I hate when people say it's a choice.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: KC MO
Posts: 980
You might say this is Bogus,and it's nothing but a fictional story. But I found this several years ago,and often think about it. Thinking about this little story has saved me from a lot of crap more times than I can count.
There is a reason some people can turn crap into a rose.
you have two choices - YouTube
Fred
There is a reason some people can turn crap into a rose.
you have two choices - YouTube
Fred
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 51,537
An excellent thread JTBIV. I'm so glad you wanted to discuss your feelings. Excellent responses - I have nothing to add - I just hope with all my heart you will find what works for you and get free. I drank all my life & had to be brought to my knees. This never needs to happen to you. 
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Calif
Posts: 757
JTBIV
yes i too had to care for people with cirrhosis too. yea they were just a shell of there former selfs, swollen stomachs, yellow and mentally not all there. i think what really got to me was a guy 27 years old was like that, and i thought to my self, wow that can be me, he is so young and look at him.
JTBIV, you too can stop. it is difficult but do able. yea you are right addiction is so strong. but your will to stop can be stronger. i had to learn that.
from reading your post, you have too much to loose, your career, all that you earned, your freedom, even your life.
you can do it bro.
yes i too had to care for people with cirrhosis too. yea they were just a shell of there former selfs, swollen stomachs, yellow and mentally not all there. i think what really got to me was a guy 27 years old was like that, and i thought to my self, wow that can be me, he is so young and look at him.
JTBIV, you too can stop. it is difficult but do able. yea you are right addiction is so strong. but your will to stop can be stronger. i had to learn that.
from reading your post, you have too much to loose, your career, all that you earned, your freedom, even your life.
you can do it bro.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 639
If you are a real alcoholic the only choice you have is whether you pick up the first drink or find some form of recovery. Once an alcoholic such as myself takes the first drink, our choice is lost. I wish you the best and recommend AA.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,785
Originally Posted by SoulSister 
AA is a program for people that have lost the power of choice.
I think it is more what you do with the choice. You can choose to work the program, take suggestions, do the steps, give back and learn to live sober.
Or
You can choose not to.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by Brian316
If you are a real alcoholic the only choice you have is whether you pick up the first drink or find some form of recovery. Once an alcoholic such as myself takes the first drink, our choice is lost. I wish you the best and recommend AA.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by JTBIV
I want to stop. I see end stage liver failure patients laying in bed looking like yellow bloated see hags not resembling even a shell of their former selves. I've had to manage young alcoholics airways as other staff tie them to the bed because they are so out of their mind detoxing they don't know reality from the hallucinations. I see alcoholics die of seizures. I see almost daily the complete mess life as an addict is. Yet I drink, still. I know its probably because I can't admit to anyone else I have a problem. I try to quit alone and it doesn't work. Do I have to wait until I'm on deaths door before I have the courage to admit my problem to the people in my life. Wtf does it take? I know I need a support system to make this work but why can't I tell anyone. Choice is funny.
the first thing ya may want to do is want to stop drinking. you know where its gonna take ya and know ya need to stop, but without wanting to stop, im not sure how that will work.
many of us on here have seen the tragedies and horrors of what alcohol/drugs do. many of us knew that could be us. that didn't help many of us. it was when we wanted to stop drinking and decided we would do whatever was necessary to stop, reached out for help, then took the actions necessary that sobriety started.
Redmayne
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Manchester, England, UK.
Posts: 1,543
I never had any choice....
Personally I never looked for choices, perhaps because all my life has been a mixture of choice and circumstance, weighed heavily in favour of circumstance...
I didn't chose to be born with alcoholism and therefore be a 'real alcoholic', before I even drank any alcohol!
See Chapter 3,p.30 of the book 'Alcoholics Anonymous'. Which starts,'Most of us were unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics.' For a fuller explanation of this term..
So anything to do with my alcoholism, recovery and now prolonged (6 years)of sobriety. A day at a time. Had nothing to do with choice and everything to do with adopting the way of life in the suggested 12 Step program of recovery...
Enhanced by my belief, note not faith, that involves choice, in the God of my understanding...
Together with my interest in fundamental Buddhist philosophy/ psychology. Same thing really, which without any conscious choice on my part introduced itself to me one day, on a trip to my local library. Not exactly known as a seat of cultural learning and understanding...
So for me, everything about my alcoholism, recovery and sobriety is a way of life, and the question of choice hasn't and doesn't come into it...
I didn't chose to be born with alcoholism and therefore be a 'real alcoholic', before I even drank any alcohol!
See Chapter 3,p.30 of the book 'Alcoholics Anonymous'. Which starts,'Most of us were unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics.' For a fuller explanation of this term..
So anything to do with my alcoholism, recovery and now prolonged (6 years)of sobriety. A day at a time. Had nothing to do with choice and everything to do with adopting the way of life in the suggested 12 Step program of recovery...
Enhanced by my belief, note not faith, that involves choice, in the God of my understanding...
Together with my interest in fundamental Buddhist philosophy/ psychology. Same thing really, which without any conscious choice on my part introduced itself to me one day, on a trip to my local library. Not exactly known as a seat of cultural learning and understanding...
So for me, everything about my alcoholism, recovery and sobriety is a way of life, and the question of choice hasn't and doesn't come into it...
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 12,000
JTBIV, Is it a choice?, Is it a choice? Really, is it a choice? Being able to have enough reason to ask such a question answers the question for you. It is almost oxymoronic in the context of the question itself.
If you are already seeking an alternative to the situation, then you have a choice.
If you are already seeking an alternative to the situation, then you have a choice.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,949
For me it's a choice. everything. To become an alcohol addict. To quit alcohol. I keep it simple. The subcosncious takes over when the conscious is asleep. I can use the conscious to take over the subconscious. I think we know when we are drinking that it is a choice. We don't need people to tell us we are feathers in the wind
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Here, EH!!!
Posts: 1,337
Well it boils down to a choice to some extent. Especially when you are 100% sober. But once you got that booze down your throat, there is absolutely no choice in the matter at all. See the insanity of it all (before we take that first drink when we are 100% sober) is we drink on a lie, you choose to drink on a lie. What is that lie? It will be different this time, I will have fun this time, Nothing bad will happen, I deserve a drink. Knowing full well what happens to you when you get drunk, yet you choose to still drink on some sort of lie. The mind forgets all the bad things that has happened. Yet we still choose to do nothing about it. Yet again insanity. Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.
It all boils down to what are you willing to do to change?
Are you willing to go to any lengths, for that change?
Do you want to put in the time, feeling awkward and ashamed?
Or do you want to go on until the bitter end, blotting out a drunken, alcoholic life?
It all boils down to what are you willing to do to change?
Are you willing to go to any lengths, for that change?
Do you want to put in the time, feeling awkward and ashamed?
Or do you want to go on until the bitter end, blotting out a drunken, alcoholic life?
Recovered from Hopeless State
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 2,156
I'm glad you've gotten started on your recovery by coming here JTBIV. I didn't get here until after I already started with AA. AA is not the only route but I found it the easiest to get started in because there are meetings everywhere, every night. If you're interested here's the list for your area:
Find a Meeting
Find a Meeting
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Only a relatively small percentage of sufferers of alcohol use disorder lose the power of choice. The AA Big Book is very clear on this, and one defining characteristic of the real alcoholic is the loss of the power of choice in drink.
If you haven't experienced that loss of choice you have no idea what you are talking about. There is nothing more soul destroying than to be told you need to fight harder, it's just a matter of will power, just make a decision, you can choose, when you have tried and tried and just keep getting nearer to death.
But even with us, there do seem to be occasional windows of opportunity and willingness, usualy immediately after a bad spree, where we might be open to getting some help. They don't last long before the insanity returns, but if we take advantage of them (that small window where we could choose to get help) often the insanity will stay away.
Not always though. That's why AAs requirement for membership does not include the requirement to be sober. The lack of power is understood. We continue to work with people who slip 9as long as they are willing) and eventually something happens that changes their life.
I came to AA a hopeless, powerless drunk. I shared that desperation you are talking about. I couldn't stop drinking. My IQ was reduced to about my shoe size, I had lost the ability to think. I began to try and follow the suggestions in the most child like way. My number one objective was to try and do what other AAs had done. I didn't take a note of the date as I did not think it would work.
Then one day my sponsor rang to tell me I had been sober for 3 months. I couldn't believe it! Sobriety had come almost as a by-product of trying to live the program.
Today, I still don't have the power of choice. You can't call it a choice when its don't drink or drink and die, unless you call it Hobsons choice which is no choice at all.
Instead I have been place in a position of neutrality, safe and protected. I no longer need to make that choice, the alcohol problem hase been removed.
There was one choice I did make. That was to check out AA through a 12 step call. I liked what I heard and was willing to go to any lengths.
If you haven't experienced that loss of choice you have no idea what you are talking about. There is nothing more soul destroying than to be told you need to fight harder, it's just a matter of will power, just make a decision, you can choose, when you have tried and tried and just keep getting nearer to death.
But even with us, there do seem to be occasional windows of opportunity and willingness, usualy immediately after a bad spree, where we might be open to getting some help. They don't last long before the insanity returns, but if we take advantage of them (that small window where we could choose to get help) often the insanity will stay away.
Not always though. That's why AAs requirement for membership does not include the requirement to be sober. The lack of power is understood. We continue to work with people who slip 9as long as they are willing) and eventually something happens that changes their life.
I came to AA a hopeless, powerless drunk. I shared that desperation you are talking about. I couldn't stop drinking. My IQ was reduced to about my shoe size, I had lost the ability to think. I began to try and follow the suggestions in the most child like way. My number one objective was to try and do what other AAs had done. I didn't take a note of the date as I did not think it would work.
Then one day my sponsor rang to tell me I had been sober for 3 months. I couldn't believe it! Sobriety had come almost as a by-product of trying to live the program.
Today, I still don't have the power of choice. You can't call it a choice when its don't drink or drink and die, unless you call it Hobsons choice which is no choice at all.
Instead I have been place in a position of neutrality, safe and protected. I no longer need to make that choice, the alcohol problem hase been removed.
There was one choice I did make. That was to check out AA through a 12 step call. I liked what I heard and was willing to go to any lengths.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,949
My experience in heavy drinking and liver damage is in no way similar too most or any alcohol abusers. I never lost my choice to drink or not drink. I can be honest with myself. Being honest makes it a lot clearer and easier for me to move on and grow in any aspect of my life. I knew it was a choice before I drank. I knew it was a choice while i was 2 beers
in and 30 beers in. I know it is a choice in sobriety. Losing your choice to physically go to a liquor store or bar, purchase liquor then pour it down my throat doesn't make any real sense to me. I don't think it's right that people are told they have no control. I don't think it's a stance heavy drinkers come to their own conclusion on before they are given ideas or literature which is impossible to avoid in this society. To me the simplest
approach is right. 1+1=2. 1+1 doesn't sometimes =3. I think it's better to tell people they have control over their drinking at least in the long run.....i don't mean to offend but it seems common sense to me. It has worked for me and it has worked for many others
in and 30 beers in. I know it is a choice in sobriety. Losing your choice to physically go to a liquor store or bar, purchase liquor then pour it down my throat doesn't make any real sense to me. I don't think it's right that people are told they have no control. I don't think it's a stance heavy drinkers come to their own conclusion on before they are given ideas or literature which is impossible to avoid in this society. To me the simplest
approach is right. 1+1=2. 1+1 doesn't sometimes =3. I think it's better to tell people they have control over their drinking at least in the long run.....i don't mean to offend but it seems common sense to me. It has worked for me and it has worked for many others
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Originally Posted by caboblanco
M. I never lost my choice to drink or not drink
I have never experienced serious depression, but I know it exists. For me to suggest to the depressed person that it's just a matter of choice, that they should just pull their socks up, just be happy like the rest of us, would be ridiculous if not cruel.
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