Is a relapse expected by most people?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,506
Is a relapse expected by most people?
Hope you all are having a nice (sober) weekend, just been noticing some various posts regarding the possibility of relapses due to certain situations and was wondering, how many of us "expect" a relapse to take place? I must admit I do not expect a relapse at all and the only reason I say this is because if I did expect it to take place it would make me think it's the norm and that would make it all far too easy to give it to the pulling power of those magnetic bottles!!
For anyone not sure of my history, I have drank heavily every day until my mid to late 30's and gave up for the first and hopefully only time just around 5 months ago. I am not a special case by any stretch of the imagination but I truly believe mental strength can overcome any obstacle placed in front of us if you just want it enough.
This amazing forum has helped me so much and I value each and every person who contributes and changes people lives for the better.
For anyone not sure of my history, I have drank heavily every day until my mid to late 30's and gave up for the first and hopefully only time just around 5 months ago. I am not a special case by any stretch of the imagination but I truly believe mental strength can overcome any obstacle placed in front of us if you just want it enough.
This amazing forum has helped me so much and I value each and every person who contributes and changes people lives for the better.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: California
Posts: 195
I think when we stop expecting or fearing a relapse is when we get tricked. The voice seems quiet and can even shut up for extended periods of time but it's still there. It will always be there waiting for you to let your guard down. You don't have to call it "expect" if you don't want to but should always be "fearful" of a relapse.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
I think to "expect" a relapse, or to drink again is a self-fulfilling prophecy. I've never thought about drinking again, even though I've had opportunities to do so. I was told early on that when I come to AA and start working the steps, I have a choice. I've always chosen to NOT DRINK.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 183
I think that it depends on where a person is in their recovery - and by recovery, I mean where they are with their honest assessment and insight of their own drinking/sobriety and motivations. Other people may mean something else by recovery - or may describe recovery as the method used to get to the honest insights about drinking and motivations. And that's ok, but I'm just saying that I think the point of a "program," whatever it is, is to get a person to be able to recognize patterns in thoughts and behavior, and to give that person tools to think and behave differently.
I think, statistically, that a lot of people do relapse. So, in that sense, one could say that it's not surprising when a person relapses, or to even go a step further, say it's expected that a relapse will happen just based on numbers. But - the thing with statistics is that they don't apply to EVERY person as an individual. I am my own statistic, if you will... I think each case needs to be evaluated to understand if a particular person has some of the tell tale characteristics of a person about to relapse. And even then, I think a person can be right on the very edge of relapsing, and then not relapse! So...in that sense, I don't think that a relapse is a "given". I think, if a person is honest with their support group, that a relapse can be seen as imminent in some cases by that support group, even when the person doesn't consciously realize they are headed in that direction. Unfortunately, that realization seems to come a lot of the time in hindsight. I believe that the relapse process starts far sooner than when the person actually the person actually picked up a drink.
So, I personally don't think a relapse is a necessary or guaranteed part of abstinence - however, I "get it" when it happens to people. It happened to me 4 yrs. ago after 4 months sober. It enabled me to have yet another example of how drinking just doesn't work for me, and how I cannot drink like a normal person. As if everything else in my wake wasn't evidence enough, the relapse itself really got my attention.
But, I agree with you - sticking to a decision no matter what, because you want it badly enough can absolutely work, and ultimately is the foundation of how people stay sober (in my opinion). I tend to perceive the act of not drinking as a solid decision that I have control over. Once I START drinking, I have proven time and time again that I absolutely lose my decision making ability. So...as long as I don't put a drink to my lips, my faculties are intact, and I can continue making that decision not to drink.
If I relapse, I have, for whatever reason, made the decision to drink again...knowing that I cannot predict the exact outcome, and knowing that it's going to go to a bad place pretty quickly. To make the decision to do that while sober, means that I have rationalized the drinking to the degree necessary to convince myself that it will be "different this time". I think certain situations tend to present common triggers for people to be able to do the rationalizing. Being around heavy drinkers - seeing the drunken, out of control behavior 'normalized'...being under stress and not having other ways to cope with it...etc.
I think, statistically, that a lot of people do relapse. So, in that sense, one could say that it's not surprising when a person relapses, or to even go a step further, say it's expected that a relapse will happen just based on numbers. But - the thing with statistics is that they don't apply to EVERY person as an individual. I am my own statistic, if you will... I think each case needs to be evaluated to understand if a particular person has some of the tell tale characteristics of a person about to relapse. And even then, I think a person can be right on the very edge of relapsing, and then not relapse! So...in that sense, I don't think that a relapse is a "given". I think, if a person is honest with their support group, that a relapse can be seen as imminent in some cases by that support group, even when the person doesn't consciously realize they are headed in that direction. Unfortunately, that realization seems to come a lot of the time in hindsight. I believe that the relapse process starts far sooner than when the person actually the person actually picked up a drink.
So, I personally don't think a relapse is a necessary or guaranteed part of abstinence - however, I "get it" when it happens to people. It happened to me 4 yrs. ago after 4 months sober. It enabled me to have yet another example of how drinking just doesn't work for me, and how I cannot drink like a normal person. As if everything else in my wake wasn't evidence enough, the relapse itself really got my attention.
But, I agree with you - sticking to a decision no matter what, because you want it badly enough can absolutely work, and ultimately is the foundation of how people stay sober (in my opinion). I tend to perceive the act of not drinking as a solid decision that I have control over. Once I START drinking, I have proven time and time again that I absolutely lose my decision making ability. So...as long as I don't put a drink to my lips, my faculties are intact, and I can continue making that decision not to drink.
If I relapse, I have, for whatever reason, made the decision to drink again...knowing that I cannot predict the exact outcome, and knowing that it's going to go to a bad place pretty quickly. To make the decision to do that while sober, means that I have rationalized the drinking to the degree necessary to convince myself that it will be "different this time". I think certain situations tend to present common triggers for people to be able to do the rationalizing. Being around heavy drinkers - seeing the drunken, out of control behavior 'normalized'...being under stress and not having other ways to cope with it...etc.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: casablanca
Posts: 282
I don't think Relapse should be expected, however, in my opinion and my own experience, the reason of that being is that if you ever relapse you don't get too hard on yourself and get back to your program of recovery. in my case I relapsed several times to the point of of attempting suicide. So, in my cae and other cases of relapses, by hearing that relapse could happen in AA, gets us out of the pity pot and giving up on recovery and life in general if we relapse. I hope I made some sense lol
Try try again
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Hole-in-the-Wall TX
Posts: 88
The first step in AA is:
1. Admit you are powerless over alcohol and that your life has become unmanageable.
It seems rational than to believe that nobody searched out this site if they believed otherwise.
Hence, nobody who admits Step 1 can say they did it of their own willpower and made a choice not to ever fall again.
The Big Book concludes:
Do not be discouraged. No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints. The point is, that we are willing to grow along spiritual lines. The principles we have set down are guides to progress. We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection.
Progress, my dear Stoogy seems to be the key. I hear a lot of people saying “expectation” has a lot to do with it. But with all the stories I hear on this site, it seems to me that there was always somebody pivotal in helping the addict get free. Somebody who inspired, somebody who intervened, somebody who stood in the gap and did not judge but was a true friend. Somebody who loved and accepted.
I know this, the worst thing that anyone could do to somebody in dire straits is to make them feel they are a failure by their own choice. Nobody wants to be a failure.
1. Admit you are powerless over alcohol and that your life has become unmanageable.
It seems rational than to believe that nobody searched out this site if they believed otherwise.
Hence, nobody who admits Step 1 can say they did it of their own willpower and made a choice not to ever fall again.
The Big Book concludes:
Do not be discouraged. No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints. The point is, that we are willing to grow along spiritual lines. The principles we have set down are guides to progress. We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection.
Progress, my dear Stoogy seems to be the key. I hear a lot of people saying “expectation” has a lot to do with it. But with all the stories I hear on this site, it seems to me that there was always somebody pivotal in helping the addict get free. Somebody who inspired, somebody who intervened, somebody who stood in the gap and did not judge but was a true friend. Somebody who loved and accepted.
I know this, the worst thing that anyone could do to somebody in dire straits is to make them feel they are a failure by their own choice. Nobody wants to be a failure.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
For me, relapse is all about addiction and not about recovery from addiction. Relapses happen in addiction and recovery happens out of addiction. Mixing relapsing into the recovery process is perhaps a personal choice for those who just can't see themselves as "never again" using alcohol. When I didn't stay quit, I was really just between drunks was all. I wasn't recovering, like as if I was building up recovery time or whatever between drinking scenarios. I was just wasting myself nonetheless.
Addiction ambivalence is a process of both wanting and not wanting to use. Once using though, its pure addiction and no longer ambivalence. Once successfully thru the ambivalence, actual recovery can take place and so on leading to a recovered life free from addiction to alcohol.
Addiction ambivalence is a process of both wanting and not wanting to use. Once using though, its pure addiction and no longer ambivalence. Once successfully thru the ambivalence, actual recovery can take place and so on leading to a recovered life free from addiction to alcohol.
Try try again
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Hole-in-the-Wall TX
Posts: 88
I know that AA was established upon people helping people for real. Face to face. Not this virtual soap box of people spouting their interpretation of The Big Book while neglecting true suffering souls on this site desperately crying out for a way out of addiction. There is no ambivalence about love and friendship and a helping hand.
Perhaps I do not belong here.
Perhaps I do not belong here.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by SouthernBe11e 
I know that AA was established upon people helping people for real. Face to face. Not this virtual soap box of people spouting their interpretation of The Big Book while neglecting true suffering souls on this site desperately crying out for a way out of addiction. There is no ambivalence about love and friendship and a helping hand.
Perhaps I do not belong here.
Perhaps I do not belong here.
Of course you belong here
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 12,000
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
Originally Posted by SouthernBe11e
I know that AA was established upon people helping people for real. Face to face. Not this virtual soap box of people spouting their interpretation of The Big Book while neglecting true suffering souls on this site desperately crying out for a way out of addiction. There is no ambivalence about love and friendship and a helping hand.
Perhaps I do not belong here.
Perhaps I do not belong here.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
if I planned on( expected) I would drink again, I would.
I don't plan on(expect) to drink again, but I can only do that one day at a time. been workin pretty good that way for a while now. plus I put in the footwork to change me. still do that.
I don't plan on(expect) to drink again, but I can only do that one day at a time. been workin pretty good that way for a while now. plus I put in the footwork to change me. still do that.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Stoogy, I like your attitude and think that it is a strong predictor of your success. I treated my decision to get sober as taking an opportunity that was only ever going to come by once. A relapse was out of the question. It was simply never going to happen because I said so.
p***enger
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,025
I think Robby hit it pretty well. I did relapse but it wasn't part of my recovery. It was just me still being an addict. As long as I remain in a recovery way of living, I don't expect to relapse.
But, I prefer to avoid the question of the OP. If I start forming expectations for one thing or another, I get myself all involved in negotiations, longings, and building castles in the air, which, when they crash in my imagination, can seem to justify a drink or drug. So I'd just as soon stay in the day, thanks. I expect to stay sober until midnight.
But, I prefer to avoid the question of the OP. If I start forming expectations for one thing or another, I get myself all involved in negotiations, longings, and building castles in the air, which, when they crash in my imagination, can seem to justify a drink or drug. So I'd just as soon stay in the day, thanks. I expect to stay sober until midnight.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: London, ON
Posts: 114
I start each new day after drinking feeling like I won't do it again, so you could say I don't expect it. The problem is I know I have failed before and I can be on the bus home and suddenly feel like I can't be in my apartment sober - it is like I can't face the night, but I don't want to stay at work either.
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