Confused...
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New England
Posts: 1,926
Confused...
AA or not? Pros & cons?
I like the idea of being around other alcoholics that "understand" but it can get really depressing. I hate that I have to say "my name is xxx and I'm an alcoholic" all the time. There is such a stigma.
Really? We are constitutionally incapable of being honest with ourselves? It's attraction rather than promotion but we are "anonymous" so how are we supposed to "attract people"? And if we get sober without AA we will be "restless, irritable & discontent" for the rest of our lives!
Moreover....if we stop going to AA, we will die or end up in jail? I'm confused.
Please...would LOVE pros & cons. I am keeping an open mind.
Thx!
Sent from my iPhone using SoberRecovery
I like the idea of being around other alcoholics that "understand" but it can get really depressing. I hate that I have to say "my name is xxx and I'm an alcoholic" all the time. There is such a stigma.
Really? We are constitutionally incapable of being honest with ourselves? It's attraction rather than promotion but we are "anonymous" so how are we supposed to "attract people"? And if we get sober without AA we will be "restless, irritable & discontent" for the rest of our lives!
Moreover....if we stop going to AA, we will die or end up in jail? I'm confused.
Please...would LOVE pros & cons. I am keeping an open mind.
Thx!
Sent from my iPhone using SoberRecovery
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,369
If you no longer feel AA is for you, there's a lot of other alternatives:
Here's some links to some of the main players, including but not limited to AA:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...formation.html
I recommend you visit the Secular Connections forum if you think you may benefit from a non 12 step approach.
I remember you used to be positively, even passionately AA tho.
Do you blame AA for you drinking again?
D
Here's some links to some of the main players, including but not limited to AA:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...formation.html
I recommend you visit the Secular Connections forum if you think you may benefit from a non 12 step approach.
I remember you used to be positively, even passionately AA tho.
Do you blame AA for you drinking again?
D
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
Anonymity isn't related to the attraction or promotion principle, they are two different issues. There is nothing in AA literature that says AA is the only way.
The restless, irritable and discontent reference isn't about AA, it is about how we are in active drinking.
I am sure another debate is going to build up steam here about AA, but will it really help you make your choice?
the thread will inevitably be hijacked and get lost in the endless pro and anti AA debate.
You yourself are the best source of information for making this choice, based on how you feel after going to a meeting.
The restless, irritable and discontent reference isn't about AA, it is about how we are in active drinking.
I am sure another debate is going to build up steam here about AA, but will it really help you make your choice?
the thread will inevitably be hijacked and get lost in the endless pro and anti AA debate.
You yourself are the best source of information for making this choice, based on how you feel after going to a meeting.
One Day At A Time
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 561
My view of AA is 'take what you need and leave the rest.'
I had a talent of trying to complicate everything in my life, including AA. At one point questioned every single thing in the fellowship and got too bogged down with all that. Now I keep my AA simple.
Works for some, doesn't for others. No two journeys are the same.
I had a talent of trying to complicate everything in my life, including AA. At one point questioned every single thing in the fellowship and got too bogged down with all that. Now I keep my AA simple.
Works for some, doesn't for others. No two journeys are the same.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bklyn. NY
Posts: 1,859
First, the constiutionaly incapable of being honest thing is in reference to certain people. Not all alcoholics. How it works says that those people will probably never get sober. I rephrased that, but yeah... That seems reasonable enough to me.
Some people get caught up on the things that annoy them in AA. I think when that happens, those things start blaring. That's why I'm with the people who say take what you need, and leave the rest. Yet if what you're taking isn't working, and you keep drinking, maybe you need to reconsider things, big time. If what you take does work, then awesome, and it really doesn't matter what people say.
For me, there was no question whatsoever that if I wanted to be sober and happy I was going to have to abandon everything I thought I knew. I'd have to retrain my brain, and live very differently from the way I was living up to that point. AA gave me the 12 steps and a billion tools to do that with, and I didn't question anything. Thirty sober years later I haven't a single regret.
Others feel differently. Others find other ways to stay sober. I'm happy I found sobriety in AA because its the most accessible, has the most sober experience, opened me up to lots and lots and lots of learning and experiences I know I wouldn't have found anywhere else. Would go into lots of detail, but I'm at work on an ipad, and still can't type well on this thing
.
Take what you need and leave the rest pisses a lot of people off, but I say go for it. Show up and do what you feel necessary. If 6 months down the line all is swell, then you did excellently and you'll be able to help others with your experience. If you're not happy, or not sober, you can try taking the suggestions that annoy you. If you can't do that or don't want to, you can look for another way to get what you need.
Yeah... I took the bait. Not expecting this thread to last long.
Some people get caught up on the things that annoy them in AA. I think when that happens, those things start blaring. That's why I'm with the people who say take what you need, and leave the rest. Yet if what you're taking isn't working, and you keep drinking, maybe you need to reconsider things, big time. If what you take does work, then awesome, and it really doesn't matter what people say.
For me, there was no question whatsoever that if I wanted to be sober and happy I was going to have to abandon everything I thought I knew. I'd have to retrain my brain, and live very differently from the way I was living up to that point. AA gave me the 12 steps and a billion tools to do that with, and I didn't question anything. Thirty sober years later I haven't a single regret.
Others feel differently. Others find other ways to stay sober. I'm happy I found sobriety in AA because its the most accessible, has the most sober experience, opened me up to lots and lots and lots of learning and experiences I know I wouldn't have found anywhere else. Would go into lots of detail, but I'm at work on an ipad, and still can't type well on this thing
.Take what you need and leave the rest pisses a lot of people off, but I say go for it. Show up and do what you feel necessary. If 6 months down the line all is swell, then you did excellently and you'll be able to help others with your experience. If you're not happy, or not sober, you can try taking the suggestions that annoy you. If you can't do that or don't want to, you can look for another way to get what you need.
Yeah... I took the bait. Not expecting this thread to last long.
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
You posted a very similar thread some years back http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-only-way.html
You also posted about doing some 9th step amends http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-9th-step.html
Obviously you are familiar with the program. If you do not like it anymore, find another program: AA is not the only way. You might want to check out Women For Sobriety and SMART for example.
I don't know who told you that but this is untrue. What is true is that if you go back to driving drunk because you are not addressing your alcoholism and get a third DUI you will definitely end up in jail.
You also posted about doing some 9th step amends http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-9th-step.html
Obviously you are familiar with the program. If you do not like it anymore, find another program: AA is not the only way. You might want to check out Women For Sobriety and SMART for example.
Moreover....if we stop going to AA, we will die or end up in jail? I'm confused.
Keeping it simple!
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Surrey, BC
Posts: 3,282
I know for me I try to focus on the positives of the programs rather than the negative. I persoanlly could nitpick all the programs I do and find reasons not to go to them. No program is going to be 100% perfect. If i get one small positive out of it then that is all that matters.
Take what you need from the program and leave the rest. It's your recovery.
Take what you need from the program and leave the rest. It's your recovery.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 80
There's a lot to like and dislike about AA. PROS: it works for many. It is the most widely used program so there's a lot of guys with good advice. The comraderie and fellowship is probably the best aspect, as is working with a sponsor who you can call when you're thinking about a drink.
Cons: it's not secular as it purports to be. It's history goes back to the Oxford groups which were around in the 1920s when Bill W wrote the big book, and they were a religious organization. Many of the steps involve prayer and prostrating yourself before god. There's all sorts of self loathing in the step work: making lists of your resentments, people you have harmed and people you have had sex with. For the life of me I'll never understand why there's a sex list, I never drank because I was remembering a drunken romp
after a night of drinking. Also, it's not even ANONYMOUS. You have to go around making amends for your past behavior while drinking, which of course exposes you as an alcoholic to those people. Also, if you relapse your sobriety date goes back to zero, even if you've been sober for years, which is extremely frustrating.
So, I think it's probably a useful tool but I don't buy into the program as completely as others. Take what works for you and ignore the rest.
Cons: it's not secular as it purports to be. It's history goes back to the Oxford groups which were around in the 1920s when Bill W wrote the big book, and they were a religious organization. Many of the steps involve prayer and prostrating yourself before god. There's all sorts of self loathing in the step work: making lists of your resentments, people you have harmed and people you have had sex with. For the life of me I'll never understand why there's a sex list, I never drank because I was remembering a drunken romp
after a night of drinking. Also, it's not even ANONYMOUS. You have to go around making amends for your past behavior while drinking, which of course exposes you as an alcoholic to those people. Also, if you relapse your sobriety date goes back to zero, even if you've been sober for years, which is extremely frustrating.
So, I think it's probably a useful tool but I don't buy into the program as completely as others. Take what works for you and ignore the rest.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,369
I foresee this thread is going to have trouble staying within Newcomers forum guidelines
Moving this to Alcoholism forum.
please note rule 4 still applies.
Please Read! The Newcomers Forum is a safe and welcoming place for newcomers. Respect is essential. Debates over Recovery Methods are not allowed on the Newcomer's Forum. Posts that violate this rule will be removed without notice. (Support and experience only please.)
please note rule 4 still applies.
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No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and recovery are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,369
Also, it's not even ANONYMOUS. You have to go around making amends for your past behavior while drinking, which of course exposes you as an alcoholic to those people.
D
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
Actually while the amends are one of AA's steps, it is just something that decent people do when they have harmed someone or simply messed up
- Realize that they were wrong
- Apologize/make reparation
- Change their behavior and monitor their future actions so it does not happen.
Sociopaths, egomaniacs and selfish brats run around creating havoc and are way too self involved to stop for a minute and see how their actions/mistakes impact others. They do not care about making reparation and changing their behavior because it is all about them.
Decent people whether in recovery or not try not to hurt others and are honest enough with themselves to know when they have been out of line.
- Realize that they were wrong
- Apologize/make reparation
- Change their behavior and monitor their future actions so it does not happen.
Sociopaths, egomaniacs and selfish brats run around creating havoc and are way too self involved to stop for a minute and see how their actions/mistakes impact others. They do not care about making reparation and changing their behavior because it is all about them.
Decent people whether in recovery or not try not to hurt others and are honest enough with themselves to know when they have been out of line.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
I thought it was a cult 3 months in...had a people problem with another member. Ran to RR, read the little book but felt uneasy. My mind started to rationalize maybe I was not an alcoholic maybe I could have one drink etc. things got weird for me personally. So I went back and really started working the steps, attending one meeting a week. I hit ten months in a couple weeks and I am seeing tremendous benefits from step work beyond staying sober.
For me most of the AA issues are well intentioned members that find a way that works and try to push their ideas on others. Or the slogans and sayings that can be condescending in many cases. If you can get beyond this then the program I think is brilliant. But there are many out there I say try a sampling and see what fits for you. If you feel uneasy, try another.
For me most of the AA issues are well intentioned members that find a way that works and try to push their ideas on others. Or the slogans and sayings that can be condescending in many cases. If you can get beyond this then the program I think is brilliant. But there are many out there I say try a sampling and see what fits for you. If you feel uneasy, try another.
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
Example of amend by a non alcoholic colleague of mine: he inadvertently washed some bus tickets (which we give to our clients) with his clothes. Instead of trying to pass the buck or praying it would not be discovered, he immediately emailed our boss explaining what happened and offered to pay for those tickets.
He did not try to make excuses, blame others or hide: He made a mistake and was adult enough to own up to it and will be more careful in the future.
An alcoholic in active addiction might have instead been upset and drank then came up with a thousand excuses and resentments on why it was our boss' fault the tickets ended up in the laundry and why they should not pay for them because they are "owed" for putting up with that crappy low paying job where no one appreciate them....by the time that alcoholic would be finished, they would probably feel quite self righteous about having destroyed those tickets LOL
He did not try to make excuses, blame others or hide: He made a mistake and was adult enough to own up to it and will be more careful in the future.
An alcoholic in active addiction might have instead been upset and drank then came up with a thousand excuses and resentments on why it was our boss' fault the tickets ended up in the laundry and why they should not pay for them because they are "owed" for putting up with that crappy low paying job where no one appreciate them....by the time that alcoholic would be finished, they would probably feel quite self righteous about having destroyed those tickets LOL
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