My Father
Do not add alcohol
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Duluth, Mn
Posts: 157
My Father
I get pissed at my dad. I guess I just wish he would have admitted he was an alcoholic long before I started drinking, warned me about alcoholism and tried to educate me about it. To this day, after all our family has seen, he still defends drinking and says it just needs to be done with a little restraint or caution. He has a real casual attitude about it. I think he just doesn't want to admit he has a problem with it.
The truth is that we learn many behaviors from our parents. We do what they show us to do. The first immage that comes to mid when I think of my father is that of him sitting on the couch smoking a cig, having a beer and totally bombed from being at the bar. I'm not blaming him for my disease, just sometimes for permitting it to flourish. I remember coming home when I was 16 & 17 just bombed and he knew it but only casually mentioned the next day that I shouldn't be drinking.
Where do I stand on this issue? Do I have the right to be angry with him or not? If he would have just admitted he was an A a long time ago he could have helped me. Then again, he is sick and part of being sick is denial of the disease as it tricks the mind.
Maybe I should just make peace with myself and accept that is the way it is and I need to get over it. Get on with my life. The sad thing is that I see the same thing happening with my brother and his daughter.
The truth is that we learn many behaviors from our parents. We do what they show us to do. The first immage that comes to mid when I think of my father is that of him sitting on the couch smoking a cig, having a beer and totally bombed from being at the bar. I'm not blaming him for my disease, just sometimes for permitting it to flourish. I remember coming home when I was 16 & 17 just bombed and he knew it but only casually mentioned the next day that I shouldn't be drinking.
Where do I stand on this issue? Do I have the right to be angry with him or not? If he would have just admitted he was an A a long time ago he could have helped me. Then again, he is sick and part of being sick is denial of the disease as it tricks the mind.
Maybe I should just make peace with myself and accept that is the way it is and I need to get over it. Get on with my life. The sad thing is that I see the same thing happening with my brother and his daughter.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 21
Woodtick--
My dad too was an alkie for 20 years. I'm in recovery(not doing so well) at the young age of 23. I think it is right to blame him for HIS actions, but I often blame him(my dad) for all actions, including mine. That doesn't help me. Not trying to talk down to you, but for me recovery is all about myself and God. I understand that family and friends are important, but for me I have to let myself not worry or concern too much about others at the moment...just me. I hope this is not off you topic, just wanted to let you know that I feel the same way, I just try to realize that that was his mistake not mine and go from there. I'll say this, when my dad went to a 30 day program in 1987, my mother told me he was "sick" and I said "if he is sick we should get him a beer", and I was 6 years old. I understand where you are coming from if that helps....best of luck.
John
My dad too was an alkie for 20 years. I'm in recovery(not doing so well) at the young age of 23. I think it is right to blame him for HIS actions, but I often blame him(my dad) for all actions, including mine. That doesn't help me. Not trying to talk down to you, but for me recovery is all about myself and God. I understand that family and friends are important, but for me I have to let myself not worry or concern too much about others at the moment...just me. I hope this is not off you topic, just wanted to let you know that I feel the same way, I just try to realize that that was his mistake not mine and go from there. I'll say this, when my dad went to a 30 day program in 1987, my mother told me he was "sick" and I said "if he is sick we should get him a beer", and I was 6 years old. I understand where you are coming from if that helps....best of luck.
John
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
WT
by your reasoning, I should be P O'ed at my sons then.
I don't remember having even one beer after my youngest was born. Maybe all of a six pack when #2 was born till about his being 1 year old. Now as for my oldest son. Before he was 3 years old I had stopped.
All 4 of my children have been told the warnings of drinking, drugs, smoking, driving fast.... All 4 drink to some degree. 2 smoke, and 3 drive fast.
They made the choices for themselves. Even with the warnings... it was their choice.
Though I had seen my own parents drink...I had also seen the ill effects the drinking caused as well. Still I picked up and downed many a beer on my own.
I take full blame for "my" drinking. I also take the credit now for my not drinking. Just for today... I say no and will not pick up the first one.
by your reasoning, I should be P O'ed at my sons then.
I don't remember having even one beer after my youngest was born. Maybe all of a six pack when #2 was born till about his being 1 year old. Now as for my oldest son. Before he was 3 years old I had stopped.
All 4 of my children have been told the warnings of drinking, drugs, smoking, driving fast.... All 4 drink to some degree. 2 smoke, and 3 drive fast.
They made the choices for themselves. Even with the warnings... it was their choice.
Though I had seen my own parents drink...I had also seen the ill effects the drinking caused as well. Still I picked up and downed many a beer on my own.
I take full blame for "my" drinking. I also take the credit now for my not drinking. Just for today... I say no and will not pick up the first one.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 375
If I'm honest I learned my drinking from my father too. But the road to and from alcoholism is a personal one - rarely does anyone else put the glass to your lips but yourself and there is no one but yourself can make the decision not to drink.
We should be thankful that our fathers gave us the tools for self-discovery and self awareness - even if one of those tools was alcohol. My father may not have managed to conquor this thing like I intend to, maybe he has, or yet will do - but that's irrelevant.
Deg.
We should be thankful that our fathers gave us the tools for self-discovery and self awareness - even if one of those tools was alcohol. My father may not have managed to conquor this thing like I intend to, maybe he has, or yet will do - but that's irrelevant.
Deg.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 610
Hi Woodtick,
I can relate to what you're saying so I'll share with you my experience with this.
My mother is an alcoholic and has been for a long time, but she can function reasonably well and doesn't think its such a problem. Sometimes I'm angry, no, furious as hell with her but other times I see myself in her, the same struggle with denial, the same despair etc. and my heart just aches for her.
Its becoming more apparent to me, though, that the issue here is more about me and wanting to shift the focus off myself. I've always found the passive stance very comfortable and only now am I realising that comfortable doesn't equal healthy, that I have choices and the direction of my focus is a decision I make. I'm usually avoiding something.
Having said that, sometimes I just need to vent some old emotions and blame certainly comes into that. I guess there is a balance somewhere between healthy venting of toxic emotions and letting it turn into a resentment.
Amy
I can relate to what you're saying so I'll share with you my experience with this.
My mother is an alcoholic and has been for a long time, but she can function reasonably well and doesn't think its such a problem. Sometimes I'm angry, no, furious as hell with her but other times I see myself in her, the same struggle with denial, the same despair etc. and my heart just aches for her.
Its becoming more apparent to me, though, that the issue here is more about me and wanting to shift the focus off myself. I've always found the passive stance very comfortable and only now am I realising that comfortable doesn't equal healthy, that I have choices and the direction of my focus is a decision I make. I'm usually avoiding something.
Having said that, sometimes I just need to vent some old emotions and blame certainly comes into that. I guess there is a balance somewhere between healthy venting of toxic emotions and letting it turn into a resentment.
Amy
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Hey Tick,
The truth is that we learn many behaviors from our parents. We do what they show us to do.
Your statement is true to an extent. We also come up with our own ideas as to what to do in spite of what our parents show us.
I have three kids. My youngest son, the middle child was 10 when I got sober. He endured his first ten years of life watching me and his mother drink. When my wife and I got sober, it was suggested to us that we take our kids to meetings(open)so that they'd be aquainted with AA and Al-ateen. We did. My oldest son and my daughter(who is the youngest)drink socially. My youngest son is now 38 and 15 years sober on August 3rd. We all make choices Tick. If you got the answers you want concerning your father, what good would it do you? You'd be armed with the knowledge and maybe an "I'm sorry" or two but in the end, your problem is still you and your drinking. Your Dad has nothing to do with it and can do nothing about it.
The term "tough love" was used in an earlier post. My son called me one night drunk and high asking for help. I got up at 2:00 a.m. and went to get him. We talked and I hooked him up with a young friend of mine who took my son to a meeting that night. A couple days later my son said he was find and didn't need to go to any meetings. I told him not to call me at 2:00 in the morning any more. The day he decided to get help, he turned himself and all his drugs and toys into the local police and they helped him. All during the time he was drinking and using he was welcome in our home but not until he called and he had to be straight. If he showed up drunk or high he wasn't allowed in the house. That's tough love my friend. Now ask yourself one question. If Music treats his own kid like that, should I expect any different? Obvious answer is.....NO!!
The truth is that we learn many behaviors from our parents. We do what they show us to do.
Your statement is true to an extent. We also come up with our own ideas as to what to do in spite of what our parents show us.
I have three kids. My youngest son, the middle child was 10 when I got sober. He endured his first ten years of life watching me and his mother drink. When my wife and I got sober, it was suggested to us that we take our kids to meetings(open)so that they'd be aquainted with AA and Al-ateen. We did. My oldest son and my daughter(who is the youngest)drink socially. My youngest son is now 38 and 15 years sober on August 3rd. We all make choices Tick. If you got the answers you want concerning your father, what good would it do you? You'd be armed with the knowledge and maybe an "I'm sorry" or two but in the end, your problem is still you and your drinking. Your Dad has nothing to do with it and can do nothing about it.
The term "tough love" was used in an earlier post. My son called me one night drunk and high asking for help. I got up at 2:00 a.m. and went to get him. We talked and I hooked him up with a young friend of mine who took my son to a meeting that night. A couple days later my son said he was find and didn't need to go to any meetings. I told him not to call me at 2:00 in the morning any more. The day he decided to get help, he turned himself and all his drugs and toys into the local police and they helped him. All during the time he was drinking and using he was welcome in our home but not until he called and he had to be straight. If he showed up drunk or high he wasn't allowed in the house. That's tough love my friend. Now ask yourself one question. If Music treats his own kid like that, should I expect any different? Obvious answer is.....NO!!
Do not add alcohol
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Duluth, Mn
Posts: 157
I'm not looking to place blame for my problem or distract from myself, it's just that I find myself feeling angry towards him sometimes and I'm trying to determine if my anger is justifiable or not.
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
WT
ask yourself this.... Will getting angry help anything?
Would forgiving help anything?
Even if anger is warranted, forgiveness would give better results for you.
Anger eats us up inside. Forgiveness helps us heal inside.
Letting the anger grow and exploid may feel good for a minute.
Letting the anger GO and finding forgiveness will help us feel good for a life time.
As a old comercial says.... Try it you'll like it
ask yourself this.... Will getting angry help anything?
Would forgiving help anything?
Even if anger is warranted, forgiveness would give better results for you.
Anger eats us up inside. Forgiveness helps us heal inside.
Letting the anger grow and exploid may feel good for a minute.
Letting the anger GO and finding forgiveness will help us feel good for a life time.
As a old comercial says.... Try it you'll like it
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 12,136
Hey Woodtick
I sense you have been struggling, and for that my heart goes out to you.
I too looked outside of myself and blamed my parents for how I turned out.
A counsellor I am seeing taught me how to forgive, and that's simply by
'acting as though it never happened'. My parents were definitely responsible for raising me, teaching me right from wrong, etc, but in the end, I am responsible for who I wish to become. The same is true for you. Just think of what good you might be doing for your dad as he sees you become sober, feel better about yourself, and learn how to handle life without picking up a drink. Let go of the past my friend, and be the example you wished he had been. God bless and keep coming back.
Love, Rowan
I sense you have been struggling, and for that my heart goes out to you.
I too looked outside of myself and blamed my parents for how I turned out.
A counsellor I am seeing taught me how to forgive, and that's simply by
'acting as though it never happened'. My parents were definitely responsible for raising me, teaching me right from wrong, etc, but in the end, I am responsible for who I wish to become. The same is true for you. Just think of what good you might be doing for your dad as he sees you become sober, feel better about yourself, and learn how to handle life without picking up a drink. Let go of the past my friend, and be the example you wished he had been. God bless and keep coming back.
Love, Rowan
Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Boston
Posts: 710
Originally Posted by woodtick
I'm not looking to place blame for my problem or distract from myself, it's just that I find myself feeling angry towards him sometimes and I'm trying to determine if my anger is justifiable or not.
My mother and father were both desperate alcoholics. Growing up in my house was like being in a war zone on a daily basis, literally.
When I put the booze down, it was suggested that I begin the inside work, through working the 12 Steps. I desperately wanted to get better and I learned that the booze is only a symptom. I did the inside work with my sponsor and that lead me to attending Alanon and Adult Children Of Alcoholics meetings and I began the inside work there also, with a wonderful sponsor. Today I feel this way about my mother and father and my upbringing.
My mother and father did the best they could do, with what they had to give, and what they had to give was impaired, because no one gave it to them either.
I used my mother and my father as an excuse for many years for my drinking, and what I learned is very simple..... that I had many many excuses for why I drank, my parents were just one of those excuses. There is only one valid reason why I drank, and thats because I am an alcoholic.
I would suggest that if you want to get better Woodtick, begin at the beginning with first things first... put the booze down and then begin the process of recovery. Its that simple, because if nothing changes, then nothing changes.
Do not add alcohol
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Duluth, Mn
Posts: 157
Thanks everybody.
I see the answer now. Even if I am justified to be angry with him it is in my best interest to forgive him. God will not forgive us if we don't forgive others. After all, he has done a lot to help me in life, especially recently by driving me all over northern Minnesota since I don't have a driver's license.
Serenity is what I'm after here, if I'm pissed about the past and how things could have been I will never achieve it.
I see the answer now. Even if I am justified to be angry with him it is in my best interest to forgive him. God will not forgive us if we don't forgive others. After all, he has done a lot to help me in life, especially recently by driving me all over northern Minnesota since I don't have a driver's license.
Serenity is what I'm after here, if I'm pissed about the past and how things could have been I will never achieve it.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 9
The bottom line is that you are only hurting yourself with the anger. It doesn't matter if it is justifiable or not. It hurts your recovery. I am dealling with this same issue--just dealing with my father's verbal abuse. I have to truly forgive him before I can get better. I wish there was a majic wand that could just make the forgiveness come. I am working on it though.
the girl can't help it
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: splendraville
Posts: 5,599
Woodtic-
I think it is good that you can admit to feeling the anger. Maybe you are wondering what to do with the anger.Anger is powerful energy can you use it to do more than just blame your dad?
I personally get angry at my dad still and he's been dead since '76 . I am mad cause he died so young 48 years old I am mad because he didn't take better care of himself. I use my anger to make myself take care of me to do things that help me move forward. I take the things about my dad that I liked and let them be part of me. He was so funny I still laugh at some of the things he said even on his death bed he was funny. He was so intelegent and I know he really loved me alot and he wanted me to do good. I have done some good because I was mad at him. I know he would be proud of his girl. So I used that anger to make him proud of me. I struggled thru college he died before I graduated he didn't even know I went to college. I drank my self sick for a long time and used a lot of dope I told myself I did it because he did it. I did manage to get clean and on with living.
Forgiveness is good too. Forgive doesn't mean forget it means one has chosen to no longer hang on to the wrong done to you. We are human we are not perfect . I have made so many mistakes and I have been mad at me without even knowing it at times. Sometimes I even need to forgive myself. I think it is good to admit at least to myself when I am angry cause I get over it much faster and it doesn't come out in destructive ways that hurt myself and others.
I think it is good that you can admit to feeling the anger. Maybe you are wondering what to do with the anger.Anger is powerful energy can you use it to do more than just blame your dad?
I personally get angry at my dad still and he's been dead since '76 . I am mad cause he died so young 48 years old I am mad because he didn't take better care of himself. I use my anger to make myself take care of me to do things that help me move forward. I take the things about my dad that I liked and let them be part of me. He was so funny I still laugh at some of the things he said even on his death bed he was funny. He was so intelegent and I know he really loved me alot and he wanted me to do good. I have done some good because I was mad at him. I know he would be proud of his girl. So I used that anger to make him proud of me. I struggled thru college he died before I graduated he didn't even know I went to college. I drank my self sick for a long time and used a lot of dope I told myself I did it because he did it. I did manage to get clean and on with living.
Forgiveness is good too. Forgive doesn't mean forget it means one has chosen to no longer hang on to the wrong done to you. We are human we are not perfect . I have made so many mistakes and I have been mad at me without even knowing it at times. Sometimes I even need to forgive myself. I think it is good to admit at least to myself when I am angry cause I get over it much faster and it doesn't come out in destructive ways that hurt myself and others.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Originally Posted by woodtick
Thanks everybody.
I see the answer now. Even if I am justified to be angry with him it is in my best interest to forgive him. God will not forgive us if we don't forgive others. After all, he has done a lot to help me in life, especially recently by driving me all over northern Minnesota since I don't have a driver's license.
Serenity is what I'm after here, if I'm pissed about the past and how things could have been I will never achieve it.
I see the answer now. Even if I am justified to be angry with him it is in my best interest to forgive him. God will not forgive us if we don't forgive others. After all, he has done a lot to help me in life, especially recently by driving me all over northern Minnesota since I don't have a driver's license.
Serenity is what I'm after here, if I'm pissed about the past and how things could have been I will never achieve it.
Paused
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: somewhere in PA
Posts: 4
Letting Go
I was just reading the passages relating to the children of alcoholics. I too was a child of a alcoholic parent. I did'nt know that people did'nt have to be falling down drunks, to be an alcoholic. My Mom was'nt a full fledged drinker, however she consumed enough. My Mother was very dependent on her evening cocktails. My parents were divorced since I was 7yrs. old. My Father never had a drink at home. My Mom on the other hand always had booze in the house, and drank every night. And I could'nt stand seeing her drunk, it did'nt take much either. It was the same old B.S. over and over. My Dad at least was always sober whenever he was home. I hated to ask anyone to stay overnight because I did'nt want them to see her drunk (or her stuffy, phony, pompous, so called friends). Her friends were all the country club members, most of which are all qualified alkies. I saw right through them when I was 10yrs. old. I always tried to make my home life seem so much better than it was. I felt very sad and all I wanted is to have a normal family that I could feel proud of. I must say my Dad was a great man who tried so hard to provide normalcy, he loved my Mom as a friend and no matter how he truly felt he always supported her. Giving respect was not an option it was mandatory.
And giving respect was quite a challenge at times-especially when older family friends would say," your Mom is so cool - I saw her at the bar and she actually smoked a joint with us." I did'nt want my Mom to be cool in that way - at all! She tried so hard to stay young and lost sight on the things that matter most. I don't want to go on and on about every detail, but it hurt me not to have my Mom at any PTA meetings or just being involved in any of my life. I now know how selfish this disease is, because I too became an addict. I had a lot of processing to do after I got clean, and a lot of letting go and forgiveness as well. Also, I had to ask for forgiveness for the people I hurt along the way. I now am closer to my Mom than I could have ever imagined. She is almost 7yrs. without a drink(Thank-You GOD).
Life is too short to hold on to resentment. We all make mistakes and some are just not able to admit when their wrong. I could blame my addiction on the fact that I had divorced parents, alcoholism in my home, a Grand-Father who sexually abused my Mother and tried to with me. But for what? It's not going to get me any further in my recovery or in life, I accept my parents for who they are and I take responsibility for my mistakes. When they say it's a selfish program, they are saying you need to not allow anyone or anything to get in the way of your journey through the recovery process. It's not about being a selfish person or disregaurding those in your life, it's simply selfish in the sense of not forgetting to take care of yourself and your needs. And being selfish comes into effect when someone does'nt want you to put first things first. If you are like me, I always put everyone's needs before my own. And that had to change. You need to love and respect yourself and those in your life need to understand how important it is to learn how to begin the healing process. It's something you always need to work at, the learning process is never ending. Just as I hope your happiness is.
MUCH LAUGHTER & PEACE,
ASHLOR
And giving respect was quite a challenge at times-especially when older family friends would say," your Mom is so cool - I saw her at the bar and she actually smoked a joint with us." I did'nt want my Mom to be cool in that way - at all! She tried so hard to stay young and lost sight on the things that matter most. I don't want to go on and on about every detail, but it hurt me not to have my Mom at any PTA meetings or just being involved in any of my life. I now know how selfish this disease is, because I too became an addict. I had a lot of processing to do after I got clean, and a lot of letting go and forgiveness as well. Also, I had to ask for forgiveness for the people I hurt along the way. I now am closer to my Mom than I could have ever imagined. She is almost 7yrs. without a drink(Thank-You GOD).
Life is too short to hold on to resentment. We all make mistakes and some are just not able to admit when their wrong. I could blame my addiction on the fact that I had divorced parents, alcoholism in my home, a Grand-Father who sexually abused my Mother and tried to with me. But for what? It's not going to get me any further in my recovery or in life, I accept my parents for who they are and I take responsibility for my mistakes. When they say it's a selfish program, they are saying you need to not allow anyone or anything to get in the way of your journey through the recovery process. It's not about being a selfish person or disregaurding those in your life, it's simply selfish in the sense of not forgetting to take care of yourself and your needs. And being selfish comes into effect when someone does'nt want you to put first things first. If you are like me, I always put everyone's needs before my own. And that had to change. You need to love and respect yourself and those in your life need to understand how important it is to learn how to begin the healing process. It's something you always need to work at, the learning process is never ending. Just as I hope your happiness is.
MUCH LAUGHTER & PEACE,
ASHLOR
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