Okay ,,, another of my topics .....
non-drinker
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 13,828
I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference about the methods, it's the results that really count. There are some here that have questioned my lack of any recognized method of recovery (be it AA, RR or any other so-called "program"). After nearly 30 years of alcoholic drinking I've recovered with just a little help from friends and family and a lot of help from SR. At nearly 5 years sober I must be doing something right
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
if it works for you, that's good.
if I didn't overhype recovery, I would be dead from alcoholism and addiction, but that's how far I took it.
at one time I thought people on medication just weren't trying hard enough to change their thinking, or as you put it,rewiring their own brains. then I was diagnosed with depression( a year into recovery). ive sinced changed my thoughts about it after learning more about mental illnesses.
if I didn't overhype recovery, I would be dead from alcoholism and addiction, but that's how far I took it.
at one time I thought people on medication just weren't trying hard enough to change their thinking, or as you put it,rewiring their own brains. then I was diagnosed with depression( a year into recovery). ive sinced changed my thoughts about it after learning more about mental illnesses.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by karate 
My point here is not to start a fight .
But to make people THINK , and try another way .
Or another tool , in the fight .
But to make people THINK , and try another way .
Or another tool , in the fight .
As for getting people to try another way, use different tools and such, your a good example of that. I hope eventually you can manage some continuous sobriety by whatever means work best for you, unbroken by brief returns to drinking, as has been your recent history.
I'm not one myself for living a life based on choices based on feelings. I have feelings for the experience and not for the judgment of my actions good or ill. I look to results to inform me if things are as I want them, or at least as well as I can manage. Feelings are not in themselves invaluable. They come and go like the wind for me anyways... and all I see you doing here is basing your sobriety on feelings and mental attitudes. You've taken this same stance before without final joy of staying quit.
Nothing changes if nothing changes, karate.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Out in the Sticks
Posts: 1,788
Thanks for the reply .
All I really want to do is share what's working for me .
The goal is not a "look at me" reason .
The real goal is someone might see what I'm doing and take a look at it ,
Where the other programs were not a good fit for them.
What I'm doing might be .
And at the very least , if the books I reccomend , and anger Mgt.
Classes were explored as an option . There is no way those could be harmful-imo
All I really want to do is share what's working for me .
The goal is not a "look at me" reason .
The real goal is someone might see what I'm doing and take a look at it ,
Where the other programs were not a good fit for them.
What I'm doing might be .
And at the very least , if the books I reccomend , and anger Mgt.
Classes were explored as an option . There is no way those could be harmful-imo
voices ca**y
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,352
I read some thread were a guy was talking about sitting in AA and not understanding what the others were talking about when they said they had no mental defense against the first drink. He stayed sober for awhile and ending up returning to drinking. The next time he tried (and got sober) he said the phenomenon of cravings returned 10 fold and he understood what they meant when they said no mental defense against the first drink. I'm not there yet unless it in my house then it has to go down the drain. You probably still have a mental defense against the first drink too. Let's not check off that box before we tap out Karate.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,544
Karate
Whatever works for you. You are not forcing your opinions on anyone, your giving them.
They can be accepted or rejected. That is up to us as the viewers. We make the final decision and are responsible for the final outcome. Did that make sense?
Whatever works for you. You are not forcing your opinions on anyone, your giving them.
They can be accepted or rejected. That is up to us as the viewers. We make the final decision and are responsible for the final outcome. Did that make sense?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by karate
My point here is not to start a fight .
But to make people THINK , and try another way .
Or another tool , in the fight .
After thinking about it on the way to work , it's possible
My problem is not the same as others .
Just trying to inject another point of view .
I also think , if a better mental attitude were applied in anyone's
Life , there is not a downside to that .
AA is a faith based program , not going to discredit
God , not trying to
But to make people THINK , and try another way .
Or another tool , in the fight .
After thinking about it on the way to work , it's possible
My problem is not the same as others .
Just trying to inject another point of view .
I also think , if a better mental attitude were applied in anyone's
Life , there is not a downside to that .
AA is a faith based program , not going to discredit
God , not trying to
I don't know a lot of these other poster's histories, or them for that matter, but I know mine. I also know my experience with AA sitting in a room with a bunch of grizzled old veterans where at 54 I was the youngest one.
And I had all these great ideas. Never mind not one had worked up to that point. I could and can out-think anything you stick in front of me. And they'd just sit and listen to me. Knowing what was coming, and say nothing.
Not to disappoint, next meeting I'd show up lit up like a Christmas tree. I still don't know where I found the "stones" to even go back in there. I wanted to get sober. I didn't give a rat's rear-end how.
I've ended up eating a lot of words. I was appalled at the thought of going to AA. Not THAT. I'll try "this" .... I flailed around quitting drinking without a clue because I was tough enough for about 2 years.
Point is, these old hats at sobriety haven't stayed sober by accident. Collectively, they've probably tried every trick in the book you have and will for the next few years. They have a right to be doubtful.
If it works for you, go with it. Just keep your mind open to other ideas, even the tried and true labeled ones that work, so you have something to fall back on if yours doesn't work.
Personally, I wish you success. As long as it works.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
I was 12 stepped by a friend I consider my mentor. He is over 30yrs sober and quite successful by many other accounts. In short he has what I want, peace, content, financial freedom, etc.
I chat with him once a week. He is not my sponsor on purpose, as we tend to be closer friends than I am with my sponsor. Anyhow, my mentor sometimes has things to say that rub me the wrong way - usually because they are true and things I don't want to acknowledge.
When I was a month and then two months, I would routinely talk about how great I was feeling (pink cloud moments). My mentor, who is also in AA noted that most of the people he knows that have a lot of success right away end up relapsing. At the time I did not know what he meant.
I had success early on and then about 3 months into it I knew better than AA. I knew better than most on SR. I was again, the ruler of my roost, the same malady that got me into this situation to begin with. I posted about how AA was a cult - ran to the arms of Rational Recovery - because it had to be the program, not JDooner.
Anyhow, I have done both, I am on step #4 - my steps are slower than I like sometimes but I am lazier than I would like sometimes:-) If you like me and I am par for the course then your going to go through periods. The less you fight it and try to have all the answers the better I think you will end up.
One other story I will share Karate since your going into securities. I was in B School in 99 and 2000. I was working at an Investment Bank that summer. We were raising capital for all these high flying Internet Stocks. Valuations were through the roof and I would routinely argue with my finance professor. My professor always fell back on div discount model and cash flows, both of which these high flying Internet stocks lacked to support valuations. But I felt if everyone was buying these the collective group had to know more than my professor (lemming approach).
Anyhow, I lost my shirt and then some. I survived by the skin of my teeth and learned an important lesson, one that allowed me to make more money then
I could imagine (also part of my downfall) in solar bubble of 2005-2008 and more in the crash of '08 and '09. Wisdom comes with time. I look forward to my amend with my Prof!
Be open Karate. You seem to be doing a great job and you are making strikes - stay open and willing and above all honest and you will get there.
I chat with him once a week. He is not my sponsor on purpose, as we tend to be closer friends than I am with my sponsor. Anyhow, my mentor sometimes has things to say that rub me the wrong way - usually because they are true and things I don't want to acknowledge.
When I was a month and then two months, I would routinely talk about how great I was feeling (pink cloud moments). My mentor, who is also in AA noted that most of the people he knows that have a lot of success right away end up relapsing. At the time I did not know what he meant.
I had success early on and then about 3 months into it I knew better than AA. I knew better than most on SR. I was again, the ruler of my roost, the same malady that got me into this situation to begin with. I posted about how AA was a cult - ran to the arms of Rational Recovery - because it had to be the program, not JDooner.
Anyhow, I have done both, I am on step #4 - my steps are slower than I like sometimes but I am lazier than I would like sometimes:-) If you like me and I am par for the course then your going to go through periods. The less you fight it and try to have all the answers the better I think you will end up.
One other story I will share Karate since your going into securities. I was in B School in 99 and 2000. I was working at an Investment Bank that summer. We were raising capital for all these high flying Internet Stocks. Valuations were through the roof and I would routinely argue with my finance professor. My professor always fell back on div discount model and cash flows, both of which these high flying Internet stocks lacked to support valuations. But I felt if everyone was buying these the collective group had to know more than my professor (lemming approach).
Anyhow, I lost my shirt and then some. I survived by the skin of my teeth and learned an important lesson, one that allowed me to make more money then
I could imagine (also part of my downfall) in solar bubble of 2005-2008 and more in the crash of '08 and '09. Wisdom comes with time. I look forward to my amend with my Prof!
Be open Karate. You seem to be doing a great job and you are making strikes - stay open and willing and above all honest and you will get there.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Poconos PA
Posts: 1,544
I hear what you are saying Karate, I sometimes try to leave it all behind without another thought. The problem is, the habit has a way of creeping back up to you at 3 months, then 6 months and so on. In my own experience it never fully goes away, that is why you need some kind of sustained support. Sure it gets easier and less impulsive but it always seems to still lurk somewhere just beneath the surface.
That's why I still come here daily if even for only a few minutes and not post, just read. I need that daily reminder of how dangerous alcohol is to me to help me stay the course.
That's why I still come here daily if even for only a few minutes and not post, just read. I need that daily reminder of how dangerous alcohol is to me to help me stay the course.
Reborn 8th December 2013
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 17
Originally Posted by karate
People have immense mental power ,if tapped into ........
I think alcohol only has the power over you ,if you allow it to have power .
The process of sobering up ,seems to be overcomplicated ,and over hyped -imo
My methods are sure looked down on ,in the community as a group .
Yet ,here I sit ,pretty darn happy ,and sober .
Its not a white knuckle trip ,more of a calm ,passive backing away from it .
I do ,and will admit ,the first few days do take some grit ,to get through
After a couple weeks , its pull is very weak .
Okay -FLAME AWAY
I think alcohol only has the power over you ,if you allow it to have power .
The process of sobering up ,seems to be overcomplicated ,and over hyped -imo
My methods are sure looked down on ,in the community as a group .
Yet ,here I sit ,pretty darn happy ,and sober .
Its not a white knuckle trip ,more of a calm ,passive backing away from it .
I do ,and will admit ,the first few days do take some grit ,to get through
After a couple weeks , its pull is very weak .
Okay -FLAME AWAY
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Out in the Sticks
Posts: 1,788
And , it's unreasonable to think we will not have the normal range of human emotions
I think being sober , people are not used to emotion .
IMO -it's very important to understand the truth , emotions are part of life .
Now , what I try to do is , get through the emotion range , accepting the emotions that arrive .
It's somewhat of a choice to act on those emotions , it's also a bit of a choice to allow the negative emotions in the first place .
If a person lives to the positive ,constantly looking for the good and
Positive -it's alot easier to find .
I don't get up daily and say " I'm glad I'm alive yee-haw
I focus on my thoughts constantly .
This process has taken a while.
I think being sober , people are not used to emotion .
IMO -it's very important to understand the truth , emotions are part of life .
Now , what I try to do is , get through the emotion range , accepting the emotions that arrive .
It's somewhat of a choice to act on those emotions , it's also a bit of a choice to allow the negative emotions in the first place .
If a person lives to the positive ,constantly looking for the good and
Positive -it's alot easier to find .
I don't get up daily and say " I'm glad I'm alive yee-haw
I focus on my thoughts constantly .
This process has taken a while.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by karate
And , it's unreasonable to think we will not have the normal range of human emotions
I think being sober , people are not used to emotion .
IMO -it's very important to understand the truth , emotions are part of life .
Now , what I try to do is , get through the emotion range , accepting the emotions that arrive .
It's somewhat of a choice to act on those emotions , it's also a bit of a choice to allow the negative emotions in the first place .
If a person lives to the positive ,constantly looking for the good and
Positive -it's alot easier to find .
I don't get up daily and say " I'm glad I'm alive yee-haw
I focus on my thoughts constantly .
This process has taken a while.
I think being sober , people are not used to emotion .
IMO -it's very important to understand the truth , emotions are part of life .
Now , what I try to do is , get through the emotion range , accepting the emotions that arrive .
It's somewhat of a choice to act on those emotions , it's also a bit of a choice to allow the negative emotions in the first place .
If a person lives to the positive ,constantly looking for the good and
Positive -it's alot easier to find .
I don't get up daily and say " I'm glad I'm alive yee-haw
I focus on my thoughts constantly .
This process has taken a while.
And what I learned through the school of hard knocks is it was my inability to deal with my emotions correctly that triggered me to drink. Why deal with them when you can just kill them?
Knowing that's only half the battle. So far, since I finally figured that part out I have remained sober. I intend it stay that way.
I learned from my mistakes. In some ways, too late considering what I lost. I also have found it invaluable to learn from the mistakes of others.
If you are as determined in practice as you are word that your way works and is correct, then why not have a couple of phone numbers in your wallet just in case? If you don't need them, they'll eventually fade away.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Out in the Sticks
Posts: 1,788
Got a couple already , I however refuse to live in fear of a beer can
It can't jump up in my mouth .
My program is not fear based , it's not totally "me" based either
I do have a God of my own understanding , I don't think he wants me to live in fear of a beer can , whiskey bottle , or other stationary object .
So far , I have had plenty of problems during this time .
Favorite dog was ran over and killed this week., my son ran over her
I loved that dog , my constant companion .
But to put it in perspective , it's a dog .
Not a human .
LOTS of other problems alot larger than the dog , yet I keep
Plugging along .
Wife lost her job ,many days I don't have a single paper buck in my pocket
That's how broke I am .
But , I have all my equipment paid for , house is very close
Cars paid for , so rather than gripe . I think " I'm sure glad I planned my goals
Years ago , otherwise I'd be homeless .
I have used all my disposable cash to live ,and still have retirement funds .
So it's just cash poor , but no fun .
Many days at work I eat what I have , not what I want.
Not having money to eat what you want does get old , but
A can of beans and a can of tuna , will keep ya going .
Finances are real tight , but will worry or getting drunk solve
It - nope .
I left the best for last , my favorite aunt that passed ,
She had me a 2011 car , and about 40k willed to me .
She hand wrote her will -not valid , had 2 lawyers look at
It .
Still nothing to do but accept life with as much calm as you can.
Job is TOUGH , run by micro managers that have NO idea
What we do . Sleep deprivation shift I have
That I CAN change and I'm going to
I left out a few things I'm not comfortable sharing on a public forum.
But as you can see , I don't have the perfect life -at all
It can't jump up in my mouth .
My program is not fear based , it's not totally "me" based either
I do have a God of my own understanding , I don't think he wants me to live in fear of a beer can , whiskey bottle , or other stationary object .
So far , I have had plenty of problems during this time .
Favorite dog was ran over and killed this week., my son ran over her
I loved that dog , my constant companion .
But to put it in perspective , it's a dog .
Not a human .
LOTS of other problems alot larger than the dog , yet I keep
Plugging along .
Wife lost her job ,many days I don't have a single paper buck in my pocket
That's how broke I am .
But , I have all my equipment paid for , house is very close
Cars paid for , so rather than gripe . I think " I'm sure glad I planned my goals
Years ago , otherwise I'd be homeless .
I have used all my disposable cash to live ,and still have retirement funds .
So it's just cash poor , but no fun .
Many days at work I eat what I have , not what I want.
Not having money to eat what you want does get old , but
A can of beans and a can of tuna , will keep ya going .
Finances are real tight , but will worry or getting drunk solve
It - nope .
I left the best for last , my favorite aunt that passed ,
She had me a 2011 car , and about 40k willed to me .
She hand wrote her will -not valid , had 2 lawyers look at
It .
Still nothing to do but accept life with as much calm as you can.
Job is TOUGH , run by micro managers that have NO idea
What we do . Sleep deprivation shift I have
That I CAN change
and I'm going to I left out a few things I'm not comfortable sharing on a public forum.
But as you can see , I don't have the perfect life -at all
Reborn 8th December 2013
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 17
Originally Posted by karate
Got a couple already , I however refuse to live in fear of a beer can
It can't jump up in my mouth .
My program is not fear based , it's not totally "me" based either
I do have a God of my own understanding , I don't think he wants me to live in fear of a beer can , whiskey bottle , or other stationary object .
So far , I have had plenty of problems during this time .
Favorite dog was ran over and killed this week., my son ran over her
I loved that dog , my constant companion .
But to put it in perspective , it's a dog .
Not a human .
It can't jump up in my mouth .
My program is not fear based , it's not totally "me" based either
I do have a God of my own understanding , I don't think he wants me to live in fear of a beer can , whiskey bottle , or other stationary object .
So far , I have had plenty of problems during this time .
Favorite dog was ran over and killed this week., my son ran over her
I loved that dog , my constant companion .
But to put it in perspective , it's a dog .
Not a human .
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Out in the Sticks
Posts: 1,788
There are people that will die , this very day .
Some of those people will leave small children behind .
Solders will likley be killed in the Middle East .
I'm still very blessed .
Some of those people will leave small children behind .
Solders will likley be killed in the Middle East .
I'm still very blessed .
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Out in the Sticks
Posts: 1,788
Originally Posted by kenkd
I'm still wondering how your problem is different and unique....If you elaborate it may help others.
For sure .
I suspect 1/4 of the people I know would describe me as a lunatic
1/4 would describe me as intelligent , and the other half as a
Loner / solitary person
About the time I can totally relax is alone ,
I guess that started the drinking .
Now I enjoy alone time sober too .
Anything else , just ask
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