to AA....I wouldn't be alive without it. There's a saying: AA isn't for people who need it, it's for people who want it. I suggest giving it 90 days, following suggestions, getting a sponsor and then deciding if it's for you.

the only thing i disagree with you about is your sugestion to try an online aa meeting
there nothing like a real face to face meeting i have tried them and many different ones and for me there just not the same at all i know they offer it up as some sort of help for people who might not be able to get out etc but honestly there not the same as face to face
plus the idea about going out to a meeting is in itself meant to break that isolation that many people end up doing to themselves
to get out of the house and out amonst real people is one of the first freedoms many find and like about going to aa

It was the end of my days and that's exactly what I did:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...where-god.html

It might be helpful to others here if you share what those are. Perhaps some are struggling with the same things.

Look, go or don't go but don't ask us to spin our wheels trying to convince you one way or the other.

To be fair KeyHeart the last time the OP posted was page two of this thread :)

D

If you live in an urban or even suburban area you probably have tons of options as far as AA goes..You might even have secular meetings in the area. Try different meetings as they can vary greatly..I live in the boonies so my choices are limited for live meetings..unless i want to drive about an hour or so...I know from where used to live

some meetings were "fun" meetings and some meetings were "serious" meetings with varying demographics...don't get your impression just from one meeting whether it's AA or something else...different meetings have different levels of aceptance of what can be discussed...just try going to a men's only meeting and you will see that right away..but just do your research to see what is available...good luck

" If you are not convinced on these vital issues, you ought to re-read the book to this point or else throw it away!"

Chapter Five, Alcoholics Anonymous Original Manuscript.

The cold hard evidence can be found at any AA meeting through those sharing their experience, strength, and hope. I found that when I wanted to quit drinking bad enough, I was willing to do what the Big Book suggested I do. The Twelve Steps were meaningless until I began to work them. No one forced me or held a gun to my head. I just knew life on my terms was killing me