Soberpotamus

I posted this in Alcoholism instead of 12 Step Support because I'd like responses from non-12 Steppers as well...

Since it's Father's Day, it's heavy on my mind whether to have contact with family again. And whether there's a "right" time. I just don't feel ready to see my dad or grandfather yet. I don't even feel like talking on the phone with them. Instead, I feel anger, guilt, and sadness. I'm sad because I know they're probably hurt I didn't call. I did send them cards, at least.

My husband asks me at least once per week when I want to go see them. And if I've talked to them lately. He pretty much knows the answer. It's his way of pushing me. I know it's not his place to do so. And I remind him of that. Most times I just answer "no" but sometimes we argue. Just so tired of it.

I'm on Step 4 of the 12 Steps. I'm approaching 450 days sober. Just for reference point, for the 12 Steppers. Again, I appreciate responses from non-steppers and steppers alike. AA and non-AA.

I would prefer to keep things as simple as I can, and wait until the 9th Step (Amends) to approach them again. I just don't trust myself to act from a place of pure motivations yet, does this make sense? I mean, I think I could handle being around them (because goodness knows, I allowed their guilt trips in the past to override my own feelings and wishes the majority of the time), but I want to be around them only because I WANT to. Not from a sense of duty, or guilt.

And I want to be able to let them be them... quirks and dysfunction and all, and not try to manipulate, get angry, go silent on them in effort to "deal", etc... I value myself more than that now. I don't want to have to hunker down around them and "survive" the ordeal. (In my past, I'd drink as soon as I could get alcohol, after a family visit.)

There's just so much backstory, I wouldn't know where to begin to describe the dysfunction in my family, lol. And, besides, I'm sure many of you can relate.

Any advice, suggestions? Thanks.

Dee74

I think you're the best judge of whats good for you Jennie.
If you've decided not to go, be ok with that decision. I think it's valid.

D

zjw

Its tough without the back story per say but I've been in a situation where i've felt the need to push my wife as i dont want her to ruin what shes got by keeping a distance. At the same time I have my own issues where I tend to like to keep people and family members in a little box only to take them out and deal with them when i can then i like to put them back in the box on the shelf again and be left alone. I know my family wants to spend more time etc.. and in my wifes case its simlier. But for me I can only handle so much and quite honestly I sometimes think of walking away from them (the extended family not my immediate ones wife and kids) I just dont have much patience left.

So I can relate. You have to do whats best for you. I wouldnt want to make matters any worse then they are. But I know in my case its like the box on the hself in the closet once in a while you take it down mess with the contents then you put it back till you feel like dealing witht hat again. Thats how it is for me anyhow.

its hard on everyone cause things cant seem to be ideal but they are how they are. and in there on dysfunctional way they are somehow functional if that can be possible.

CodeJob

Well the rabbit is dancing on your tag line. I agree with that.

But it is your choice.

silentrun

I just don't trust myself to act from a place of pure motivations yet, does this make sense?
It makes a lot of sense. It sounds incredibly self aware to me.

zjw

said like that it makes more sense to me if you have to question your motivations then yeah i'd hold out make sure your doing things for the right reasons first.

Cow

#1 is do whatever you has to do to stays sober and continue to progress and get well and only you can know and decides that and must be firm about that and too bad if others not understand cuz is total job 1, right?

#2 is see #1

#3 is, if at some point you think you maybe using addiction issue to avoid certain aspect of you life, you maybe can seek safe objective counsel for that and work through.

bigsombrero

Not ready = not ready. Don't worry about rushing yourself, this isn't a contest and it's not a race. Do what's right for you, right now.

Tamerua

congrats on the sober time!

I think that it was incredibly thoughtful of you to send cards, some don't even bother with that. You will know when you're ready, sometimes dealing with family is extremely painful.

Verte

Giving yourself the time to sift and sort through emotions is an excellent choice. Not reaching out in a superficially beneficial manner is a brave thing to do, given that there is purpose and not simply omission [...interaction means something to you and is much more than a 'Hallmark' moment].

Stepping out of any dysfunctional circle is upsetting to all the players and can be quite unsettling to you, as you already know. It is a bold statement. This also allows your father and Grandfather the opportunity to acknowledge or ignore the purpose and intent of your 'silence'. Are they aware of the dysfunction? Have they responded in any manner?

Time may just allow you the opportunity to give voice to the emotions you are currently experiencing. My vote is to move forward, remain thoughtful and not return to the circle of dysfunction. No sense in just 'surviving' your life when you can be 'thriving'.

Hope this makes sense...it is the early morning once again for me. Pats on the back and hugs to you, Soberjennie.

awuh1

This is difficult, I know. I have shared some my own personnel experience of this with you in the past.

I suggest that you have some personnel contact. Not much, but a little. A short phone call perhaps. Something that has the bare minimum of a chance for you to feel overwhelmed.

Don't do it out of a sense of duty. Don't do it out of a sense of guilt. Do it to express the symbol of that space between the hands of your avatar.

Do it because it is difficult, and because it is not for yourself. It will be that much more meaningful as a result.

GracieLou

If you are not ready, then you are not ready. Simple.

There are many things I want to be able to do but I am simply not ready. I have went through the same soul searching. Is it fear of the uncomfortable? Am I just being difficult? Stubborn? Angry? Resentful?

Sometimes it is one of these and sometimes it is all of them. Lately I am starting to see how fearful I am of certain things and someone is pushing me and it makes me angry.

Don't let anyone else push you and don't push yourself to hard. It is okay to wait a day, a week or a month to make a decision. There is no rule that says you have to do anything at a specific time. Do what it right for you.

Soberpotamus

I'm sure on some level they are aware of the dysfunction in the family, yes. And over the years, my Dad has apologized for some things, and my grandfather has expressed feelings of guilt, etc.

My father actually called last night. I didn't hear the phone ring, and so there's a voicemail left for me on my cell phone that I haven't checked yet. I'm guessing he called to let me know he got his card in the mail, which I appreciate.

Yesterday, my husband called my grandfather just to touch base, and to talk "fishing" stuff with him briefly. As soon as I heard his voice, I felt the stomach knots and heavy stomach, dropping sensation... all that. So literally, in my gut I felt blocked. I listened to the conversation as it played out... (my husband meant for me to, I wasn't eavesdropping), and what I heard was this: My husband told him many times that I had quit drinking, I was sober, drinking seems to be a thing of the past, we're doing great, etc... every time my grandfather would respond negatively... comparing me to my mother (who died of a drug overdose in 2010, btw), told my husband I was bipolar (I'm not) and needed medicine... even asked him if I was taking my medicine (I haven't taken psychotropics in over 15 years)??, and just went on and on slamming me.

What I think is going on here is that he is using my past to push me away. My grandfather is petty, blaming, crazy-making, and sometimes mean. He's also fearful, angry, poor pitiful me, selfish, etc. None of this new to me. But seeing it in action after no contact for a while... it's much more clear now how he operates, and how the family played into it all.

The only real interest he seemed to show was when my husband told him I'm writing a book. I heard his voice change and I recognized that he probably was wondering if I'm writing about the family (which I'm not... but they would assume so, since they're narcissists).

On the last trip home, my grandfather mentioned that I seemed wiser. I called him several times since and we've tried to visit a few times. He has made excuses. I'm guessing that he is finally pushing me away at the end of his life. He probably thinks I don't "need" him anymore (which means you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours in our family, I'll tell you what you want to hear as long as you give me what I want, etc... he enabled my mom to her grave this way), nor do I need the rest of the family (their invalidations, insults, ignoring my accomplishments, etc). And I guess they don't need me (because I don't suck up to them). So, they don't want me around. I think he is using my marriage (married in 2011), and my "growing up" since getting sober, to distance himself. I know this sounds absurd to some of you, but I hope and think that some of you will get it.

This family is just nuts (I was ignored when I did good and accomplished great things, and then my weaknesses and defects were focused on and magnified... that seemed to be the family code). I left and cut off contact with them once and for all in 2003 when we buried my grandmother. I only saw my grandfather after that. On average, once per year. So, since my mother died in 2010, the contact is less and less with him.

He told my husband I can't handle things, I'm crazy, I need to "quit that drinking" even though I've been quit now for over a year (I really don't know if he thinks we're lying or if he can't handle that I'm finally sober??). It seems he needs to justify pushing me away. We tried to visit him and just keep getting excuses. So I guess that means it's all over. I'm going to stay away now, and just let my husband deal with him on the phone.

As for my Dad, I'm sure that he wants to see me. I just get tired of it always being about him. He has never even come to see my house. I bought my first house in 2009, and he's never been here. So I guess I feel everything is once sided with him. It's hard to have a conversation and let him know how I'm doing because he interrupts, finishes my sentences, and projects. This is nothing new. He's always been this way. He is very controlling and I doubt he even realizes it. He is afraid to hear the truth. He is afraid of what I'll say. Because he knows I am real. Though he doesn't really know me.

My grandfather has said many times that I'm abrasive and I've pushed the family away. What this actually means is that I see the truth. I see the roles that are being played and refuse to play into them. And ironically, he only started saying this AFTER I quit arguing and playing into the games. Now that I'm really "gone" I guess he feels guilty. I didn't push the family away, I left them! I'm no longer "abrasive" to them because I never talk to them. So, in their minds, they want to see me in this way... abrasive, deserter, betrayer, and crazy drinker. (Keep in mind both my aunt and uncle are closet alcoholics, and my grandfather was a raging alcoholic until his early 40s, lol). Now that the black sheep is dead (my mom, the one who was "the worst" of all and everyone focused on), I'm guessing it's all been shifted onto me?

Enough. I've written too much already. Just sickens me to even give them any thought anymore.

LeTheVerte, yes you did make perfect sense. Thanks.

And thanks to all who responded. Just helps saying it and being heard.

EndGameNYC

Sounds like an exquisite analysis that includes a great depth of understanding on your part.

Your family is clearly functioning in deep denial, perhaps the only thing keeping them "together." What some people may not know is that denial is not absolute, and that in order for denial to exist and to "work," there must also be present a level of acknowledgement that something is terribly wrong. The deeper or stronger is the emotional wound we are protecting, the more defensive ("in denial") we become. The overriding defense in denial is against change ever occurring and the truth never being told.

Soberpotamus

One more thing... what gripes me the most (and hurts) is that my grandfather (or someone, possibly my aunt) got rid of my mom's stack of personal journals she kept in the closet in his house. After she died, I went back to get them. All but one were gone. I'm guessing he hid them from me because he doesn't want me to know anything more. This nearly devastates me on some level. I'm a writer. I feel no one deserves those journals more than I do, as I'm her only child. I feel they betrayed me by taking them.

I really just needed to type that out. It makes me so angry to know they're gone. That I'll never read them.

Verte

Hiya Soberjennie,

My heart aches for you, but in a good way. The ache comes from understanding what it means to stand on the outside. The ache of tacitly declaring that 'your story is not my story'. And if someone chooses not to listen or take part in your truth then he will die without truly knowing who you are...is this not an ultimate loss? This is one of those situations where one has no control over another's response and risks feeling further on the periphery. Knowing that it is not possible to return to the way things were.

No child requests to be brought into this world having to spend vital energy learning to survive through dysfunction. It requires a lot of energy to see both clearly and in each skewed manner of the family. Growing up means that we have to decide where the balance of energy expenditure lies (in my humble experience).

Declaring that you will not take part is a way of preserving the wish to thrive during this lifetime...if only to see clearly, heal, and *truly* be at peace. It can initially feel terribly isolating but then liberating because it is an excellent step towards understanding your self. Kind of like booting the bottle, eh?

The loss of your Mom's journals is truly devastating. Writing journals was perhaps proof-positive that she struggled to see her truth as well. Being determined to write your own life within the given circumstances is one way to approach the loss. Nice job on a year of sobriety as well! Good work Soberjennie - from one human to another
***Thanks for putting yourself out there. Your thought process helped me see something today that I needed to see.

Soberpotamus

Yes, she surely did struggle to do this. She inspired me in this way my whole life. She showed some real strengths in our family. I personally think she was the most loving member of the family. And the most emotionally expressive. And so was punished for that by the rest of them.

Soberpotamus

I'm glad it helped

GracieLou

My mother kept some journals too and I have no desire to read them. She told me once that I should never read them because if I did then I would know why she hates me so much.

I am hoping she moves out soon and I never seen them. I was curious, well more than curious, I was angry. I wanted to know what she wrote so I could defend myself and justify if necessary.

It was one of my resentments and I felt I had to live with it until I was able to read them. It always felt like it was lurking in the darkness. I had to let it go.

I asked myself, in the grand scheme of things, how important is it? Do I want to live with that until she dies only to be torn up all over again. I don't.

Try to let it go. Make peace with it and move on. Remember forgiveness is not do much for the other person but for you.

matt4x4

We alcoholics who are in our cups (drinking) are not ready to be apart of life.
Life happens, we must learn to deal with it without drinking.
Otherwise you will keep blaming everything else.
Feeling pressured, feeling this, feeling that.

Ok so you want to change the way you feel about this that or the other thing, drinking does that and it does it quickly, we have learned this time and time again. That is one option that we alcoholics know quite well.

There are however countless other options to use, that do not include mind altering substances.