Windancer

One or two drinks never cut it for me either. If someone tried to limit me to 2 or 3, I would "sneak" more in to get my "fix". If I had one or two, I ended up miserable and freaking out because the thought of not having more was like telling me not to breathe (or that's how I felt).

freecoffee

Normal drinking, I guess if you define it as "drinking that doesn't get you dependent," which is what the real issue with alcohol is, is possible for anyone, regardless of background. Even if you get intoxicated, an "every other day" approach is viable, as long as you haven't undergone kindling (ie. repeated cold turkey sessions with no medical help). The whole idea of alcoholism as a "disease" is detrimental because it just leads to heavier drinking if a slip-up occurs, because the person is wracked with guilt and thinks that they are permanently ill, so they just drink more and more. The best way to look at it is that "I got physically addicted to this, that sucked, and now, after getting off of it I can choose to either be abstinent or drink safely so that this doesn't happen again."

blackjay

I got anxiety, too, if I didn't think I had gotten enough. I would have an overwhelming desire for MORE and I remember it feeling like a fire in my stomach. I became restless, angry and couldn't sleep. I took Revia for a while and have not had that feeling since. Of course, NOW I am not drinking, but when I was drinking still, Revia killed that for me.

Jimboagust

Totally. Although the "choosing to drink safely" part doesn't seem like a viable option for a lot of folks. I'm with you on being suspicious about the disease theory of alcoholism (or any addiction) but the neurobiology of addiction seems to indicate that one could permanently screw up the brain's ability to process the substance in question. The reasons for this are probably a combination of genetic and environmental factors.

freecoffee

It's possible to moderate- I'm sober for a few months to reset my body after a major tragedy happened in my life that set me off on a really, really bad drinking binge, but plan to start up again around winter at a very, very moderate pace. I did it before and it was actually cool- having your life revolve around not drinking can be just as obsessive and conflicting as having your life revolve around drinking.

For me, it's better to just have a few at night or on the weekend than it is to constantly have to go to meetings to admit I'm "powerless" over something I totally have power over as long as I keep at it. One drink doesn't lead to fifteen for someone who was alcohol dependent. That is a myth that needs to be abolished. But sobriety is totally acceptable to me as well as a way to remedy alcohol addiction.

Bubovski

In fairness to AA 'characters' the fellowship is primarily about abstaining from alcohol. The approach IMO can also develop better all round citizens.
In some ways tackling a major issue can encourage later looks at other problems. Becoming too well adjusted too suddenly may make us somewhat self righteous, leading to other problems.

I must admit AA smokers who have been around for yonks tends to annoy me a little...........

Jimboagust

It's possible to moderate for some. Not so for others. This depends on the extent and duration of substance abuse. Statistically, the more dependent you were on the substance and the longer you used the less likely you are to ever be able to use in a manner that even remotely resembles moderation. Genetics also seem to play a role in this, although the science is still rather iffy on exactly how genetic predispositions actually affect people's ability to process things like alcohol.

So, the one drink leading to fifteen is a myth if you think its a completely determined outcome that applies to everyone in the same way. But it's probably true for a lot of people. I know that I could have a drink or two tonight but in the past my drinking has always progressed to dangerous levels in a matter of weeks or months. It's not a 100% sure that this would be the case if I jumped off the wagon again, but if I were a gambling man I'd figure the odds were against me on this. That's probably why so many people end up going completely abstinent, even in spite of all the ambiguities, doubts, cravings, awkward social situations, etc. that accompany sobriety.

Given the f*cking abyss that is the alternative, obsessing about drinking whilst sober really isn't that horrible.

Dee74

I'm never sure of the point people are making here when they say moderation is possible for some Jimbo.

General population? sure.

Recovery site members? Not so much.

D

blackjay

This may be a whole new topic, but I tried the Sinclair Method using Revia, and after several weeks I did notice my cravings were less and I lost interest in drinking mass quantities of alcohol. Of course, I ran out of Revia and started drinking like I used to again later, but it seemed like it could have helped me to drink normally eventually. I remember missing getting drunk, because psychologically I still craved the escape, but when I drank wine I literally gagged and the thought of drinking 12 beers was unappealing and I couldn't make myself do it. It was like trying to drink 144 ounces of water all at once. It was NOT a cure and like I said, psychologically I still wanted to escape from my own mind by getting blitzed, but it made a physical difference in how I reacted to that first drink and reduced my cravings. I am planning to go back on Revia because I have health insurance now, but I do not intend to drink or do the Sinclair Method. I would if I felt I couldn't abstain completely, though, but I have reached a point now where I can.

Jimboagust

Totally D. I would bet that the vast majority of people who go through the trouble of creating a username here have gotten to the point where it's going to be awfully hard to moderate. In fact, it's probably at the point where the risk far outweighs the benefits.

blackjay, the advances in drugs which help with the physical dimension of addiction are fascinating. But it seems that the same applies here as with the pharmacology used to treat mental disorders, namely that the drugs are most effective when used in conjunction with some kind of behavioral therapy. Even if we completely nullify the physical effects of addiction there are still the myriad psychological dimensions, which, of course, means that one is probably best off using some kind of support therapy (e.g. AA, counseling or something of that sort) anyway.

ChiefBromden

And that is why I am puzzled and feel slightly uneasy with the distinction between hard drinkers and true alcoholics. Mind you, I don't want to discuss recovery methods. At all. But for me... I know I had a massive problem with alcohol, consumed a liter of whisky daily, and managed to progress to full blown alcoholic neuropathy ( bye bye sural nerves...)

Yet I almost never lost control or got stupidly drunk. But, I "err" on the side of caution, and will keep on calling myself an alcoholic who has no business drinking a single glass ever again.

Again, not writing this as an attack, but I'd hate to see people take away "hmmm, maybe I'm just a hard drinker, so perhaps later I can..." I hope you see where I am coming from.

polaris

I had a philosophical response, that I lost due to technical issues.

So to simplify - If you are posting about your drinking on a forum focused on Alcoholism then...it may be time for self reflection. Would it ever enter the mind of a "normal" drinker to come here?

Gottalife

Drinking "normally", whatever that is, has no appeal to me, neither does the thought of controlling my drinking.

What I would have liked would be to enjoy my drinking and be safe. But I have known for a long time that I could not enjoy my drinking, nor could I drink safely. Total abstainence is the only solution for me.

Ken33xx

Sums my drinking up as well.

I simply cannot control my drinking. Maybe it'll all be fine or maybe I'll completely blow it. I just never know.

Much easier to avoid that first drink.

Arbor

I've always felt that once you go there and abuse it the way I have that all bets are off. The process of drinking has been learned and cannot be unlearned easily. Best to just stay away from it.

MattyBoy

I find myself absolutely mesmerised watching some people taking over 30 minutes to finish a pint of beer. It's almost painful watching people raising the glass to the lips and almost as soon as the drink comes in contact with them they put it back down.

I didn't drink like that. I actually don't know anyone, personally, who drank like I did. Finishing cans of beer in one gulp or pouring a half glass of vodka and mixing it with coke and downing that in one.... Is that normal drinking? You're damn right it ain't and that's why I leave the stuff alone.

jdooner

I agree with your comments Chief. I believe there are as many nuances and variations of addiction (I am including alcoholism) as there are people suffering from this disorder. All recovery programs simplify in an attempt to cast a net to the mean not 3 std deviations. This means they can help the majority but there will always be slight differences and in some case major differences.

I relate to AA's Real Alcoholic when I am honest about my addictions (not always with alcohol either). I quit jobs though because they got in my way of drinking and as I look back and reflect upon my life the evidence was there the entire time - I was just unwilling to be honest with myself.

My point is no matter what program you use or lack of a program, the core virtue to be successful is honesty in my opinion. I think you then need to be willing and open but until you can be honest with yourself denial is a hard trait to get past. I do see wisdom in several program to help people see the facts and become more honest with themselves.

nigey1

GOLD I did the same. Said a couple of cartons a week because it sounded reasonable. Then saw them doing the mental math of 48 cans divided by 7 equalling 7 cans a night. Doh.

Seriously I only hung out and drank with guys that worked and played hard and sorta thought it was quite normal. This last coupla years has been a real eye opener and I actually feel a bit ashamed at my ignorance and indulgence when there is so much going on in life.

gaffo

That's funny! I learned early not to tell the doc how much I drank even then I would screw up and tell them I "only" drank a six pack per day. Oops! Now I tell them I quit everything.

ChefWolverine

Pretty funny that some nights I wouldnt drink because I only had a half a fifth of whiskey in the freezer, I knew that wouldnt be enough.