When does a "recovering" alcoholic become a "recovered" alcoholic?
Mini Novel Post Writer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,649
I've pondered this post all day, part of my recovery is picking a post in the morning and reflecting on it during the day.
Here's what I know. I've quit 4 times, this time it's working. The only reason for that is that I have complete and total acceptance that it will never be safe for me to drink.
Along with that I have watched many who talked themselves into thinking that they really didn't have a problem and then I've watched them return due to the same end result.
I've seen posts from people who have very long term recovery posing the question to others that since it's been so long that maybe it's safe now. One of these posts just happened over the past few days. Those posts scare me but are reality that I'll always have to be mindful.
Then, I've seen posts from people who returned after long term recovery who didn't take the time to question and assumed that they were now ok to drink. It didn't work, they went back to right where they were.
Will we forever think about it every waking moment? No, but I've drawn the conclusion that with all of the above being said that we will always need to be active in recovery. My opinion only.
Here's what I know. I've quit 4 times, this time it's working. The only reason for that is that I have complete and total acceptance that it will never be safe for me to drink.
Along with that I have watched many who talked themselves into thinking that they really didn't have a problem and then I've watched them return due to the same end result.
I've seen posts from people who have very long term recovery posing the question to others that since it's been so long that maybe it's safe now. One of these posts just happened over the past few days. Those posts scare me but are reality that I'll always have to be mindful.
Then, I've seen posts from people who returned after long term recovery who didn't take the time to question and assumed that they were now ok to drink. It didn't work, they went back to right where they were.
Will we forever think about it every waking moment? No, but I've drawn the conclusion that with all of the above being said that we will always need to be active in recovery. My opinion only.
Woe is Moo.
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,746
I never like word "recovery" cuz it sound like I break leg or had surgery and is waiting for this to heal, when what I really trying to do is overcome, then re-create, entire paradigm that is my psyche and physiology. But I guess it get bit wordy if you goes around telling friends you in "an intensive state of transmutation which may or may not ever be considered complete".
One thing for sure, I will no drink anymore when I dead. So at very least I can put "Finally Sober!" on tombstone. <just some dark humors, to lighten mood!
PS. Hi Robot, you rock!
One thing for sure, I will no drink anymore when I dead. So at very least I can put "Finally Sober!" on tombstone. <just some dark humors, to lighten mood!
PS. Hi Robot, you rock!
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 600
Originally Posted by robbyrobot
digderidoo,
Interesting how you lower-cased some of my uppercase references to self in your edited quote of my original post.
Why is that? No worries, just asking.
Interesting how you lower-cased some of my uppercase references to self in your edited quote of my original post.
Why is that? No worries, just asking.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 25,826
The problem with the word "recovered" can sometimes be confused with "cured" or in the above analogy "healed".
Sometimes I think this question is posed looking for the answer to "when will I be able to drink again?" and the problem is the answer for most is probably never. Not many alcoholics, if any will be able to moderate, so Sobriety will be a permanent state for life to deal with the addiction.
If the question is simply what to call ourselves as we remain Sober then fine, but the idea of being cured of our addictions and being "normal" drinkers is not the "recovered" that most people refer to when the term is used!!
Sometimes I think this question is posed looking for the answer to "when will I be able to drink again?" and the problem is the answer for most is probably never. Not many alcoholics, if any will be able to moderate, so Sobriety will be a permanent state for life to deal with the addiction.
If the question is simply what to call ourselves as we remain Sober then fine, but the idea of being cured of our addictions and being "normal" drinkers is not the "recovered" that most people refer to when the term is used!!
Mini Novel Post Writer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,649
Originally Posted by Cow 
But I guess it get bit wordy if you goes around telling friends you in "an intensive state of transmutation which may or may not ever be considered complete".
Are you KIDDING???? I LOVE LOVE LOVE THIS!
That is definitely being memorized for use the next time someone asks why I'm not drinking! What a riot!
Friend: Oh, you're still not drinking?
Me: No, I'm in an intensive state of transmutation which may or may not ever be considered complete
What a way to lighten the mood and remove any and all awkwardness!
Thanks for that
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,544
Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
digderidoo,
Interesting how you lower-cased some of my uppercase references to self in your edited quote of my original post.
Why is that? No worries, just asking.
Interesting how you lower-cased some of my uppercase references to self in your edited quote of my original post.
Why is that? No worries, just asking.
me to thinking about the comment that you had made. What you had pointed
had me looking a bit closer on how I wrote. Unintentionally I had capitalized the X before husband and drinking. A lower case x before smoking.
I cap. in husband/drinking because those are things that happened recently. Mar. 13 Divorce Finalized, Mar 17 stopped drinking. The smoking over 10 years ago.so it is not as fresh.
Darn, this is great! One stops drinking...they start thinking
It can't get much better then this huh? Beside me winning the lotto lo.l
Woe is Moo.
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,746
Bluelady, then it go:
Friend: WTF is you talking about?
You: Oh sorry, what I mean to say is I currently paradigm shifting my entire beingness, and so therefore, can no partake of organic compounds in which the hydroxyl grouping is bound to a carbon atom. I sure you understand, yes?
Friend: WTF is you talking about?
You: Oh sorry, what I mean to say is I currently paradigm shifting my entire beingness, and so therefore, can no partake of organic compounds in which the hydroxyl grouping is bound to a carbon atom. I sure you understand, yes?
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,313
Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
digderidoo,
Interesting how you lower-cased some of my uppercase references to self in your edited quote of my original post.
Why is that? No worries, just asking.
Interesting how you lower-cased some of my uppercase references to self in your edited quote of my original post.
Why is that? No worries, just asking.
D
Happy, joyous, and free
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: FL
Posts: 113
Great discussion. For me, I'll always be recovering. While I haven't had a drink in a number of years, the disease still does a number on my thinking. That still needs to be treated. As a wise friend says, the monkey may be off my back but the circus is still in town.
(First post out of lurkdom, btw. Hi everyone. )
(First post out of lurkdom, btw. Hi everyone.
)
Woe is Moo.
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,746
Welcome SunnyYou. You lucky they just in town, I got drunk gypsy circus still camp out in my head. Sure, the beard lady is hot, but the acrobats is exhausting, and the clowns make fool of me, every time.
However, I has total move on from other addiction, like meth. Is zero chance I ever does meth again, no doubt in mind, no thoughts, no concerns. But, is this really 'recovered' or is I just shift it over to other things. Does you has to be sober of everything to be truly sober of anything?
However, I has total move on from other addiction, like meth. Is zero chance I ever does meth again, no doubt in mind, no thoughts, no concerns. But, is this really 'recovered' or is I just shift it over to other things. Does you has to be sober of everything to be truly sober of anything?
Woe is Moo.
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,746
Oh thank you, Karate. Yes, I a Holstein, so that probable why I look like a Holstein.
And, I at war, so 30 pound early 19th century iron mace I think is most logical weapon of choice. I mean, sure, one can end up in ER getting 6 stitches in side of one's head if one not know how to swing that bitch, but is true weapon of the gladiator, yes?
And, I at war, so 30 pound early 19th century iron mace I think is most logical weapon of choice. I mean, sure, one can end up in ER getting 6 stitches in side of one's head if one not know how to swing that bitch, but is true weapon of the gladiator, yes?
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
So the newcomer reads the Big Book about 100 men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. He learns what the future holds for him if he follows the program. He will have recovered and been given the power to help others. Then he reads around page 90 that if he wants to work with another alcoholic, attention should be drawn to him as someone who have recovered.
He is filled with hope at the vision of a useful life, no longer suffering from his illness.
Then he gets to the fellowship and is told, oh no you can never recover. You will always be in recovery. You need to do plenty of meetings because everyday is the day you might drink, so you need constant reminding. Don't go getting anymore big ideas about being recovered, that will just jinx your recovery. Remember we are all sick people trying to get well.
Watch the light of hope go out in his eyes. Where did this rubbish come from? Not the book that worked so well for so many that,s for sure.
Ah, now I remember. It was a counsellor in a treatment centre who told me all this along with the fact that I would never get sober unless I went through his treatment centre. There was a very clear vested interest in the idea, I think it's called the relapse prevention industry. That was 34 years ago, I never went, I never drank.
The difference between recovering and recovered is that one is yet to complete the steps and have a spiritual experience, the other has worked the steps, had a spiritual experience, and continues to maintain fit spiritual condition.
As a result we are taken to a different place, the fourth dimension of existence if you like, or what I prefer to call the fellowship of the spirit. Here, the ninth and tenth step promises are a normal part of existence.
Another aspect I have noticed with recovering or non recovering alcoholics, depending on how you wish to view it, is a tendency to use their alcoholism to justify all sorts of crazy behaviour.
For me, if I behave badly, it's because I behaved badly. There is no disease to excuse my behaviour but there are steps I can take to rectify any damage I cause.
He is filled with hope at the vision of a useful life, no longer suffering from his illness.
Then he gets to the fellowship and is told, oh no you can never recover. You will always be in recovery. You need to do plenty of meetings because everyday is the day you might drink, so you need constant reminding. Don't go getting anymore big ideas about being recovered, that will just jinx your recovery. Remember we are all sick people trying to get well.
Watch the light of hope go out in his eyes. Where did this rubbish come from? Not the book that worked so well for so many that,s for sure.
Ah, now I remember. It was a counsellor in a treatment centre who told me all this along with the fact that I would never get sober unless I went through his treatment centre. There was a very clear vested interest in the idea, I think it's called the relapse prevention industry. That was 34 years ago, I never went, I never drank.
The difference between recovering and recovered is that one is yet to complete the steps and have a spiritual experience, the other has worked the steps, had a spiritual experience, and continues to maintain fit spiritual condition.
As a result we are taken to a different place, the fourth dimension of existence if you like, or what I prefer to call the fellowship of the spirit. Here, the ninth and tenth step promises are a normal part of existence.
Another aspect I have noticed with recovering or non recovering alcoholics, depending on how you wish to view it, is a tendency to use their alcoholism to justify all sorts of crazy behaviour.
For me, if I behave badly, it's because I behaved badly. There is no disease to excuse my behaviour but there are steps I can take to rectify any damage I cause.
Grateful
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 1,763
IMO if someone goes back out and drinks because of how they label themselves ("recovered" versus "recovering"), then there are deeper issues to sort out than the verbiage they use. I have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body, my obsession to drink has lifted, and my problem with alcohol has been removed. I am recovered.
However I am NOT cured. The authors of the Big Book state numerous times (20 IIRC) that they had recovered from alcoholism after completing the 12 step program suggested in the book. The BB also gives us a warning on p. 85:
I'm coming purely from my experience with AA and completing the steps. I had 7 years of sobriety 2 different times and relapsed both times (once for a year and once for 8 years). I never worked the steps, I was never recovered, my "recovery" was shaky at best, and the obsession never completely left me. I had to be ever vigilant because I never knew when the obsession (aka AV) would pop up. I don't have that problem now. It's not cockiness, my alcohol problem simply does not exist anymore as long as I continue to live by the spiritual principles of the program.
For some people it might make more sense to think of a cancer patient being in remission. They no longer have cancer but they will always be a cancer patient. I had a bad aortic valve and an ascending aortic aneurysm which was making me sick. I had surgery to replace the valve and repair the aneurysm. After I recovered from surgery my aortic valve and ascending aorta now function normally, but I will always be a heart patient and will always treat myself as one. Just like I have recovered from the symptoms of alcoholism but I will always be an alcoholic and treat myself as one.
I always liked the way a member by the name of Boleo put this topic in context:
"You can recover from a gunshot wound but that doesn't make you bulletproof."
However I am NOT cured. The authors of the Big Book state numerous times (20 IIRC) that they had recovered from alcoholism after completing the 12 step program suggested in the book. The BB also gives us a warning on p. 85:
It is easy to let up on the spiritual program of action and rest on our laurels. We are headed for trouble if we do, for alcohol is a subtle foe. We are not cured of alcoholism. What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of out spiritual condition.
For some people it might make more sense to think of a cancer patient being in remission. They no longer have cancer but they will always be a cancer patient. I had a bad aortic valve and an ascending aortic aneurysm which was making me sick. I had surgery to replace the valve and repair the aneurysm. After I recovered from surgery my aortic valve and ascending aorta now function normally, but I will always be a heart patient and will always treat myself as one. Just like I have recovered from the symptoms of alcoholism but I will always be an alcoholic and treat myself as one.
I always liked the way a member by the name of Boleo put this topic in context:
"You can recover from a gunshot wound but that doesn't make you bulletproof."
Grateful
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 1,763
Originally Posted by Gottalife
So the newcomer reads the Big Book about 100 men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. He learns what the future holds for him if he follows the program. He will have recovered and been given the power to help others. Then he reads around page 90 that if he wants to work with another alcoholic, attention should be drawn to him as someone who have recovered.
He is filled with hope at the vision of a useful life, no longer suffering from his illness.
Then he gets to the fellowship and is told, oh no you can never recover. You will always be in recovery. You need to do plenty of meetings because everyday is the day you might drink, so you need constant reminding. Don't go getting anymore big ideas about being recovered, that will just jinx your recovery. Remember we are all sick people trying to get well.
Watch the light of hope go out in his eyes. Where did this rubbish come from? Not the book that worked so well for so many that,s for sure.
Ah, now I remember. It was a counsellor in a treatment centre who told me all this along with the fact that I would never get sober unless I went through his treatment centre. There was a very clear vested interest in the idea, I think it's called the relapse prevention industry. That was 34 years ago, I never went, I never drank.
The difference between recovering and recovered is that one is yet to complete the steps and have a spiritual experience, the other has worked the steps, had a spiritual experience, and continues to maintain fit spiritual condition.
As a result we are taken to a different place, the fourth dimension of existence if you like, or what I prefer to call the fellowship of the spirit. Here, the ninth and tenth step promises are a normal part of existence.
Another aspect I have noticed with recovering or non recovering alcoholics, depending on how you wish to view it, is a tendency to use their alcoholism to justify all sorts of crazy behaviour.
For me, if I behave badly, it's because I behaved badly. There is no disease to excuse my behaviour but there are steps I can take to rectify any damage I cause.
He is filled with hope at the vision of a useful life, no longer suffering from his illness.
Then he gets to the fellowship and is told, oh no you can never recover. You will always be in recovery. You need to do plenty of meetings because everyday is the day you might drink, so you need constant reminding. Don't go getting anymore big ideas about being recovered, that will just jinx your recovery. Remember we are all sick people trying to get well.
Watch the light of hope go out in his eyes. Where did this rubbish come from? Not the book that worked so well for so many that,s for sure.
Ah, now I remember. It was a counsellor in a treatment centre who told me all this along with the fact that I would never get sober unless I went through his treatment centre. There was a very clear vested interest in the idea, I think it's called the relapse prevention industry. That was 34 years ago, I never went, I never drank.
The difference between recovering and recovered is that one is yet to complete the steps and have a spiritual experience, the other has worked the steps, had a spiritual experience, and continues to maintain fit spiritual condition.
As a result we are taken to a different place, the fourth dimension of existence if you like, or what I prefer to call the fellowship of the spirit. Here, the ninth and tenth step promises are a normal part of existence.
Another aspect I have noticed with recovering or non recovering alcoholics, depending on how you wish to view it, is a tendency to use their alcoholism to justify all sorts of crazy behaviour.
For me, if I behave badly, it's because I behaved badly. There is no disease to excuse my behaviour but there are steps I can take to rectify any damage I cause.
***Just a random observation:
I just went back and re-read the entire thread...again...and where I see the big discrepancy in views seems to be the interpretation of the word "recovered" and the word "cured" being synonymous. They do not have the same meaning to me.
2Cor5:17
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Between Doctor's opinion & pg 164
Posts: 4,187
Great question sir
cascabel put it best! Bout 3 mths ago this same debate came up & IMHO believe its recovery. Got very tense with each person giving diff answers. If I was recovered then why would I cont going to mtgs, spending @ least an hr each day reading literature etc?
In fairness the big bk does use past tense ascribing to obsession to drink being lifted off
Asked my new sponsor maybe wk ago & he said its both. When you get shot, you go to the hosp & get recovered from gunshot wound after however long. But doesn't mean now that I'm bullet proof
cascabel put it best! Bout 3 mths ago this same debate came up & IMHO believe its recovery. Got very tense with each person giving diff answers. If I was recovered then why would I cont going to mtgs, spending @ least an hr each day reading literature etc?
In fairness the big bk does use past tense ascribing to obsession to drink being lifted off
Asked my new sponsor maybe wk ago & he said its both. When you get shot, you go to the hosp & get recovered from gunshot wound after however long. But doesn't mean now that I'm bullet proof
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,313
Another aspect I have noticed with recovering or non recovering alcoholics, depending on how you wish to view it, is a tendency to use their alcoholism to justify all sorts of crazy behaviour.
D
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