desypete

how do you try and see if your being selfish over things or not ? how do you know the difference ?

for me its taken a long time to even see how selfish i am as a person, i always want to be right, i always want to be in control, but i lived my life like this all the way since i was a kid and i never knew.

this to me is why its hard work in aa and on me as a person but its well worth the efforts needed

when i did the steps it was only when i tried to do step 12 that i suddenly found out how selfish i can be
when my sponsor told me to try to go and keep someone else company for a bit of time instead of going to aa all about me and how wonderful things are for me why not try and go and help someone who is in pain ?

not a chance i would do that as its someone else in aa who can do that kind of thing : )

but when i finaly gave it a try and just asked somone how they are it was amazing just how good i felt about me and how i liked it so much that i kept on doing it over and over again
now its part of my nature to do it but it was so hard to do at the start

my own life was more important to me, what i had planned at the weekend was more important
it was all about me and how happy i can make me as i thought this was what living the program was all about lol

so how do you face your own selfishness today ?

Boleo

If there is any rationalization, justification, minimization or denial going on? It is definitely selfish.

soberlicious

I was taught that being a good person meant always putting other's needs before mine, even to my detriment. I grew up thinking that you must always say yes, you must not speak up about your own needs/wants, doing for others is how you are loved. Needless to say, this caused me a lot of problems in relationships and set me up to accept abusive situations, because I was unable to express myself and navigate through what was selfish vs. what was self-care. I saw complete self sacrifice as a virtue. I was wrong. I like the way this article describes the difference.

biminiblue

I'm with soberlicious on this one.

There is a balance, and I think men tend to be more self-involved. Women tend to be more of the caretakers. An extreme of either is unhealthy, and I struggle with balance in this area.

After years of being a doormat, I got help. Being on the other side of this now, I am much less likely to reach out blindly to those who are in "pain." Most people can yank themselves out of pain if they choose to do so. My help is much more hands-off now than it used to be and I'm a much happier person because of that.

Aellyce

To me, this question is similar to the ones about morality and ethics: what is right and wrong, and how to judge this.

I like to approach it by thinking of it as a process of cause-effect relationship chains. What would be the consequences of my actions? And what would be the consequences of the consequences? Evaluate each step.
It's a bit like the theory of Karma. I like that stuff.

jdooner

I agree with this 100%. The ism that you describe I find in being out of balance. Being a martyr is not healthy just as narcissistic characteristics are not -= both extremes.

It is my belief that most people don't want to recover. Most do not understand happiness and confuse with euphoria. Most don't know love and confuse with lust. Most do not want to change but to surround themselves with sciophants to tell them they are great and feed their ego (false sense of self). It is my opinion that this is why daily talk shows and quick fix diet plans and the pharmaceutical companies thrive in the US. Here is a magic pill to fix you. Pixy dust. Snake oil. Its a common saying in AA that the program does not work without doing the work. Recovery is tough - the toughest thing I have ever done.

Awareness to me meant waking up and realizing I did not have the answers and my way was not working and implementing real change.

Sorry if I got off topic but that is my perspective.

soberlicious

Bimini and jdooner both mentioned balance. I think that's really important.

It seems counterintuitive, but I must hold the oxygen mask to my mouth first so that I can stay alive to hold it to my children's mouths.

RobbyRobot

For me, ego equates with self, and so ego is not a negative appreciation or experience. I'm of the opinion individuals do know of love, and do know of happiness within themselves. What most people struggle with is their own selves, and not so much misunderstanding love and happiness (for example)

I believe most people don't fully mature into an accomplished individual with a healthy ego. They decide to settle. They trip over themselves to be part of the community, part of a clique, organization, society, religion, politics and so on... even if that brings failure, it still brings a sense of community albeit a negative appreciation.

Being an individual with a healthy appreciation of their own ego is not an ideal that is easily packaged sold, and so, what is easier to sell and be bought by most people is how to satisfy their base selfishness, rather than empower themselves to a better self-actualization notwithstanding whatever challenges are in their own lives.

Interesting thread.

jdooner

That is balance SL. Your of no use to anyone incapacitated. Altruism does not mean being in a point where you are of no service.

I agree Robby - you remind me I should not generalize. Sometime I do so to articulate a point using extremes but in doing so the position is often vulnerable and weak to criticism. I agree with your comments.

Tamerua

I'm with Bimini, I think that men are taught as children to be and look out for #1 and women are taught that they will be caretakers when they have a husband and children. Of course that isn't everyone but my experience.

I can say that recovery taught me a lot about boundaries and standing up for myself, which puts me in a healthier place to help others.

RobbyRobot

I think the gender role card is just more rhetoric to yet again seek causation for obvious inequalities experienced by BOTH genders in todays societies. When we attempt to reconcile our differences, we do better to appreciate just how juvenile and inadequately established authorities have historically subjugated both genders. I believe there is much more relativity to one's personal experiences as an individual which informs them rather than whatever gender they may happen to be...

biminiblue

Yes. I think love and happiness and boundaries and self-protection are all different spots on the circle. They are all necessary and are all just as important as the other.

Love is the disease and love is the cure. Love sought is the sickness. Love freely given is the cure.

There is a point of boundary between you and I. I can offer you love but cannot expect anything back. I can share my experience, but not think you need to follow me. I can help myself and live as an example. I can walk beside you but not carry you. God carries me and everyone else. We are all worthy of happiness - no, we are worthy of joy. I am responsible for my own joy, sharing it and living it. Daily I pray for guidance and daily I seek it. I raise the positive energy of all by being in the solution and not in the problem.

I no longer ask "Why?" I ask, "How?"