grubby

Is there a difference between these two?? Or is it just the same thing with a different name?

As i am coming up on 100 sober days i have been reading up a lot to reinforce my knowledge base, i see these two phrases come up a lot in the articles i Google........ not necessarily in the same sentence or section of the page, which makes me wonder if there is any difference between the two. A lot of the articles i read seem to describe these two separately, which is why I thought i would make a post and ask about it.

Can a person simply have a temporary high tolerance (physical) that goes away on it's own or returns to the normal range with a multi-week or multi-month break from the stuff? Or is it just another word for alcoholic? Are they mutually exclusive?

So far, from what i have been gathering on SR and from various random Google research i have the following generic and basic understanding of this whole alcohol thing:

Alcoholic

1. drinks with a high frequency, every day or every other day......... in some cases, all day long
2. drinks in high to very-high doses compared to non-alcoholic or "casual" drinkers
3. gets "heavily drunk" fairly frequently
4. has no particular reason to drink heavily or over-indulge, simply does it to get buzzed or to "feel good"
5. lack of control; they "just cant help" but to turn into the liquor store parking lot, buy another round, drink the whole box or bottle
6. subtle changes in behavior like hiding booze bottles, lying, deception, loss of motivation
7. drinking interferes with their life in some way, usually in a negative way
8. may experience or has experienced legal troubles or run-ins with "the law" involving alcohol in some way
9. hangovers and lack of energy are a regular thing
10. unusual amount of time spent thinking or obsessing about alcohol, "looking forward to" the next drink
11. when the alcohol is suddenly not available or taken away, they experience noticeable withdrawal symptoms
12. suffers from PAWS long after the initial break-up

Normal or "casual" drinker

1. drinks mostly during holidays like Christmas, special dinners like thanksgiving or business-meeting type dinners, Super Bowl party, or other special occasions like weddings and graduations........... might drink once a week at the MOST, usually on a Friday or Saturday
2. 1-3 drinks at the most when they do drink
3. only gets "heavily drunk" very rarely, once in a blue moon kind of thing....... typically these kinds of binges happen when younger or during college years
4. subsequent "heavy drinking" incidents are usually in response to a LEGITIMATE stressful/traumatic event such as divorce, death in family, loss of job, getting "wiped out" financially by a sudden downturn in the economy, etc etc etc
5. it is not a habit, maybe temporarily during younger/experimental years as mentioned above, but it does not continue once adult life begins
6. rarely experiences a hangover except maybe after one of those "heavily drunk" episodes
7. no constant 24/7 thinking about alcohol or "looking forward to it"
8. when alcohol is suddenly not available or is taken out of the picture, nothing happens
9. no long-term effects or symptoms

"High tolerance" drinker

1. ???
2. ???
3. ???
...
10. ???

Help me out with this SR, i am a little confused?

Perhaps someone can chime in on this and provide some clarification?

GracieLou

I guess I have to ask what difference does it make. If you are a social drinker you would not be here.

It is not so much what you drink or sometimes how much, it is what it does to your life. I had to look at that and stop asking what, why or how. In the end it didn't really matter.

I drank and could not stop once I started. I was obsessed with alcohol. When I could not drink I wanted to be drinking. I always thought the bottle was on the outside of my life and that I grabbed it but then I realized that it was at the center and I moved everything and everybody around it.

polaris

I suppose "High Tolerance" would be referring to someone who can consume a lot when they do drink, but isnt obsessed with it.

least

I'm with Gracie. I don't think it matters much what you call it but what matters is how you solve it if drinking is causing problems in your life. I had a very high tolerance and I was an alcoholic. So I stopped drinking.

Carlotta

I completely agree with GracieLou and Least
Anyway, if drinking affects you negatively then logic dictates that it is better to abstain. Labels etc...are just semantics and maybe a way for the AV to sneak up to us.

jdooner

Seems to me you are beating around the bush hoping your not an alcoholic. Maybe your not but this seems like rationalizing to me.

Btw I did this for months before I finally accepted who I am, which means I know who I am not, a normal drinker.

resolute50

I was very much a normie till I crossed that line. I didn't drink any differently than anybody else my age was doing.
So, IMO, even those that appear to be a normie can become a full blown alcoholic later in life.

FeenixxRising

Like jdooner, I suspect you're spending a lot of time reading and researching in the hopes that you don't have a drinking problem.

Labels such as alcoholic, alcohol dependent, heavy drinker, the frequency of your drinking are moot IMO. Either you're able to control your drinking or you can't. Can you control your drinking once you start to drink (it doesn't matter if you drink once a month or everyday)? Can you stop drinking when you want to? Have you suffered consequences directly related to your drinking: DUI, fights, blackouts, financial problems, sexual encounters you would not have had if sober etc.?

Ask yourself those questions and if you realize you can't control your drinking when you drink and you suffer consequences because of your drinking, you have a serious drinking problem.

zeroptzero

Man I spent a lot of time thinking about these "distinctions" and doing my internet research. As low as alcohol brought me, still I'd be googling "alcoholic return to normal drinking" and such. You can find any answer you're hoping for out there. As others have said, for me it just looking for an escape from the dubious label "alcoholic." For the most part those thoughts have vanished. I think you will find the longer you stay sober the less you will care about this. It is an interesting subject, but you have to wonder what it is you are looking for. Hope - that you can drink again? That can be replaced by realization you don't need to drink and your life is better without it.

Dee74

I'm not going to assume what your motivation is Grubby.

I know some people like to have quantifiable answers.

I'm not sure that's possible here, tho.

There's almost as many terms and gradations for drinkers like us as there are stars in the sky.

All the study in the world - and all the subjective hierarchies - won't get people sober - I tried.

Only action can do that

D

EndGameNYC

Tolerance, not "high tolerance," is one of the cardinal diagnostic criteria for alcohol dependence in the DSM-IV. 'Tolerance' is defined as needing to drink more in order to get the same effect or diminished effect when drinking the same amount.

In the DSM-V, there is an added criterion for craving for the diagnosis of "alcohol use disorder."

Whatever you call it, if alcohol is a problem, then alcohol is a problem.

jdooner

I had reverse tolerance towards the end. It would take less and less to get drunk. I believe this is because my liver could not process the alcohol fast enough as it was constant in my bloodstream

LadyBlue0527

I totally respect the search for information and can understand why you are looking.

I can tell you that for me I spent a lot of time, each time I quit, studying what alcoholism is all about. I've looked at all the ways to moderate, and have tried them all. The only peace that I've ever found was when I finally stopped fighting the inevitable and realized that it truly is what it is.

I'm not made to drink. No search for an answer will ever change that no matter what I'm classified as. Tough to accept but once you do it's like removing a ton of bricks off your back.

grubby

I believe my dad has this, he only drinks like 4 cans and the evil half of himself comes out and his eyes are all glazed over, he is 66. Scary stuff for long-term abusers.......

jason2

Neither term is that well defined.

grubby

I forgot to mention, this is my first time out. No "multiple relapses" here, so you can understand my curiosity regarding this subject matter

Want a laugh? The totality of my knowledge regarding alcohol was as follows right up until about February 20/21/22 of this year (when i started Googling around and going down the rabbit-hole to places like this one), i quit abruptly on the 17th:

"The more i drink, the better i feel"

"Don't drive drunk or get a DUI! The cops are out there! it will screw up your record also!"

"Its bad for your liver, but only if you drink all the time"

That's it! That was the extent of my knowledge base, pretty lacking in hindsight........ i had the crash-course and then some, i have learned so much since that time.

Oh, almost forgot this one:

"It can lead to violence when used and abused by certain low-IQ characters"

But getting back to topic........ i guess the question i was getting at - or the "short" version of this post - was: is there a "grey" area between alco and non-alco? Or is that just like the classic "kind of pregnant" question? (i.e. you either are pregnant or you are not)

I guess that was the gist of the original post, sorry if there was any confusion

FeenixxRising

I believe there is gray area--at least for some people. I've known a few heavy drinkers who have cut back. I have an Uncle who drank roughly 4-6 12 oz beers a day for many years, but he now only drinks a few beers every so often. However, when he was drinking, he was always in control. Honestly, I never saw him drunk. I have no idea how he did it; I just know I can't.

Moreover, even if someone is now in that gray area, chances are very good he/she will eventually pass over into the "alcoholic" realm.

But I see my Uncle as the exception to the rule. For many of us that sensor in our brain that beeped when we had one drink to many is now broken. For us, there is no "one drink too many". Like the Energizer bunny rabbit, we keep going and going and going.

LadyBlue0527

Absolutely understand the quest for info. Especially with someone dealing with this for the first time through (and hopefully the last!).

I love this one and got a hearty laugh

Wow, where on earth did you find that one? Alcoholism/problem drinking/however you want to peg it, knows no boundaries. We are ALL susceptible. Why do some people have a problem and others don't? Who knows.

As far as the "grey area" that you are questioning about there seems to be a threshold but there's no way to chart or predict at what point that lies. Once you pass through there's no return. Once that spiral begins it also spirals quickly.

The important thing is that if someone is trying to quit there's something that's driving them to make the attempt. If they try and find themselves still reasoning that they can drink it doesn't matter if they are a problem drinker or an alcoholic. If they continue it's the same journey and destination.

100 days sober is awesome! Keep on going and no matter what you find you could be classified as I'm glad that you'll never have to find out where you would have ended up had you continued.

Austin4Wyo

Truth spoken here. Being a highly intellectual individual, I wanted to know all about alcohol dependency. The DSM-IV and DSM-V gave me all that, and are the criteria on which mental health professionals base their diagnoses. When the DSM didn't give me the answers I wanted, I tried to nitpick them. So...two trips through treatment, three trips through an acute psychiatric hospital (the last one being 49 days and legally committed to the care of the State of Wyoming for a good stretch), and I'm all learned up.

Lemme tell ya how I responded...I relapsed worse than ever, combined substances for the first time, and spent two days in the hospital.

The distinctions that the original post is striving for, at least to me, only serve to muddy the waters for those of us living with the disease. They may have uses for those OUTSIDE of the addiction in a medical or academic sense, but that academic knowledge didn't keep me from drinking again. I could go get a bunch of alphabet soup behind my name in college (PhD, MD, et), but it won't change my addiction. I would venture that most of us are in the same boat. Knowing more "stuff" won't cure us or otherwise change the nature of our affliction, the same way lots of extra knowledge of cancer doesn't change the fact that a patient has it. Learning to live with it and not try to deny it (particularly in the face of demonstrable evidence of the disease) is the only course that will allow any recovery.

I was beating my head against a brick wall with the book learnin'. The best thing about hitting your head against a wall is how good it feels when you stop.

Mirage74

A high tolerance is developed after a period of consistent heavy drinking. IOW, it takes more to achieve the same level of intoxication. I'd say many or most alcoholics develop a high tolerance.

If you don't consider yourself an alcoholic but you have a high tolerance, I'd have to ask how did you develop that and why?