My one year sober fellow -Non AA friend .
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Originally Posted by EndGameNYC 
Nothing new here. This is taken directly from the AA Big Book.
It's the first drink that triggers the phenomenon of craving which, in turn, leaves us powerless against the next or the next one hundred drinks.
It's the first drink that triggers the phenomenon of craving which, in turn, leaves us powerless against the next or the next one hundred drinks.
I don't know of anywhere where it suggests we get it back again. "Instead we are placed in a position of neutrality"
The very statements "we have no effective defence against the first "drink" "the strange mental blank spot" which I have experienced,are talking about powerlessness before the first drink, not after.
Agreed there are many choices in what we do about the problem, the steps, the solution.
Today, after more than 34 years sober in AA, I still don't have the power of choice, either way. But I am far from powerless in all other respects. Through the God of my understanding I have all the power I need to live happily and effectively in this world, and alcohol is just not part of that picture.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Out in the Sticks
Posts: 1,788
Originally Posted by Gottalife
That's news to me. The book suggests alcoholics our my type have "lost the power of choice in drink"
I don't know of anywhere where it suggests we get it back again. "Instead we are placed in a position of neutrality"
The very statements "we have no effective defence against the first "drink" "the strange mental blank spot" which I have experienced,are talking about powerlessness before the first drink, not after.
Agreed there are many choices in what we do about the problem, the steps, the solution.
Today, after more than 34 years sober in AA, I still don't have the power of choice, either way. But I am far from powerless in all other respects. Through the God of my understanding I have all the power I need to live happily and effectively in this world, and alcohol is just not part of that picture.
I don't know of anywhere where it suggests we get it back again. "Instead we are placed in a position of neutrality"
The very statements "we have no effective defence against the first "drink" "the strange mental blank spot" which I have experienced,are talking about powerlessness before the first drink, not after.
Agreed there are many choices in what we do about the problem, the steps, the solution.
Today, after more than 34 years sober in AA, I still don't have the power of choice, either way. But I am far from powerless in all other respects. Through the God of my understanding I have all the power I need to live happily and effectively in this world, and alcohol is just not part of that picture.
Its the right fit for me ,And I have learned quite a bit once I decided to listen .
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,474
The DNA 'Hand' I Was Dealt
My Retired Health/Sex Ex Teaching Wife has her standard and - over Decades - augmented 'Lesson Plans' for HS Classes. You don't just want to wing it for ~48 minutes in front of HS Kids, so they're her veritable Cue Cards for material she's taught 'fo evah'.
I recall seeing years ago in Lesson Plans that we Alks drink because 'we can't handle well the small setbacks in Life'. Why? Them's my Genes. Period. I'm fair-skinned, too. Reading this made a tremendous amount of Rational sense to me, and described me spot-on. Then, once this Adoptee dug some into the Genetics of my Biological Kin, my own 'Worse Case' combined background of Scottish and Polish Genes convinced me I've got the DNA to hit Alcohol [and assorted Drugs] hard, and tolerate large amounts of it. Meanwhile, Cave Drawings show Peoples fermenting, or chewing, things that get them high. More recent Accounts mention Yohimbe Bark; Coca Leaf; Peyote; you name it. Lotsa Folks simply like to 'get out there' to other Mental States. I sure do/did. To me, this is just part of the Bell Curve of Humanity, and explains 'Normies'; those who aren't DNA-wired to do this.
Then, as we all know, it ain't all fun and games anymore. After Decades, I 'got it' and simply stopped early this year. I've since been to a few Bars. We went to a Pal's House last night with my favorite Single Malt Scotch and Wine all around, and Jaybos being smoked outside by a few Folks. I had a good time and simply yucked it up, un-tempted. Will that go on 'forever'? For me, yes it will.
Throughout these Threads, the question keeps popping up: 'why did this Person or Spouse choose to alienate Family; lose their Job; get [repeated] DUIs; become abusive; wind up in Jail or the ER; tempt [or achieve] premature Death; and so on. I, somehow, did none of that. Speak and act stupidly, and make poor decisions? You betcha. Even while continually and sporadically emptying 'Handles' [1.75 L] of Booze. My conclusion is obvious to me: Folks aren't all voluntarily making those short-sighted 'choices'. The 'ache' I got, and read a lot of Science about, down in my very Joints caused me to duck into one of several Liquor Stores to keep those symptoms knocked down. Neuropathy; you name it. Awful stuff, as we all know. A key understanding, to me, is to skip the idea that, after some tipping point, it's a 'choice'. It was, for me, a Physiological imperative sans choice. Guitarist Eric Clapton and Stevie Ray Vaughn and Elton John went to Rehab. John Lennon quit Heroin himself sans Rehab, and wrote the Song 'Cold Turkey' about it. To each his own...
What some call 'stubbornness' others call 'tenacity'.
SR has been a great help; mainly in reading all the commonality to our Stories. A mid-60s Pal who up and quit Pot has been a help. I toughed it out and detoxed at Home, and opinions about that 'un-wiseness' are not news to me. I did not want a Detox or Rehab Session on my 'Record' in order to not jeopardize my Concealed Carry Permit; one I have for private, not LEO-related, reasons. We live in Nowhere, Colorado, and I need to carry sometimes. Right or wrong, I had something to 'prove' to my stubborn-Azz Self. You got yourself here, Pal, now get yourself out.
I'm mildly Spiritual, and I'm glad for those taking a very different path for what works for them. Once I make up my Mind about something, like not taking that first, debilitating Drink, 20 Mules can't drag me to do something different. Once I was past those initial, awful ~4 days, that is. This tenacity, too, I chalk up to Genetics. Whether objectively true or not, it doesn't matter to me. I believe it to be my best, and chosen, path forward, along with reflection and Habits Modification. The Spiritual Grand Poobah to do this is internalized. 'It' never leaves me because he lives inside me.
As with most all here, I like my new ways so much, the old ways just aren't an option. Plenty of converted Vegans don't return to eating Meat, either. Some do.
I don't regret for a femto-second that this took me as long to realize as it did. It took the amount of time required. I don't look back now, wistful or with regrets. Fundamental changes in my Life occurred exactly when they were meant to, and when they had to.
Karate, I thank you for re-posting this Link below. The Science in it is compelling; especially re: Twins. More important, it addresses aggregate Groups and trends. We each have our personal, one-off Stories. The larger Story of studying Groups speaks to me. This Science induces humility in me and profound respect for the DNA 'Hand' I was dealt.
Alcoholism - It's Not All In Your Mind
I recall seeing years ago in Lesson Plans that we Alks drink because 'we can't handle well the small setbacks in Life'. Why? Them's my Genes. Period. I'm fair-skinned, too. Reading this made a tremendous amount of Rational sense to me, and described me spot-on. Then, once this Adoptee dug some into the Genetics of my Biological Kin, my own 'Worse Case' combined background of Scottish and Polish Genes convinced me I've got the DNA to hit Alcohol [and assorted Drugs] hard, and tolerate large amounts of it. Meanwhile, Cave Drawings show Peoples fermenting, or chewing, things that get them high. More recent Accounts mention Yohimbe Bark; Coca Leaf; Peyote; you name it. Lotsa Folks simply like to 'get out there' to other Mental States. I sure do/did. To me, this is just part of the Bell Curve of Humanity, and explains 'Normies'; those who aren't DNA-wired to do this.
Then, as we all know, it ain't all fun and games anymore. After Decades, I 'got it' and simply stopped early this year. I've since been to a few Bars. We went to a Pal's House last night with my favorite Single Malt Scotch and Wine all around, and Jaybos being smoked outside by a few Folks. I had a good time and simply yucked it up, un-tempted. Will that go on 'forever'? For me, yes it will.
Throughout these Threads, the question keeps popping up: 'why did this Person or Spouse choose to alienate Family; lose their Job; get [repeated] DUIs; become abusive; wind up in Jail or the ER; tempt [or achieve] premature Death; and so on. I, somehow, did none of that. Speak and act stupidly, and make poor decisions? You betcha. Even while continually and sporadically emptying 'Handles' [1.75 L] of Booze. My conclusion is obvious to me: Folks aren't all voluntarily making those short-sighted 'choices'. The 'ache' I got, and read a lot of Science about, down in my very Joints caused me to duck into one of several Liquor Stores to keep those symptoms knocked down. Neuropathy; you name it. Awful stuff, as we all know. A key understanding, to me, is to skip the idea that, after some tipping point, it's a 'choice'. It was, for me, a Physiological imperative sans choice. Guitarist Eric Clapton and Stevie Ray Vaughn and Elton John went to Rehab. John Lennon quit Heroin himself sans Rehab, and wrote the Song 'Cold Turkey' about it. To each his own...
What some call 'stubbornness' others call 'tenacity'.
SR has been a great help; mainly in reading all the commonality to our Stories. A mid-60s Pal who up and quit Pot has been a help. I toughed it out and detoxed at Home, and opinions about that 'un-wiseness' are not news to me. I did not want a Detox or Rehab Session on my 'Record' in order to not jeopardize my Concealed Carry Permit; one I have for private, not LEO-related, reasons. We live in Nowhere, Colorado, and I need to carry sometimes. Right or wrong, I had something to 'prove' to my stubborn-Azz Self. You got yourself here, Pal, now get yourself out.
I'm mildly Spiritual, and I'm glad for those taking a very different path for what works for them. Once I make up my Mind about something, like not taking that first, debilitating Drink, 20 Mules can't drag me to do something different. Once I was past those initial, awful ~4 days, that is. This tenacity, too, I chalk up to Genetics. Whether objectively true or not, it doesn't matter to me. I believe it to be my best, and chosen, path forward, along with reflection and Habits Modification. The Spiritual Grand Poobah to do this is internalized. 'It' never leaves me because he lives inside me.
As with most all here, I like my new ways so much, the old ways just aren't an option. Plenty of converted Vegans don't return to eating Meat, either. Some do.
I don't regret for a femto-second that this took me as long to realize as it did. It took the amount of time required. I don't look back now, wistful or with regrets. Fundamental changes in my Life occurred exactly when they were meant to, and when they had to.
Karate, I thank you for re-posting this Link below. The Science in it is compelling; especially re: Twins. More important, it addresses aggregate Groups and trends. We each have our personal, one-off Stories. The larger Story of studying Groups speaks to me. This Science induces humility in me and profound respect for the DNA 'Hand' I was dealt.
Alcoholism - It's Not All In Your Mind
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Out in the Sticks
Posts: 1,788
Originally Posted by MesaMan
My Retired Health/Sex Ex Teaching Wife has her standard and - over Decades - augmented 'Lesson Plans' for HS Classes. You don't just want to wing it for ~48 minutes in front of HS Kids, so they're her veritable Cue Cards for material she's taught 'fo evah'.
I recall seeing years ago in Lesson Plans that we Alks drink because 'we can't handle well the small setbacks in Life'. Why? Them's my Genes. Period. I'm fair-skinned, too. Reading this made a tremendous amount of Rational sense to me, and described me spot-on. Then, once this Adoptee dug some into the Genetics of my Biological Kin, my own 'Worse Case' combined background of Scottish and Polish Genes convinced me I've got the DNA to hit Alcohol [and assorted Drugs] hard, and tolerate large amounts of it. Meanwhile, Cave Drawings show Peoples fermenting, or chewing, things that get them high. More recent Accounts mention Yohimbe Bark; Coca Leaf; Peyote; you name it. Lotsa Folks simply like to 'get out there' to other Mental States. I sure do/did. To me, this is just part of the Bell Curve of Humanity, and explains 'Normies'; those who aren't DNA-wired to do this.
Then, as we all know, it ain't all fun and games anymore. After Decades, I 'got it' and simply stopped early this year. I've since been to a few Bars. We went to a Pal's House last night with my favorite Single Malt Scotch and Wine all around, and Jaybos being smoked outside by a few Folks. I had a good time and simply yucked it up, un-tempted. Will that go on 'forever'? For me, yes it will.
Throughout these Threads, the question keeps popping up: 'why did this Person or Spouse choose to alienate Family; lose their Job; get [repeated] DUIs; become abusive; wind up in Jail or the ER; tempt [or achieve] premature Death; and so on. I, somehow, did none of that. Speak and act stupidly, and make poor decisions? You betcha. Even while continually and sporadically emptying 'Handles' [1.75 L] of Booze. My conclusion is obvious to me: Folks aren't all voluntarily making those short-sighted 'choices'. The 'ache' I got, and read a lot of Science about, down in my very Joints caused me to duck into one of several Liquor Stores to keep those symptoms knocked down. Neuropathy; you name it. Awful stuff, as we all know. A key understanding, to me, is to skip the idea that, after some tipping point, it's a 'choice'. It was, for me, a Physiological imperative sans choice. Guitarist Eric Clapton and Stevie Ray Vaughn and Elton John went to Rehab. John Lennon quit Heroin himself sans Rehab, and wrote the Song 'Cold Turkey' about it. To each his own...
What some call 'stubbornness' others call 'tenacity'.
SR has been a great help; mainly in reading all the commonality to our Stories. A mid-60s Pal who up and quit Pot has been a help. I toughed it out and detoxed at Home, and opinions about that 'un-wiseness' are not news to me. I did not want a Detox or Rehab Session on my 'Record' in order to not jeopardize my Concealed Carry Permit; one I have for private, not LEO-related, reasons. We live in Nowhere, Colorado, and I need to carry sometimes. Right or wrong, I had something to 'prove' to my stubborn-Azz Self. You got yourself here, Pal, now get yourself out.
I'm mildly Spiritual, and I'm glad for those taking a very different path for what works for them. Once I make up my Mind about something, like not taking that first, debilitating Drink, 20 Mules can't drag me to do something different. Once I was past those initial, awful ~4 days, that is. This tenacity, too, I chalk up to Genetics. Whether objectively true or not, it doesn't matter to me. I believe it to be my best, and chosen, path forward, along with reflection and Habits Modification. The Spiritual Grand Poobah to do this is internalized. 'It' never leaves me because he lives inside me.
As with most all here, I like my new ways so much, the old ways just aren't an option. Plenty of converted Vegans don't return to eating Meat, either. Some do.
I don't regret for a femto-second that this took me as long to realize as it did. It took the amount of time required. I don't look back now, wistful or with regrets. Fundamental changes in my Life occurred exactly when they were meant to, and when they had to.
Karate, I thank you for re-posting this Link below. The Science in it is compelling; especially re: Twins. More important, it addresses aggregate Groups and trends. We each have our personal, one-off Stories. The larger Story of studying Groups speaks to me. This Science induces humility in me and profound respect for the DNA 'Hand' I was dealt.
Alcoholism - It's Not All In Your Mind
I recall seeing years ago in Lesson Plans that we Alks drink because 'we can't handle well the small setbacks in Life'. Why? Them's my Genes. Period. I'm fair-skinned, too. Reading this made a tremendous amount of Rational sense to me, and described me spot-on. Then, once this Adoptee dug some into the Genetics of my Biological Kin, my own 'Worse Case' combined background of Scottish and Polish Genes convinced me I've got the DNA to hit Alcohol [and assorted Drugs] hard, and tolerate large amounts of it. Meanwhile, Cave Drawings show Peoples fermenting, or chewing, things that get them high. More recent Accounts mention Yohimbe Bark; Coca Leaf; Peyote; you name it. Lotsa Folks simply like to 'get out there' to other Mental States. I sure do/did. To me, this is just part of the Bell Curve of Humanity, and explains 'Normies'; those who aren't DNA-wired to do this.
Then, as we all know, it ain't all fun and games anymore. After Decades, I 'got it' and simply stopped early this year. I've since been to a few Bars. We went to a Pal's House last night with my favorite Single Malt Scotch and Wine all around, and Jaybos being smoked outside by a few Folks. I had a good time and simply yucked it up, un-tempted. Will that go on 'forever'? For me, yes it will.
Throughout these Threads, the question keeps popping up: 'why did this Person or Spouse choose to alienate Family; lose their Job; get [repeated] DUIs; become abusive; wind up in Jail or the ER; tempt [or achieve] premature Death; and so on. I, somehow, did none of that. Speak and act stupidly, and make poor decisions? You betcha. Even while continually and sporadically emptying 'Handles' [1.75 L] of Booze. My conclusion is obvious to me: Folks aren't all voluntarily making those short-sighted 'choices'. The 'ache' I got, and read a lot of Science about, down in my very Joints caused me to duck into one of several Liquor Stores to keep those symptoms knocked down. Neuropathy; you name it. Awful stuff, as we all know. A key understanding, to me, is to skip the idea that, after some tipping point, it's a 'choice'. It was, for me, a Physiological imperative sans choice. Guitarist Eric Clapton and Stevie Ray Vaughn and Elton John went to Rehab. John Lennon quit Heroin himself sans Rehab, and wrote the Song 'Cold Turkey' about it. To each his own...
What some call 'stubbornness' others call 'tenacity'.
SR has been a great help; mainly in reading all the commonality to our Stories. A mid-60s Pal who up and quit Pot has been a help. I toughed it out and detoxed at Home, and opinions about that 'un-wiseness' are not news to me. I did not want a Detox or Rehab Session on my 'Record' in order to not jeopardize my Concealed Carry Permit; one I have for private, not LEO-related, reasons. We live in Nowhere, Colorado, and I need to carry sometimes. Right or wrong, I had something to 'prove' to my stubborn-Azz Self. You got yourself here, Pal, now get yourself out.
I'm mildly Spiritual, and I'm glad for those taking a very different path for what works for them. Once I make up my Mind about something, like not taking that first, debilitating Drink, 20 Mules can't drag me to do something different. Once I was past those initial, awful ~4 days, that is. This tenacity, too, I chalk up to Genetics. Whether objectively true or not, it doesn't matter to me. I believe it to be my best, and chosen, path forward, along with reflection and Habits Modification. The Spiritual Grand Poobah to do this is internalized. 'It' never leaves me because he lives inside me.
As with most all here, I like my new ways so much, the old ways just aren't an option. Plenty of converted Vegans don't return to eating Meat, either. Some do.
I don't regret for a femto-second that this took me as long to realize as it did. It took the amount of time required. I don't look back now, wistful or with regrets. Fundamental changes in my Life occurred exactly when they were meant to, and when they had to.
Karate, I thank you for re-posting this Link below. The Science in it is compelling; especially re: Twins. More important, it addresses aggregate Groups and trends. We each have our personal, one-off Stories. The larger Story of studying Groups speaks to me. This Science induces humility in me and profound respect for the DNA 'Hand' I was dealt.
Alcoholism - It's Not All In Your Mind
Im actually thinking of going back to my old AA group and distributing copies of the article .
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