What would you do
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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What would you do
I have been on this site for almost a year now. I often read debates about various recovery programs and even within a recovery program views on how to practice or interpret that said program. In this often contentious threads many suggest or question why the passion.
I was in the shower and I was thinking today, what would you do if you had HIV? Lets say you contracted HIV from a sexual encounter that was a one night stand. Its your fault that you contracted this disease but you might not have known the risks or maybe you did and had the encounter anyhow. After you get through the self pity and the why me, you begin to put your best foot forward and figure out how to live with HIV. Yet you are embarrassed to let anyone know you have the disease - they worry they can catch it from you, your treated in the public like a lepper based on other's ignorance.
As you take your meds one day you discover a a holistic approach by gathering certain plants. You can't prove that this has any effect on your HIV but the disease seems to be in remission and you have recovered from HIV providing you continue to gather these plants daily.
The question becomes what do you do? Like the ABC TV show. Do you yell from the rooftops and risk your anonymity? Do you try to pass this message onto other HIV survivors even if they think your out of your mind because their Drs can't prove the efficacy?
Isn't Addiction like this? AIDS (developed from HIV) got the widespread attention after some well know celebrities such as Magic Johnson, Arthur Ashe, Rock Hudson contracted it but when other celebrities such as Elton John, Bono, Bill Clinton shined the spotlight on this disease. I actually have some experience here in working with a foundation that helped change AIDS by reducing the costs of the drugs. The change was collective but education was the key. No longer is HIV a death sentence.
While addiction is more complex, I wonder if the reduction in addiction will follow a similar pattern? If so, I also wonder about the status quo of remaining anonymous regarding our disease. I can already see the AA traditions being thrown back at me based on this post, lol.
My step sponsor and I discussed this and like most seeds it stuck in my head and I have been gnawing on it. Got me thinking. I don't have the answers but wanted to throw the thoughts out there.
I was in the shower and I was thinking today, what would you do if you had HIV? Lets say you contracted HIV from a sexual encounter that was a one night stand. Its your fault that you contracted this disease but you might not have known the risks or maybe you did and had the encounter anyhow. After you get through the self pity and the why me, you begin to put your best foot forward and figure out how to live with HIV. Yet you are embarrassed to let anyone know you have the disease - they worry they can catch it from you, your treated in the public like a lepper based on other's ignorance.
As you take your meds one day you discover a a holistic approach by gathering certain plants. You can't prove that this has any effect on your HIV but the disease seems to be in remission and you have recovered from HIV providing you continue to gather these plants daily.
The question becomes what do you do? Like the ABC TV show. Do you yell from the rooftops and risk your anonymity? Do you try to pass this message onto other HIV survivors even if they think your out of your mind because their Drs can't prove the efficacy?
Isn't Addiction like this? AIDS (developed from HIV) got the widespread attention after some well know celebrities such as Magic Johnson, Arthur Ashe, Rock Hudson contracted it but when other celebrities such as Elton John, Bono, Bill Clinton shined the spotlight on this disease. I actually have some experience here in working with a foundation that helped change AIDS by reducing the costs of the drugs. The change was collective but education was the key. No longer is HIV a death sentence.
While addiction is more complex, I wonder if the reduction in addiction will follow a similar pattern? If so, I also wonder about the status quo of remaining anonymous regarding our disease. I can already see the AA traditions being thrown back at me based on this post, lol.
My step sponsor and I discussed this and like most seeds it stuck in my head and I have been gnawing on it. Got me thinking. I don't have the answers but wanted to throw the thoughts out there.
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I'm not quite clear on what you're asking, and I'm also not clear on your premise jdonner? Addiction isn't like HIV IMO. The analogy you've set-up doesn't work for me because even if a holistic approach for HIV was found, it could easily be proven scientifically to be effective. I believe a simple test for an HIV patient's viral load would determine if the holistic approach was working.
Are you suggesting that the 12-Steps should be more heavily promoted because you feel they are very effective, even though it may not be possible to clinically or statistically prove this is the case?
Are you suggesting that the 12-Steps should be more heavily promoted because you feel they are very effective, even though it may not be possible to clinically or statistically prove this is the case?
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I tell people freely that I'm an alcoholic. i am bipolar, too, and tell people freely about that, too, because i live a normal, happy, functional life now, and I want to change people's perceptions about the stigma. I know when i was first diagnosed, I was horrified at the thought that I might be MENTALLY ILL.
But living with it has totally wiped away all my fear and shame. I find that people don't judge me when I tell them; they are surprised, but they don't recoil.
I have had some people recoil when I tell them I'm an alcoholic, though! Go figure!
But living with it has totally wiped away all my fear and shame. I find that people don't judge me when I tell them; they are surprised, but they don't recoil.
I have had some people recoil when I tell them I'm an alcoholic, though! Go figure!
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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I think I understand. Your thinking that if people were more open about being an addict or alcoholic that it would reduce stigma and perhaps focus attention on the problem in a constructive way. Did you see the movie "Anonymous People"? It speaks to this topic.
There is only a conflict with the AA traditions if you publicly mention you are in AA.
There is only a conflict with the AA traditions if you publicly mention you are in AA.
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Originally Posted by awuh1 
I think I understand. Your thinking that if people were more open about being an addict or alcoholic that it would reduce stigma and perhaps focus attention on the problem in a constructive way. Did you see the movie "Anonymous People"? It speaks to this topic.
There is only a conflict with the AA traditions if you publicly mention you are in AA.
There is only a conflict with the AA traditions if you publicly mention you are in AA.
Actually I see HIV as less complex than addiction from a medical perspective.
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There's a film, I haven't seen it yet - called "The Anonymous People". I believe that film was designed to do just what you're talking about, JD. Start shedding the shame and secrecy about this condition and start shouting from the rooftops. Not sure if anyone's seen it, would be interested in feedback if there was.
I agree that it's too bad that so many of us suffer in silence - even AFTER we've kicked the active habit. There's this monster in the closet that we're always worried is going to come out and scare anyone close to us. I know it's held my own social recovery back a great deal, knowing that I have this "secret" waiting for any new friend of mine. At least, that's how my brain perceives it.
Fact of the matter is, we're a pretty damn hearty bunch - those of us that have figured out how to not only survive, but thrive (pardon the cliche) really SHOULD be put on a pedestal for others to see. Instead, guys like Robert Downey Jr., etc, kind of shy away from the recovery talk. Where's our Magic Johnson, our Elton John, our Bono? I don't know.
I think it will change, alas I think we're much like the 80's AIDS generation. We haven't got to the point where being a recovering alcoholic/addict is seen as "brave", we're still in the infancy of the PR movement. It's kind of fun being on the cutting edge and living through these changing times, but unfortunately this means we have to do the tough sledding. I guess that's our load to bear.
I also hope that someday 12-step groups stop the secrecy, enough of the Skull and Bones and meetings shrouded in darkness with bad coffee in church basements. I would like to see more meetings held in parks, on hills, out in wide open spaces in the future.
I agree that it's too bad that so many of us suffer in silence - even AFTER we've kicked the active habit. There's this monster in the closet that we're always worried is going to come out and scare anyone close to us. I know it's held my own social recovery back a great deal, knowing that I have this "secret" waiting for any new friend of mine. At least, that's how my brain perceives it.
Fact of the matter is, we're a pretty damn hearty bunch - those of us that have figured out how to not only survive, but thrive (pardon the cliche) really SHOULD be put on a pedestal for others to see. Instead, guys like Robert Downey Jr., etc, kind of shy away from the recovery talk. Where's our Magic Johnson, our Elton John, our Bono? I don't know.
I think it will change, alas I think we're much like the 80's AIDS generation. We haven't got to the point where being a recovering alcoholic/addict is seen as "brave", we're still in the infancy of the PR movement. It's kind of fun being on the cutting edge and living through these changing times, but unfortunately this means we have to do the tough sledding. I guess that's our load to bear.
I also hope that someday 12-step groups stop the secrecy, enough of the Skull and Bones and meetings shrouded in darkness with bad coffee in church basements. I would like to see more meetings held in parks, on hills, out in wide open spaces in the future.
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Interesting ideas, JD.
There is a social element to drinking embraced with in the public awareness that HIV/AIDS doesn't have. There is a tolerance level for those who drink, and legal limits on consumption, etc. AIDS has nothing going for it with any upside. This makes a huge difference in how the public has supported research and public understanding of the realities of HIV/AIDS.
I worked with addicted residents who also had HIV which causes AIDS. This was difficult work, as they had to be somewhat isolated because of runaway fears of contagions. This was also back in 1983/84/85. AIDS was clinically discovered only in 1981. There was plenty of misunderstandings and downright hatred for those suffering with AIDS. Today things are very different.
Our work with such cases was limited and eventually ended as funding sources became unhappy and legally things were all over the place on the responsibilities towards others if they should somehow become infected with HIV by accidental blood transfusion or sexual transmission (the residence served both male and female). It later became more sensible to have hospices devoted to AIDS clients and bring in addiction help directly to them. There was plenty of moral judgments on whether AIDS patients should declare themselves infected when attending events - such as AA and church functions, etc. It was pretty messy, and the human misery was obvious. Good people were dying from their addictions while others argued about protecting themselves. In fact, my work with such clients changed my career path, and not for the better either. I made some serious enemies in my refusal to wholesale abandon HIV infected patients to their addictions. I also made some serious friends as well.
The early years of public awareness of HIV/AIDS was brutal. We would do public seminars which had some positive effects eventually. I don't regret my choices to advocate on my clients holistic well-being.
I don't think we can have the same momentum of results with alcoholism or addiction in the public awareness for the sure reason that drinking is not always a problem for drinkers, where as HIV/AIDS is without exception a real problem for everybody. This makes all the difference.
There is a social element to drinking embraced with in the public awareness that HIV/AIDS doesn't have. There is a tolerance level for those who drink, and legal limits on consumption, etc. AIDS has nothing going for it with any upside. This makes a huge difference in how the public has supported research and public understanding of the realities of HIV/AIDS.
I worked with addicted residents who also had HIV which causes AIDS. This was difficult work, as they had to be somewhat isolated because of runaway fears of contagions. This was also back in 1983/84/85. AIDS was clinically discovered only in 1981. There was plenty of misunderstandings and downright hatred for those suffering with AIDS. Today things are very different.
Our work with such cases was limited and eventually ended as funding sources became unhappy and legally things were all over the place on the responsibilities towards others if they should somehow become infected with HIV by accidental blood transfusion or sexual transmission (the residence served both male and female). It later became more sensible to have hospices devoted to AIDS clients and bring in addiction help directly to them. There was plenty of moral judgments on whether AIDS patients should declare themselves infected when attending events - such as AA and church functions, etc. It was pretty messy, and the human misery was obvious. Good people were dying from their addictions while others argued about protecting themselves. In fact, my work with such clients changed my career path, and not for the better either. I made some serious enemies in my refusal to wholesale abandon HIV infected patients to their addictions. I also made some serious friends as well.
The early years of public awareness of HIV/AIDS was brutal. We would do public seminars which had some positive effects eventually. I don't regret my choices to advocate on my clients holistic well-being. I don't think we can have the same momentum of results with alcoholism or addiction in the public awareness for the sure reason that drinking is not always a problem for drinkers, where as HIV/AIDS is without exception a real problem for everybody. This makes all the difference.
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Originally Posted by EndGameNYC
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My best thinking work is done in the shower too!! 
As Robby said, the problem with addiction is that not everyone is addicted, alcohol is widely available and it can be a part of a healthy lifestyle for many people, and then there are those that are addicted to it. So compassion for those that are addicted will always be blurred with debates over free will, is it a disease etc when not everyone is addicted.
In contrast HIV for everyone that has it is a serious issue, it can be viewed in a more black/white perspective compared to the shades of grey society currently views alcoholism, that's then probably the key thing that needs to change if anything is to change.
As Robby said, the problem with addiction is that not everyone is addicted, alcohol is widely available and it can be a part of a healthy lifestyle for many people, and then there are those that are addicted to it. So compassion for those that are addicted will always be blurred with debates over free will, is it a disease etc when not everyone is addicted.
In contrast HIV for everyone that has it is a serious issue, it can be viewed in a more black/white perspective compared to the shades of grey society currently views alcoholism, that's then probably the key thing that needs to change if anything is to change.
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Did you eat your spinach today, JDooner? All those deep thoughts going on in the shower!
My best friend caught HIV from his first sexual encounter at the age of 21 when a death sentence was all you could hope for with HIV. I think he'd prefer to be an alcoholic. And I think I would too.
I would not pose the question to him, because quite simply one who has the other simply cannot understand how it feels to walk in those shoes.
A death sentence at 21 was pretty hard on him and I'll admit I found your post a bit offensive at first, but know you didn't mean it that way.
My best friend caught HIV from his first sexual encounter at the age of 21 when a death sentence was all you could hope for with HIV. I think he'd prefer to be an alcoholic. And I think I would too.
I would not pose the question to him, because quite simply one who has the other simply cannot understand how it feels to walk in those shoes.
A death sentence at 21 was pretty hard on him and I'll admit I found your post a bit offensive at first, but know you didn't mean it that way.
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Originally Posted by bigsombrero
I also hope that someday 12-step groups stop the secrecy, enough of the Skull and Bones and meetings shrouded in darkness with bad coffee in church basements. I would like to see more meetings held in parks, on hills, out in wide open spaces in the future.
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i laughed at you saying the aa traditions come looming back at you jd as that is the answer
i guess the point i picked up on is why the hell aa is anonymous, as its old an out dated, but if you start changing things in aa what is the next change that will happen ? and the next ?
we dare not change aa in anyway shape or form from how its always been as an organization its set up to make sure none of us alcoholics have a good idea lol
i wanted aa to be like a huge hotel at one time were we could all live together and keep each other sober
it would be far easier to drag in the down and outs and take care of them all till they could find there feet again
until i read it had already been done many many years before i was born and it failed big time
the reason aa is like is it today is after all the many different ideas they had and failed at they learned from it
the learned its not a good idea for an alcholic to have a good idea that concerns the running of aa lol
not at its core i mean
and being anonymous is one of its core values
just because you or i or 100,000 of us agree we might like it known we are alcoholic we have to protect the ones who dont else they will leave and also many people come to aa scared they might meet people they know there famous people might need to come the queen of england might turn up one day if she has a problem with drink
we need to protect them and keep our noses out : )
i guess the point i picked up on is why the hell aa is anonymous, as its old an out dated, but if you start changing things in aa what is the next change that will happen ? and the next ?
we dare not change aa in anyway shape or form from how its always been as an organization its set up to make sure none of us alcoholics have a good idea lol
i wanted aa to be like a huge hotel at one time were we could all live together and keep each other sober
it would be far easier to drag in the down and outs and take care of them all till they could find there feet again
until i read it had already been done many many years before i was born and it failed big time
the reason aa is like is it today is after all the many different ideas they had and failed at they learned from it
the learned its not a good idea for an alcholic to have a good idea that concerns the running of aa lol
not at its core i mean
and being anonymous is one of its core values
just because you or i or 100,000 of us agree we might like it known we are alcoholic we have to protect the ones who dont else they will leave and also many people come to aa scared they might meet people they know there famous people might need to come the queen of england might turn up one day if she has a problem with drink
we need to protect them and keep our noses out : )
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