Ken33xx

About 10 months ago a new member joined AA.

He’s stayed sober but now is at odds with members and things have gotten ugly twice in meetings.

He’s upset that members talk a good game in AA but few actually practice what they preach (mainly picking up the phone.)

However, he’s got a nasty temper and when he shares others look away or put their head down. No one wants to catch his eye and he’s already gotten into one physical altercation with a member after a meeting.

He's got a sponsor/seems to be working the steps but often calls others to rant on about work, family ect but now they've stopped picking-up.

He feels because members gave out their phone number (I vibed something was off with the guy when we first met so I didn't) they're obligated to listen to his daily woes.

He's betrayed and upset. He's shared that some members are two-faced assholes (which may or may not be true) but hardly the way to make others feel comfortable in a meeting.

Anyone have experience with this and if so how did you handle it?

ScottFromWI

I would block his number. If he persists he can be asked to refrain from meetings.

resolute50

IMO, this is a dangerous situation.
It is one reason that I don't go to AA.
There are people there that have more baggage than addiction.
Can also be people there with serious mental issues.

Croissant

Has anyone spoken to his Sponsor to reinforce the message that EVERYBODY is trying to recover and has their own issues also?

This fellow seems to be really impacting on others and he needs to be reminded the group is there for everyone's recovery, not just his.

Ken33xx

Although I find this a rare situation in AA. You're right it can get ugly.

Maybe 2-3 years into my sobriety there was a member with a temper. We exchanged tel. numbers and after awhile I realized I was one of the few in the fellowship that would speak with him.

When I too started avoiding the guy he got very angry and I stopped going to meetings. The local AA community at the time was rather small and nobody knew how or wanted to deal with a potentially violent situation.

Fortunately, he left the country a short time later but I learned to trust my gut instinct with new members.

Ken33xx

Good idea but I don't know who the sponsor is assuming he actually has one.

DoubleBarrel

If he got into a physical altercation he should have been arrested immediately.

That is totally inappropriate and illegal, and for those who say, this is why I avoid AA, gimme a break. Did you ever go to bars, or clubs, where this kind of thing happens on a regular basis?

Gottalife

In the area I am visiting there is a similar problem. I didn't see the behaviour that started it, but it resulted in the groups changing their preamble to state "the group does not accept threatening behaviour or offensive language."

Fair enough, but the member feels this is a personal attack on him so he has mounted a campaign to have the clause removed.

I wasn't at the GC, but one group obliged, or bowed to the pressure. Rather than removing the whole clause, they should have saved paper and just crossed out the word "not". It became apparent at the next meeting I was at. The member immediately engaged in offensive language and threatening behaviour when asked to share, resulting in most of the women leaving the meeting.

The unity of the group is badly affected and I would not be surprised to see the women form a womens group, which really would be bad news for the rest of us, not to mention any new women that turn up at regular meetings and find no women there.

I don't know what the solution will be. Most members do not like conflict (me included). Maybe we'll hide, maybe one of the GCs will trespass him from the meetings for a while. There have been good suggestions on this site about this problem in the past, but it is a matter for the GC. Will it go with God or go with fear? Will some put their fingers in their ears and chant "acceptance (do nothing) is the answer to all my problems"? Who knows.

Bubovski

10 months is pretty early days, but it wouldn't want to get worse.
When it come to support, enough is enough, but enough is necessary.
We need to consider the newcomer too; I mean the really newcomer.

Croissant

[QUOTE=DoubleBarrel;4804052]If he got into a physical altercation he should have been arrested immediately.

That is totally inappropriate and illegal, and for those who say, this is why I avoid AA, gimme a break. Did you ever go to bars, or clubs, where this kind of thing happens on a regular basis?[/QUOTE]

I think that's what we are trying to avoid when sober, is the point.

And, I mostly drank alone. My mother was a violent drunk. I know I wouldn't cope being around aggressive people, both here and in real life.

tomsteve

"Anyone have experience with this and if so how did you handle it? "
yup, happened here at my HG a few years ago.
what I did when the guy got on me about not pickin up the phone I reminded him that I said I wont sit and listen to his chaos and drama without offering a solution and if he didn't want to live the solution then don't call me. got on me right in a meeting and I politely said," it may do ya good to read page 96 in the BB."
so onto someone else.
eventually a few of us approached him about his behavior in a concerned way and trying to find a solution. it didn't help.
GC said his behavior is not acceptable and he will not be allowed at the meeting if his behavior didn't change. it didn't change so we( 3 of us) pulled him a side and said he would have to find another meeting. eventually ended up calling the cops and having him removed from the property. then a PPO had to be put on him.
but it all stopped after that.


im with croissant about blaming this behavior for avoiding AA. the stuff happens every single day out in public.theres people with serioius mental illnesses walking the streets, driving cars, maybe even workin right along side others. hell, the news only shows a small percentage. pick up the local police blotter and find out whats happenin every day outside of an AA meeting in your town. and by people not involved with AA!!

sugarbear1

he sounds hurt and scared. has he worked through those steps? is anyone listening beyond the words he uses? is anyone encouraging him to get help outsideof aa?

Ken33xx

I agree and this is what I did years back when a member had a go at me after a meeting. However, I am in a foreign country and the police aren't too concerned with what happens between foreigners as long as the locals aren't involved.

I guess the best course of action if this continues or escalates is to talk with others about how to handle this.

At last night and tonight's meeting one member shared in a roundabout way about his insulting other members.

Hopefully, he'll take the hint and just cool it.



21 years in AA and this and is only the third time I've run across such a problem.


I agree he's probably hurting, scared and lonely. However, when a member becomes violent during or after a meeting he needs to understand this has to stop.

Boleo

I have had talks with my area Intergroup about violent and or abusive behavior at meetings I have co-founded or been a part of at the Group Conscious level.

Their answer was - each meeting GC has the right and an obligation to do whatever it takes to keep things safe for the group and AA as a whole. They came right out and said "Call the cops if necessary".

courage2

In NYC it's not that unusual to have the police called at meetings. Almost every meeting I go to has a statement at the beginning "behavior that is disruptive will not be tolerated. If you are disruptive you will be asked to leave." Some are more explicit. Usually what happens is someone being disruptive will be called out and asked to stop. It they continue, someone will go over to them and speak to them personally while the meeting continues. If they continue, that person (usually an old-timer) will ask the person to leave. Then a few guys will come over to escort the individual out. If there's trouble, we call the cops. Then there will be a group conscience and the disruptive person will typically be banned from that meeting for some period of time, like 1 month or 6. I've seen it maybe a handful of times and I don't go to meetings in hardcore neighborhoods. It brings out some interesting things in the group. I've also seen people who've been banned from meetings come back and integrate well.

LadyBlue0527

Wow, glad that I've never encountered that!

It doesn't seem that way to me at all. This guy is all me me me me me. Classic but usually we aren't confrontational about it.

I hope you find resolve because it sounds like he's killing it for everybody. I'd speak to the head of the group.

resolute50

Yes, and I was looking for trouble.
If I go to an AA meeting, I'm not looking for trouble.
Or drama.

courage2

The way I think of it, this kind of thing is neither. Alcoholism according to AA is a form of insanity. First paragraph, How It Works, "there are those too who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover".... (OMG I can't freaking believe I'm quoting BB!)

One sees a lot of kinds of insanity in the rooms. If we look at it as a floorshow or drama -- and it is darn good cheap entertainment -- that's part of our own sickness. If we look at it as a way to practice our rising understanding and sympathy with the human race, and try to be of service to others, that's recovery.

In my home group, there was a guy who listened to suggestions from pigeons and squirrels, was belligerently racist-paranoid on occasion, and otherwise beyond strange. I heard him once celebrate his anniversary by quoting in full the passage "Dare Mighty Things" by Theodore Roosevelt. He had a stroke and is now in a nursing home and I miss him much, even though he used to drive me batty when I was trying to make coffee LOL!

Archelon

It's a valid reason for people to avoid going to AA or any other place they feel uncomfortable.

They didn't say no one should attend AA, they spoke of their own experience and feelings.

As was said, many of us avoid any place where such behavior takes place.

DoubleBarrel

These things RARELY happen at AA meetings. My point was that it's a silly reason to not go. Sometimes, the AV will give you any reason not to go, and hearing about some problem, elsewhere, you grab on to, and say, yep, see THATS why I don't go!

My point was that we didn't care about putting ourselves in worse places when we were drinking. Sticking your neck out, (or hardly at all) is WORTH it when getting sober.
Maybe it reminds you of how people act when drinking.
These kind of people could be anywhere. You cannot hide from life.