agree or disagree?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by Anoronha 
I TRY REAL HARD to not manipulate anymore so far so good I hope.
figger that out and you will know how letting go of manipulation will come.
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 464
Originally Posted by tomsteve
im gonna say it like I read it, anoronha.. I also believe yer now lookin for what you want to hear and not what ya need to hear.
taking meetings to jail is good. taking the solution to jail meetings is good, but taking your problems to jail meetings?what kind of solution do you think yer gonna get from people behind bars? "have a drink and smoke a fatty!!"that was the solution I heard a few times at jail meetings from inmates when others brought up there problems.
I see nothing wrong,though, with sharing problems and how the program helped me with the solution. taking the same problem to meeting after meeting,though, is someone lookin for what they want to hear and not what they need to hear.
its all in the motives, which just so happens theres sumthin in the steps about continueing to take personal inventory, which isn't a once a day thing. it works real well for me when I have a choice to make.
as far as your sponsor, I would strongly suggest NOT firing her. you want to grow. you want to get healthier. that aint gonna work too good if ya sponsorshop.
ya don't have to agree with everything your sponsor says. its ok to agree to disagree. hell, theres been times me and my sponsor( who has 30 years) have disagreed, and its just not when it was about solutions to my problems. it has been about his his,too.
both of us, even after initially agreeing to disagree on a matter, have occasionally ended up talkin and sayin,'ya know, you were right" which I can occasionally throw in,'ya *****." kind of my way of sometimes sayin thank you.
its pretty nice to take a problem to meetings, but I have found that it helps me to get out of myself and my problems at meetings. leave them at the door and do what I can to help someone else.
taking meetings to jail is good. taking the solution to jail meetings is good, but taking your problems to jail meetings?what kind of solution do you think yer gonna get from people behind bars? "have a drink and smoke a fatty!!"that was the solution I heard a few times at jail meetings from inmates when others brought up there problems.
I see nothing wrong,though, with sharing problems and how the program helped me with the solution. taking the same problem to meeting after meeting,though, is someone lookin for what they want to hear and not what they need to hear.
its all in the motives, which just so happens theres sumthin in the steps about continueing to take personal inventory, which isn't a once a day thing. it works real well for me when I have a choice to make.
as far as your sponsor, I would strongly suggest NOT firing her. you want to grow. you want to get healthier. that aint gonna work too good if ya sponsorshop.
ya don't have to agree with everything your sponsor says. its ok to agree to disagree. hell, theres been times me and my sponsor( who has 30 years) have disagreed, and its just not when it was about solutions to my problems. it has been about his his,too.
both of us, even after initially agreeing to disagree on a matter, have occasionally ended up talkin and sayin,'ya know, you were right" which I can occasionally throw in,'ya *****." kind of my way of sometimes sayin thank you.
its pretty nice to take a problem to meetings, but I have found that it helps me to get out of myself and my problems at meetings. leave them at the door and do what I can to help someone else.
Grateful
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 1,763
Anoronha,
You have talked recently about creating drama and have identified it as attention seeking behavior. You have started 5 threads in the last 4 days.
1st thread: "screwed up and lost sponsor..."
2nd thread: "What I have come to realize"
3rd thread: "feel like being disloyal to old sponsor"
4th thread: "engaging in attention seeking behavior"
5th thread: "agree or disagree?"
Here is what you have said about your new sponsor in each thread:
1st thread: "I asked this girl to be my temporary sponsor because she is always brutally honest with me and others and knows the big book so well and the steps. I need a tough ass for a sponsor."
2nd thread: "I feel hopeful and excited for a change I just had a long chat with new sponsor."
3rd thread: " Part of me feels happy I have a new sponsor and super blessed. I like her a lot she tells it like it is and calls me out on my ********."
4th thread: "My sponsor pointed out to me my attention seeking behavior. She told me she was a single mom and very busy and she will take me through the steps if I was serious about them."
5th thread: "I disagreed with her in a respectful way but told her I was considering what she said."
I'm just going to say what I am seeing in your pattern of threads and posts Anoronha. I see that you have identified that you like to create drama as a means of attention seeking, and I also see that you are continuing in the same behavior today. I would give this sponsor a chance -- from what you have said about her she sounds like a good sponsor. She also sounds like she is doing what you yourself said you needed -- being a "tough ass sponsor" who "tells it like it is" and "calls you out on your ********". I'm not trying to be mean spirited here but honestly trying to point this out as a concerned observer.
You have talked recently about creating drama and have identified it as attention seeking behavior. You have started 5 threads in the last 4 days.
1st thread: "screwed up and lost sponsor..."
2nd thread: "What I have come to realize"
3rd thread: "feel like being disloyal to old sponsor"
4th thread: "engaging in attention seeking behavior"
5th thread: "agree or disagree?"
Here is what you have said about your new sponsor in each thread:
1st thread: "I asked this girl to be my temporary sponsor because she is always brutally honest with me and others and knows the big book so well and the steps. I need a tough ass for a sponsor."
2nd thread: "I feel hopeful and excited for a change I just had a long chat with new sponsor."
3rd thread: " Part of me feels happy I have a new sponsor and super blessed. I like her a lot she tells it like it is and calls me out on my ********."
4th thread: "My sponsor pointed out to me my attention seeking behavior. She told me she was a single mom and very busy and she will take me through the steps if I was serious about them."
5th thread: "I disagreed with her in a respectful way but told her I was considering what she said."
I'm just going to say what I am seeing in your pattern of threads and posts Anoronha. I see that you have identified that you like to create drama as a means of attention seeking, and I also see that you are continuing in the same behavior today. I would give this sponsor a chance -- from what you have said about her she sounds like a good sponsor. She also sounds like she is doing what you yourself said you needed -- being a "tough ass sponsor" who "tells it like it is" and "calls you out on your ********". I'm not trying to be mean spirited here but honestly trying to point this out as a concerned observer.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by Anoronha
I don't really share in meetings unless I am called on but I try and share what works for me. Or if I don't have anything to say on the topic I where I am at in a positive way.
ya say ya share what works for you, but im wonderin if that's really true. I say that for a simple reason-how often do you do that here? how often do you post in threads not started by you?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,949
look I don't know if you are just looking for people to "yes" you with telling half-truths but as far as going to the jail for meetings..If you are running them you know there is a
certain way you should conduct yourself..it's a good place to be because you see life right in front of you..not much bs in a jailhouse AA..at least I would gather. you can get out of your head and put you own problems into perspective at the same time experiencing empathy for a demographic that most people couldn't give a dam for...
certain way you should conduct yourself..it's a good place to be because you see life right in front of you..not much bs in a jailhouse AA..at least I would gather. you can get out of your head and put you own problems into perspective at the same time experiencing empathy for a demographic that most people couldn't give a dam for...
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Originally Posted by nandm
I have found that I prefer meetings that are solution oriented rather than just bitch/whine sessions. I came to AA for solutions not to find more problems. What I found was that although I found a solution for my drinking problem life still went on and sometimes rough patches hit but if I apply the Steps and Principles of the program I can find a solution to those problems without going out and drinking at them.
Beginners meetings, which I still attend, are a different animal, and most groups give beginners a lot of leeway, which I believe they should.
And that's all I have to say about this.
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
I've needed to switch up on my meetings at times because I hear a lot of people complaining about their wives/husbands, girlfriends/boyfriends, their children, their jobs, and their boredom.
I secretary a beginner's meeting on Saturday. Most of the attendees are women from the shelter across the street or from the local rehab. I try to stay in the solution and in the steps because let's face it I don't have problems nowadays just inconveniences.
Sharing that my lawn mower broke or that my boss hurt my feelings because he did not notify me of a schedule change with a woman who is straight off the streets and struggling to stay off booze and crack would be grotesque.
Secretarying the meeting keeps me sober not because of what I share but because I am working the 12th step:
Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 132
Since you asked for opinion.
Settle down. Take a breath. Determine for yourself are you going to WORK with this new sponsor.
If so, do what she suggests. Work your steps. When you do a 12 step meeting at a jail...share the solution and keep your personal issues for your home group.
Listen and learn. Listen and learn. Try not to argue in your head with what others are saying, including your sponsor. Listen, let it sink in. Let go the need to respond, argue and all of that. You don't have to jump to a conclusion about your self or anyone else.
This is what a program is for, to learn, to grow you don't have to have it all figured out yesterday, have some patience with yourself, others and your Higher Power.
Settle down. Take a breath. Determine for yourself are you going to WORK with this new sponsor.
If so, do what she suggests. Work your steps. When you do a 12 step meeting at a jail...share the solution and keep your personal issues for your home group.
Listen and learn. Listen and learn. Try not to argue in your head with what others are saying, including your sponsor. Listen, let it sink in. Let go the need to respond, argue and all of that. You don't have to jump to a conclusion about your self or anyone else.
This is what a program is for, to learn, to grow you don't have to have it all figured out yesterday, have some patience with yourself, others and your Higher Power.
A Day at a Time
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 6,435
Originally Posted by MIRecovery
How my words effect others new or old, good or bad is in God's hands. I belive all words spoken from the heart will find the person that needs to hear them. New commers are not the only people who struggle and I have been told by many wise people to bring my problems to the tables
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: liverpool, england
Posts: 1,708
Originally Posted by Anoronha
My sponsor and I talked today and she told me that meetings were not for me at all but the newcomer only and that I shouldn't talk about my problems at all just the solution. Tthat going to the jails to take meetings in was not about me should only share the solution not my problems. I disagreed with her in a respectful way but told her I was considering what she said. I believe that meetings are for both me and the newcomers. That it is ok to share where you are at and your problems briefly and the solution as well or ask for help when you need it. I also believe that it makes me feel better about myself when I go to the jails it makes me feel better about myself when I feel I have helped someone. Maybe my thinking is completely wrong but this is how I feel. So please share your opinions here greatly interested. My sponsor got upset with me when I shared my opinions. She said I was being selfcentered in my thinking which may be true.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by desypete
get a new sponsor someone who is open minded and not so single track minded would be my advice to you, this person sounds like someone whos only interest in you is controlling you to do it there way
"I need a tough ass for a sponsor."
has stated a few times( in one way or another) she needs and wants someone that is tough and call her out.
imo it would be insane to get a new sponsor after 5 days. wont have much growth sponsorshopping.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: liverpool, england
Posts: 1,708
Originally Posted by tomsteve
new sponsor on 6/17 ish and anoronha stated in another thead:
"I need a tough ass for a sponsor."
has stated a few times( in one way or another) she needs and wants someone that is tough and call her out.
imo it would be insane to get a new sponsor after 5 days. wont have much growth sponsorshopping.
"I need a tough ass for a sponsor."
has stated a few times( in one way or another) she needs and wants someone that is tough and call her out.
imo it would be insane to get a new sponsor after 5 days. wont have much growth sponsorshopping.
i would call this sponsor out big time as there trying to dictate what can or can not be said in an aa meeting
who on earth does this sponsor think they are ?
to the op
go to your meetings and share what ever you feel you need to share
if anyone tells you that you shouldnt share then please tell them to contact aa gso and ask them what can be shared or not in a meeting
and if your in a meeting that is full of this sponsor type of member then find different meetings to get out of these people clutches
there are good aa memebers who are around and there only interest would be in you and trying to help you and not trying to bully you into there way of doing things
makes my blood boil when i hear of people trying to manipulate new comers in this way
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
not seein how tellin someone what they should or shouldn't do is manipulative. to me its good sponsorship and to me the motive is in the right spot. im guessin this new sponsor has been at meetings and has a lil history of the behavior being displayed and the motive is in the right place.
seems OP is even thinkin sponsor could be right.
I used to play that crap of contacting gso on this that and the other. even runnin around askin others about things my sponsor told me I should do- tellin me my thinkin was all jacked up and what I should do about it.to. it was all an ego trip for me to go back and say,"ha! your wrong!" which I was met quite often with,"ok, so now what? go ahead and keep on doin what yer doin and let me know when it hurts enough. then maybe you'll have some humility to try what ive done and works real good."
also learned respect for those that went before me.
personally I think a problem with AA is sponsors that don't call out sponsees and just let the sponsee wander. the rates of people getting sober and mainting that sobriety early on was pretty high. one of the first 100 member said,"in those days we took each others inventory firmly and often."
but opinions vary. greatful to have mine. greatful for the ones that went before me that didn't baby me and told me how it was without any sugarcoating. that woulda buried me.
seems OP is even thinkin sponsor could be right.
I used to play that crap of contacting gso on this that and the other. even runnin around askin others about things my sponsor told me I should do- tellin me my thinkin was all jacked up and what I should do about it.to. it was all an ego trip for me to go back and say,"ha! your wrong!" which I was met quite often with,"ok, so now what? go ahead and keep on doin what yer doin and let me know when it hurts enough. then maybe you'll have some humility to try what ive done and works real good."
also learned respect for those that went before me.
personally I think a problem with AA is sponsors that don't call out sponsees and just let the sponsee wander. the rates of people getting sober and mainting that sobriety early on was pretty high. one of the first 100 member said,"in those days we took each others inventory firmly and often."
but opinions vary. greatful to have mine. greatful for the ones that went before me that didn't baby me and told me how it was without any sugarcoating. that woulda buried me.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Huntington Woods, Michigan
Posts: 465
In principle I understand what your sponsors point is. But I don't take that in an absolute sense. Meetings are not dumping grounds for my problems nor are they for me to make the meeting about me and my issue even when asking for help at said meeting.
But, how can I talk about how I'm applying spiritual principles to my life situation if I don't tell you what my life situation is?
"The sole purpose of an aa meeting is the teaching and practice of the twelve steps"- aa cofounder Bill Wilson.
But, how can I talk about how I'm applying spiritual principles to my life situation if I don't tell you what my life situation is?
"The sole purpose of an aa meeting is the teaching and practice of the twelve steps"- aa cofounder Bill Wilson.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
I was recently a Secretary in a meeting that is a low sobriety meeting. There are lots of legit struggles with people staying sober and who are new to the rooms.
There is one person who continues to go out. Every meeting is Day One. Every share is about how glad they are to be there, they drank last night, they can't put any days together, and then some story about some mundane event that is told in the meandering disjointed voice of the still suffering. You know the voice...it makes no sense and jumps from subject to subject and is full of minute details ad infinitum. I have listened to this person for months. Well, when they show at all. This past week I stopped them in the middle of one of these soliloquies and asked if this had anything to do with not drinking.
It is more important to hear from the person who is at least attempting to figure it out than the person who is just lonely and wants to talk about the color of their curtains. The two people who had not shared yet are very new and very timid. If I had not stopped the "story" those two would have not had time to share, and they actually shared about their struggle - not a ten minute talk about which plant it is that grows in the pond.
The one I cut off is not happy with me. Oh well.
There is one person who continues to go out. Every meeting is Day One. Every share is about how glad they are to be there, they drank last night, they can't put any days together, and then some story about some mundane event that is told in the meandering disjointed voice of the still suffering. You know the voice...it makes no sense and jumps from subject to subject and is full of minute details ad infinitum. I have listened to this person for months. Well, when they show at all. This past week I stopped them in the middle of one of these soliloquies and asked if this had anything to do with not drinking.
It is more important to hear from the person who is at least attempting to figure it out than the person who is just lonely and wants to talk about the color of their curtains. The two people who had not shared yet are very new and very timid. If I had not stopped the "story" those two would have not had time to share, and they actually shared about their struggle - not a ten minute talk about which plant it is that grows in the pond.
The one I cut off is not happy with me. Oh well.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: liverpool, england
Posts: 1,708
Originally Posted by biminiblue
I was recently a Secretary in a meeting that is a low sobriety meeting. There are lots of legit struggles with people staying sober and who are new to the rooms.
There is one person who continues to go out. Every meeting is Day One. Every share is about how glad they are to be there, they drank last night, they can't put any days together, and then some story about some mundane event that is told in the meandering disjointed voice of the still suffering. You know the voice...it makes no sense and jumps from subject to subject and is full of minute details ad infinitum. I have listened to this person for months. Well, when they show at all. This past week I stopped them in the middle of one of these soliloquies and asked if this had anything to do with not drinking.
It is more important to hear from the person who is at least attempting to figure it out than the person who is just lonely and wants to talk about the color of their curtains. The two people who had not shared yet are very new and very timid. If I had not stopped the "story" those two would have not had time to share, and they actually shared about their struggle - not a ten minute talk about which plant it is that grows in the pond.
The one I cut off is not happy with me. Oh well.
There is one person who continues to go out. Every meeting is Day One. Every share is about how glad they are to be there, they drank last night, they can't put any days together, and then some story about some mundane event that is told in the meandering disjointed voice of the still suffering. You know the voice...it makes no sense and jumps from subject to subject and is full of minute details ad infinitum. I have listened to this person for months. Well, when they show at all. This past week I stopped them in the middle of one of these soliloquies and asked if this had anything to do with not drinking.
It is more important to hear from the person who is at least attempting to figure it out than the person who is just lonely and wants to talk about the color of their curtains. The two people who had not shared yet are very new and very timid. If I had not stopped the "story" those two would have not had time to share, and they actually shared about their struggle - not a ten minute talk about which plant it is that grows in the pond.
The one I cut off is not happy with me. Oh well.
it has no set rules of what can be shared other than experience and by sharing that experience with new comers your passing on the identification they will need to make there own minds up if there like you or not, if there an alcoholic or not
there is no other way anyone can identify if there an alcoholic or not other than getting identification
i am not going to identify with an alcoholic who doesn't drink anymore but gets on his hands and knees each day and hallelujah he doesn't drink anymore
now put me in a room with someone who tells it like is and how there last drinking days were like and i am going to listen
if they drank like me i am going to be even more interested
the seed are then sown in my eyes i can then offer a hand of friendship that may or may not be taken and help if i can
i dont want to take ownership of new comers there free to choose what ever way they want to
and i dont take ownership of aa rooms either hence we have so many different format types of meetings as not everyone agrees with me like i dont agree with them
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
A while ago I was sitting with a fellow alcoholic and we were sharing about how terrible our lives were. We had a lot of common experience. We had both had trouble with relationships and our exs weren't treating us too well. Employers were just as bad, not to mention the government. Then I got started on parents, oh you wouldn't beleive the problems I have had as a direct result of their action.
We so related to each other it was amazing. Every problem I had, he had had the same thing, sometimes worse. I was just getting worked up about the poor way the justice system had been treating me when he went silent.
I looked at him and asked "what's wrong?" "Nothing' he said, "I just forgot, whose turn is it to buy the next round, yours or mine?"
We so related to each other it was amazing. Every problem I had, he had had the same thing, sometimes worse. I was just getting worked up about the poor way the justice system had been treating me when he went silent.
I looked at him and asked "what's wrong?" "Nothing' he said, "I just forgot, whose turn is it to buy the next round, yours or mine?"
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: liverpool, england
Posts: 1,708
Originally Posted by Gottalife
A while ago I was sitting with a fellow alcoholic and we were sharing about how terrible our lives were. We had a lot of common experience. We had both had trouble with relationships and our exs weren't treating us too well. Employers were just as bad, not to mention the government. Then I got started on parents, oh you wouldn't beleive the problems I have had as a direct result of their action.
We so related to each other it was amazing. Every problem I had, he had had the same thing, sometimes worse. I was just getting worked up about the poor way the justice system had been treating me when he went silent.
I looked at him and asked "what's wrong?" "Nothing' he said, "I just forgot, whose turn is it to buy the next round, yours or mine?"
We so related to each other it was amazing. Every problem I had, he had had the same thing, sometimes worse. I was just getting worked up about the poor way the justice system had been treating me when he went silent.
I looked at him and asked "what's wrong?" "Nothing' he said, "I just forgot, whose turn is it to buy the next round, yours or mine?"
the riddles part of the game i stopped playing years ago as i was just fed up of trying to a smart arse lol
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