Failure to disclose past may lead to loss of job
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 545
These kind of things really bother me. I have a DUI from exactly 25 years ago. Would I put that on an application? No way. It's irrelevant in my opinion. Guilt for omission? Nope.
And haven't Obama and Clinton both admitted to smoking marijuana? G W Bush was busted for DUI. Did they put that on their job applications?
I guess it depends on the position and what you feel is the possibility of investigation. Certainly jobs with higher sensitivity are going to be scrutinized more.
And I would say NEVER quit a full time current job until you absolutely have another one that isn't conditionally approved. I would tell them you will give your current employer your 2 week notice when a permanent official offer/acceptance has been made. Clarify that all background and application paperwork is complete.
Good luck.
And haven't Obama and Clinton both admitted to smoking marijuana? G W Bush was busted for DUI. Did they put that on their job applications?
I guess it depends on the position and what you feel is the possibility of investigation. Certainly jobs with higher sensitivity are going to be scrutinized more.
And I would say NEVER quit a full time current job until you absolutely have another one that isn't conditionally approved. I would tell them you will give your current employer your 2 week notice when a permanent official offer/acceptance has been made. Clarify that all background and application paperwork is complete.
Good luck.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bklyn. NY
Posts: 1,859
Just want to throw one more thing in here. I've heard people who quote the bigbook say that we need to be rigorously honest. There's a few things the bigbook says regarding honesty (may have been mentioned already, didn't read all the responses), can't remember them. They also say in how it works that the point is that we are willing to grow along spiritual lines. We claim progress, not perfection. We are not saints.
Sometimes IMO common sense is more important than rigorous honesty.
And again, I don't even feel you're being dishonest if you leave that out. It's not on your public record.
Sometimes IMO common sense is more important than rigorous honesty.
And again, I don't even feel you're being dishonest if you leave that out. It's not on your public record.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 12,000
Originally Posted by ScottFromWI 
I would agree that if it is legally expunged from your record don't worry about it. You aren't lying by not disclosing it, because legally it never happened.
I had a DUI over 20 years ago which was legally expunged from my record - they have changed the rules since then but at the time, a first offense DUI basically got erased from your record after 10 years. So while I know I made the mistake, legally it never happened.
I had a DUI over 20 years ago which was legally expunged from my record - they have changed the rules since then but at the time, a first offense DUI basically got erased from your record after 10 years. So while I know I made the mistake, legally it never happened.
If the people doing a check on you want to find out anything, they can and will do it. It depends on your level of security etc. But just because it is "expunged" doesn't mean it is not on record. And I mean everything. Do not doubt me on this. Please.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,474
Knowledge Is Power
Boy, you can tell we Alks are good at diverting from the real issue and spinning it to what we like, eh? There's a lot of stuff being posted here that has nothing to do with anything. Get down to the essentials from your potential Employer's POV; the only POV that matters. The rest is irrelevant.
When I hired and fired in the High Tech World, full disclosure mattered. A lot. In and of itself. So, all the irrelevant trivia about whether you held the Joint, or whether this issue should still be on your Record doesn't matter. Your Case is not going to re-tried by your next Employer. They likely don't care. The question you're being asked is phrased as it is for a very good reason: they want The Whole Truth. Full disclosure can enhance your credibility. They'll judge from there whether what happened is relevant to future Job Performance or not. This issue is a Litmus Test to them of your honesty and likelihood of behaving with integrity in demanding situations. When we would find out 'embellishments' to a Candidate's Academic Career; prior Salaries; Alcohol bought with Company Funds after a Policy forbade doing so; that Employee would be disciplined or terminated if they even had been hired. Just the lie about the issue, irrespective of the gravity of the original infraction, became thee issue. Unto itself. Another trend is for Interviewers to compare notes later to see if your Story was consistent on this-or-that topic. Afternoon Interview 'fatigue' can get cha if/when your Story gets sloppy.
In the Real World I live in, Coworkers or even Supervisors threatened by your competence, or those who just don't like you, can be expected to dig around and seek dirt on you after some real or imagined run-in. Perhaps you become their imagined Competitor for a Promotion. These are the new [or not so new] Politics of getting even in Society: nothing is off limits. Facebook Accounts are reviewed for what ought to be Postings that are off limits, and so on. A FB Pic of a Job Candidate involving Key Customer contact throwing Signs while holding a Handle of Booze with a 'Motley Crue' Tee Shirt on? That Resume hits the Shredder. Next. Not that FB will get you here. I'm simply illustrating how Employers dig deep to avoid 'loose Cannon'-type Personalities, or Lawsuits from former Wife Beaters going off while on the Job. And, indeed, a 10+ year Record of Domestic Abuse still on the Record or not [the technicalities here don't matter one iota] could create a reason to can someone; regardless of stellar Job Performance after hiring. Some Employers want to send the message that lying or half-truths are not tolerated.
My last Speeding Trap Ticket - clearly for 'Revenue Enhancement' - was brief and to the point. The Cop commended me for not having a Ticket for 17 years, and wrote me up. Oddly, my Concealed Carry Permit Status was on his Vehicle PC, and he never even asked me about it. My loaded .357 was in my Fanny Pack on the empty Passenger Seat because I had been driving for ~15 hours over 2 days through Nowheresville. Odd priorities, in my Mind... Get the $$ and don't even ask the standard question anymore if there are any Weapons in my Vehicle. They then put the Gun on the Vehicle Roof during the stop. Standard Procedure 'round here to ensure LEO safety.
Solution here? Erase doubt. Hire a Private Detective w/Law Enforcement Credentials and have him run you. That's how you'll know what is on your Record, and visible. What should be visible doesn't matter. My 17 year-old Speeding Ticket should not have been on my Record [technically], but it was.
I know such a Detective. 95% of what he does is from his PC at Home, using Data Bases that only those with his Credentials can view. Hiring such a local Person will be inexpensive peace-of-mind. Make your Ethical decision thereafter re: what to disclose.
Good Luck!
When I hired and fired in the High Tech World, full disclosure mattered. A lot. In and of itself. So, all the irrelevant trivia about whether you held the Joint, or whether this issue should still be on your Record doesn't matter. Your Case is not going to re-tried by your next Employer. They likely don't care. The question you're being asked is phrased as it is for a very good reason: they want The Whole Truth. Full disclosure can enhance your credibility. They'll judge from there whether what happened is relevant to future Job Performance or not. This issue is a Litmus Test to them of your honesty and likelihood of behaving with integrity in demanding situations. When we would find out 'embellishments' to a Candidate's Academic Career; prior Salaries; Alcohol bought with Company Funds after a Policy forbade doing so; that Employee would be disciplined or terminated if they even had been hired. Just the lie about the issue, irrespective of the gravity of the original infraction, became thee issue. Unto itself. Another trend is for Interviewers to compare notes later to see if your Story was consistent on this-or-that topic. Afternoon Interview 'fatigue' can get cha if/when your Story gets sloppy.
In the Real World I live in, Coworkers or even Supervisors threatened by your competence, or those who just don't like you, can be expected to dig around and seek dirt on you after some real or imagined run-in. Perhaps you become their imagined Competitor for a Promotion. These are the new [or not so new] Politics of getting even in Society: nothing is off limits. Facebook Accounts are reviewed for what ought to be Postings that are off limits, and so on. A FB Pic of a Job Candidate involving Key Customer contact throwing Signs while holding a Handle of Booze with a 'Motley Crue' Tee Shirt on? That Resume hits the Shredder. Next. Not that FB will get you here. I'm simply illustrating how Employers dig deep to avoid 'loose Cannon'-type Personalities, or Lawsuits from former Wife Beaters going off while on the Job. And, indeed, a 10+ year Record of Domestic Abuse still on the Record or not [the technicalities here don't matter one iota] could create a reason to can someone; regardless of stellar Job Performance after hiring. Some Employers want to send the message that lying or half-truths are not tolerated.
My last Speeding Trap Ticket - clearly for 'Revenue Enhancement' - was brief and to the point. The Cop commended me for not having a Ticket for 17 years, and wrote me up. Oddly, my Concealed Carry Permit Status was on his Vehicle PC, and he never even asked me about it. My loaded .357 was in my Fanny Pack on the empty Passenger Seat because I had been driving for ~15 hours over 2 days through Nowheresville. Odd priorities, in my Mind... Get the $$ and don't even ask the standard question anymore if there are any Weapons in my Vehicle. They then put the Gun on the Vehicle Roof during the stop. Standard Procedure 'round here to ensure LEO safety.
Solution here? Erase doubt. Hire a Private Detective w/Law Enforcement Credentials and have him run you. That's how you'll know what is on your Record, and visible. What should be visible doesn't matter. My 17 year-old Speeding Ticket should not have been on my Record [technically], but it was.
I know such a Detective. 95% of what he does is from his PC at Home, using Data Bases that only those with his Credentials can view. Hiring such a local Person will be inexpensive peace-of-mind. Make your Ethical decision thereafter re: what to disclose.
Good Luck!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 458
my sisters ex bf beat her and was abusive. he is now a police officer. they called our mom, and mom said he would make a good cop.
she figured if he was busy with work- he would not bother our family.
BTW- same guy found a brute of a woman, and she beats him now...
she figured if he was busy with work- he would not bother our family.
BTW- same guy found a brute of a woman, and she beats him now...
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
Originally Posted by Oldselfagain
That is a completely inappropriate comment and certainly not supportive to the OP. The OP is looking for support here not to be called a fraud!
I probably wouldn't worry too much about it unless you're applying for a job in law enforcement where they can get access to expunged records.
I probably wouldn't worry too much about it unless you're applying for a job in law enforcement where they can get access to expunged records.
Originally Posted by LBrain
I agree with oldself about that y8 post - WAD!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,949
they way I see it is don't blow your cover! basic street smarts
everybody has dirt on them...I mean everybody
you don't have to feel bad about something that was expunged...you are applying to be a police officer? well maybe you should just write about this incident on your application...I don't think it matters
but don't tell them things they don't need to know like your alcoholism. minor.mental health issues. not a good idea
everybody has dirt on them...I mean everybody
you don't have to feel bad about something that was expunged...you are applying to be a police officer? well maybe you should just write about this incident on your application...I don't think it matters
but don't tell them things they don't need to know like your alcoholism. minor.mental health issues. not a good idea
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 891
Looks worse if you say no and they find different. Id say I made a mistake ten years ago, I learned from it and today I'm clean and sober. My principles of honesty and integrity compel me to be truthful about this matter.
Never feel sorry about telling the truth. Let them judge you with dignity.
I know that a lie is like a boomerang, just when I think I've gotten away with it, it comes back and hits me in the back of the head.
Best of luck
Never feel sorry about telling the truth. Let them judge you with dignity.
I know that a lie is like a boomerang, just when I think I've gotten away with it, it comes back and hits me in the back of the head.
Best of luck
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,649
I just retired from the Texas Department of Criminal Justice. If you did anything, you must report it. You will still get hired unless you don't tell. They tell you that upfront. The fact that it is no longer on your record would go a long way on showing them it is not important. I feel the truth is always best and let the chips fall where they may. I understand why you felt you did not need to declare it. I would let them know you were not hiding anything, just not aware that it was relevant. I wish you well.
Mini Novel Post Writer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,649
This:
Or call an employment lawyer.
When I applied for a job a few years back they wanted to know if I had any prior convictions and if I had been convicted of a felony. I wasn't sure if the Driving to Endanger charge was considered to be that.
My lawyer had me read the question and asked if I was going to be transporting the President somewhere and laughed.
What I did find out later is that there was a daycare directly across the street and the company was close enough that they couldn't employ anyone who had sex offenses.
Give yourself some comfort, call the PI or a lawyer. Then you're not just guessing.
Solution here? Erase doubt. Hire a Private Detective w/Law Enforcement Credentials and have him run you. That's how you'll know what is on your Record, and visible. What should be visible doesn't matter. My 17 year-old Speeding Ticket should not have been on my Record [technically], but it was.
When I applied for a job a few years back they wanted to know if I had any prior convictions and if I had been convicted of a felony. I wasn't sure if the Driving to Endanger charge was considered to be that.
My lawyer had me read the question and asked if I was going to be transporting the President somewhere and laughed.
What I did find out later is that there was a daycare directly across the street and the company was close enough that they couldn't employ anyone who had sex offenses.
Give yourself some comfort, call the PI or a lawyer. Then you're not just guessing.
Ryno032709
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Concord
Posts: 103
A quick update for everyone - I was offered and accepted the new job in question. I have it in Writing so I now have put in notice with my current employer.
Thank you everyone for contributing to this discussion. I am going to look further into my background via some of the methods many of you suggested to find out what information can be found on me through Law enforcement databases.
At this point it is my assumption that my new employer found my past and overlooked it for my benefit ( it was so long ago).
Also, I am a catholic so I am going to go to confession. I may not be able to confess to my new employer my faults but I am glad I have my higherpower and you folks on SR that I can tell about this because it has helped me a great deal with worrying about my background.
Thank you everyone for contributing to this discussion. I am going to look further into my background via some of the methods many of you suggested to find out what information can be found on me through Law enforcement databases.
At this point it is my assumption that my new employer found my past and overlooked it for my benefit ( it was so long ago).
Also, I am a catholic so I am going to go to confession. I may not be able to confess to my new employer my faults but I am glad I have my higherpower and you folks on SR that I can tell about this because it has helped me a great deal with worrying about my background.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Florida., USA
Posts: 3,252
Originally Posted by Ryno03272009
The reason I know the police report will show up is because the military found it when the SSgt ran a address check on me years ago. But that was no big deal because all I had to do was get a waiver to get in. Interestingly, to get a waiver for military I had to track down court records and records of expungement and the courts had no record of it. There was just the police report.
Yes, the job I am applying for is in law enforcement. But between the military, and my jobs in security and my degrees related to criminal justice and justice studies I have made many friends in the past ten years that know me as a sober responsible adult who has never been in trouble. They didnt know me when I was drinking heavily more than 5 years ago - and even if they did, I never got into trouble as far as they know. They support me going into law enforcement and They will never understand why I have been putting off that career for many years now. I get asked regularly "what are you still doing in security with your background and education?!"
So, I have decided to take a leap of faith. With this employer, there is no polygraph - if there was I wouldn't even bother. I figure like some of you have said... If they want me and they find it they will overlook it.
With regard to how the question is asked... "Have you ever been detained by law enforcement for any reason other than a traffic ticket?" No way of me getting around that one! Even tho in my particular case I was not arrested, not fingerprinted, no booking photo taken, etc. I was just "cited And released" or given a "summons en leu of arrest" I still was detained when the cop stopped to talk to me. Another question asks if I ever had to go to court? Yes, but all of this information has been expunged so legally, I should not have to disclose it.
Someone made a comment about the best way to tell if someone is honest is to know the answer ahead of time and ask them about it. I completely agree... However, I have never been asked specifically about this offense. Had they brought it up or IF they bring it up in future I will just reply that it has been expunged so I do not think its necessary to disclose that info. If thy then tell me what they know and ask for clarification I would tell them but only because they know the basics. I dont feel it necessary to tell them everything. Also, I feel that was a learning experience. I was a dumb kid and succumbed to peer pressure and I got in trouble and my "friends" didnt. I am sure I will use that experience to be helpful should I be allowed to continue with my new job.
With regard to my alcoholic past. In one interview I was asked "how often do you consume alcohol?" I told them not at all. They of course were surprised and asked when last time i drank was and I told them more than five years ago. They Asked why I dont drink and I told them because it doesnt make sense. People drink, they get happy and then stupid and end with either a bad headache or being sick.
Yes, the job I am applying for is in law enforcement. But between the military, and my jobs in security and my degrees related to criminal justice and justice studies I have made many friends in the past ten years that know me as a sober responsible adult who has never been in trouble. They didnt know me when I was drinking heavily more than 5 years ago - and even if they did, I never got into trouble as far as they know. They support me going into law enforcement and They will never understand why I have been putting off that career for many years now. I get asked regularly "what are you still doing in security with your background and education?!"
So, I have decided to take a leap of faith. With this employer, there is no polygraph - if there was I wouldn't even bother. I figure like some of you have said... If they want me and they find it they will overlook it.
With regard to how the question is asked... "Have you ever been detained by law enforcement for any reason other than a traffic ticket?" No way of me getting around that one! Even tho in my particular case I was not arrested, not fingerprinted, no booking photo taken, etc. I was just "cited And released" or given a "summons en leu of arrest" I still was detained when the cop stopped to talk to me. Another question asks if I ever had to go to court? Yes, but all of this information has been expunged so legally, I should not have to disclose it.
Someone made a comment about the best way to tell if someone is honest is to know the answer ahead of time and ask them about it. I completely agree... However, I have never been asked specifically about this offense. Had they brought it up or IF they bring it up in future I will just reply that it has been expunged so I do not think its necessary to disclose that info. If thy then tell me what they know and ask for clarification I would tell them but only because they know the basics. I dont feel it necessary to tell them everything. Also, I feel that was a learning experience. I was a dumb kid and succumbed to peer pressure and I got in trouble and my "friends" didnt. I am sure I will use that experience to be helpful should I be allowed to continue with my new job.
With regard to my alcoholic past. In one interview I was asked "how often do you consume alcohol?" I told them not at all. They of course were surprised and asked when last time i drank was and I told them more than five years ago. They Asked why I dont drink and I told them because it doesnt make sense. People drink, they get happy and then stupid and end with either a bad headache or being sick.
Another example of how thorough the background check is, is that they investigated members of his immediate family and also MY family. If it's the Feds, they'll find it.
Last edited by Rar; 05-30-2014 at 08:36 PM. Reason: Addition
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,572
Expunged is expunged. It never happened, no need to disclose it, and you ARE NOT LYING.
Get the job, be a great success, and do good things.
ETA, sorry the one caveat is law enforcement. Gonna have to tell em. They should still excuse it if it was legally expunged.
Get the job, be a great success, and do good things.
ETA, sorry the one caveat is law enforcement. Gonna have to tell em. They should still excuse it if it was legally expunged.
Last edited by DoubleBarrel; 05-30-2014 at 08:40 PM. Reason: Ugh. Didn't read. If the job is LEO, you are gonna have to explain it.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
