Psychic change
Poison Eater Extraordinaire
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: East Coast, USA
Posts: 1,031
Psychic change
I have gotten sober, and relapsed so many times it is not even funny. All I can tell you is, with complete honesty, a "change" in how I think has happened in order for me to get sober. It has happened every, single, time. A change and determination has taken place.
It just isn't happening. I'm not going to get *too* psychoanalytical here, but I think unless that change takes place, the person is stuck. If you *truly* can't see the reason as to how living sober would be better living half drunk, then how can you change?
I don't post here too much anymore. Because, I know that unless I make my mind up to be sober - I won't do it...so what is the point in drunk posting. But I just, simply, cannot make my mind up to getting sober. This is where I think it is a mental sickness. I just can't get out of this loop.
It just isn't happening. I'm not going to get *too* psychoanalytical here, but I think unless that change takes place, the person is stuck. If you *truly* can't see the reason as to how living sober would be better living half drunk, then how can you change?
I don't post here too much anymore. Because, I know that unless I make my mind up to be sober - I won't do it...so what is the point in drunk posting. But I just, simply, cannot make my mind up to getting sober. This is where I think it is a mental sickness. I just can't get out of this loop.
voices ca**y
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,352
There are some posters on here that said they were not all that happy about quitting but as they progressed it got to that point were they got that shift. A shift in thinking is nice but probably not necessary. The thing that shifted my thinking was that this was really out of control. You already know how bad this is and it gets worse and worse the longer you go. I hope your not waiting for some "magic moment". That could easily be used an reason to keep putting yourself through this.
voices ca**y
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,352
What did you realize the first couple of times? I had one of those magic moments and I still tried to relapse at 3 months. That moment alone was not enough for me. Whatever you decide I hope you keep posting. Don't let it get you all alone.
Recovering ostrich
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida
Posts: 2,551
I don't think it's a realization. I think at first it is white knuckling and uncomfortable and that eventually turns into auto pilot as long as you are focusing on your recovery. Please don't wait for an epiphany.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,949
I think it's true too. people are very practical about their addiction..in their minds especially in their subconscious if they truly don't believe there is a significant enough award in life for them to get sober...they will continue to drink
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
We can talk ourselves out of anything.
In all my years of practice, waiting around for a psychic change or a motivating and life-changing insight never works. We make changes in our behavior, and then and only then, do we assess whether or not they were for better or worse. Later on in the process, we come to understand why those changes were meaningful, even necessary.
Put down the drink first. You can worry about achieving the wisdom of the Dalai Lama after you put together some sober time.
In all my years of practice, waiting around for a psychic change or a motivating and life-changing insight never works. We make changes in our behavior, and then and only then, do we assess whether or not they were for better or worse. Later on in the process, we come to understand why those changes were meaningful, even necessary.
Put down the drink first. You can worry about achieving the wisdom of the Dalai Lama after you put together some sober time.
Grateful
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 1,763
For me I didn't experience a psychic change until I worked the steps. I wasn't able to work the steps until I got (and stayed) sober. I have heard that some people have had an "epiphany" and suddenly stopped drinking but it is exceedingly rare. Most people have to get sober first before they are able to change the way they think.
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
I agree with you freethinking. You have to make a decision to get sober. Minus that, the consequences of your drinking will likely be what changes the equation. I hope that those consequences are not catastrophic. Some people find that nothing less is required, but at that point, the clock cannot be turned back. I hope you don't need to go there.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Christchurch
Posts: 451
I was trying to quit for years and would white knuckle up to 3 months as I could not drink due to working and living in dry communities in Australia. As soon as my 3 month contracts finished I would drink myself into oblivion. The only difference this time is I have been confronted by my husband and family about my drunken behaviour. I have no desire to drink again as I have experienced the feeling of being sober for longer and can't imagine living through another hangover.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern Us
Posts: 1,366
I agree that some change in perspective must take place for one to get sober. You mention that this shift has happened to you each time you get sober. But obviously this shift isn't enough to keep you content in sobriety. For me, I hand to make a one time decision that I will not drink again. Ever. Regardless how I feel about that in some future moment. It's not that I cease to think about it, I just won't do it. For me, it has become a ethical/moral decision. I can't drink responsibly, so I don't do it.
I hope you find your way as the in and out of sobriety is painful.
I hope you find your way as the in and out of sobriety is painful.
Mini Novel Post Writer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,649
There's no doubt about the fact that you have to want this. You have to want to be sober more than you want to drink regardless of the conditions.
Please don't give up. There are threads on here where people ask those who have been in recovery for a while what gift they would give the newcomers if possible. Mine would be the ability to see, if just for one day, how good life can really be once you get past the early stages.
Where I was afraid of what my life would be when I quit, and was so concerned about the big void I was going to have to fill, I wish that I could have seen the future. I realize now where I thought that alcohol was what made life worth living it actually kept me from living the life that I deserved. Alcohol is one big, fat, lie. It just takes some time between you and that last drink to find that out.
You CAN do this, you have to want it though.
Please don't give up. There are threads on here where people ask those who have been in recovery for a while what gift they would give the newcomers if possible. Mine would be the ability to see, if just for one day, how good life can really be once you get past the early stages.
Where I was afraid of what my life would be when I quit, and was so concerned about the big void I was going to have to fill, I wish that I could have seen the future. I realize now where I thought that alcohol was what made life worth living it actually kept me from living the life that I deserved. Alcohol is one big, fat, lie. It just takes some time between you and that last drink to find that out.
You CAN do this, you have to want it though.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
I think you are putting the cart before the horse. Yes, you have to have the psychic change for the obsession to be removed. But this comes later. The first step (I used this verb on purpose) is just getting sober. For me recovery did not start in the first 30 days - just being and staying sober did.
You have to change your variables if you keep going through the spin cycle. Perhaps you are surrounded by enablers and you have not experienced the consequences? You are going to loose your marriage and your kids. You will likely loose you house and you are already loosing your health (drinking mouthwash). You may or may not loose your freedom based on what you do. Maybe at some point in this process enough may be enough but it does not sound like you either care or believe in these consequences.
None of us can do this for you. 15% of people recover, which means 85% must fail. Maybe your not destined to be one of the lucky ones? I hope you are though, as you seem interesting and worth the effort.
You have to change your variables if you keep going through the spin cycle. Perhaps you are surrounded by enablers and you have not experienced the consequences? You are going to loose your marriage and your kids. You will likely loose you house and you are already loosing your health (drinking mouthwash). You may or may not loose your freedom based on what you do. Maybe at some point in this process enough may be enough but it does not sound like you either care or believe in these consequences.
None of us can do this for you. 15% of people recover, which means 85% must fail. Maybe your not destined to be one of the lucky ones? I hope you are though, as you seem interesting and worth the effort.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
I was not really caring about sobriety or the better life I could live if I quit and stayed quit. Drinking was how I made sense of myself, and even though I knew I was killing myself, I drank anyways. Not really wanting to die as a drunk drunk is what saved me. What the hell did I know of sobriety? Sobriety was a useless future dream to me. The so-called good life looked like just another delusional mirage in my hopeless sea of self-hatred and self-centeredness.
Quitting drinking required me to physically not pickup. This was something real to me. I could do this - not pick up. I knew it meant going thru detox hell. I also knew from my history of failed quits I could never pick up again. I committed to the never again and this finally worked for me because along with never I also reached out to others. My peers in recovery. We all struggled together. We all wanted to quit. We all didn't stay quit.
For me, the psychic change came after my struggles with quitting forced me into an appreciation of nothing changes if nothing changes. Even though I was struggling with my delusional self-hate, I was also struggling towards dumping all that hate for love. What is love? Back when, I had faith that drinking was more hate and not drinking was more love. It was enough to keep me moving forward. Helping others help themselves and help me was really the gift that gave me my freedom from my self-hate. Ironically, my alcoholism was chump change compared to the cost of my self-hatred. As this understanding played out, I completed my rehab stay and my AA 12 steps and what was will never be again.
For me, sobriety was only important after my psychic changes and not before. Like I'm saying though, I did quit before my psychic changes, so I'm saying quitting works all the time, and sets us up for better then what we had before we quit. Quitting is enough in itself when the alternative is more dying. More can always come later for the better life after the quit is successful.
YOU can quit too, Free. I believe in YOU.
Quitting drinking required me to physically not pickup. This was something real to me. I could do this - not pick up. I knew it meant going thru detox hell. I also knew from my history of failed quits I could never pick up again. I committed to the never again and this finally worked for me because along with never I also reached out to others. My peers in recovery. We all struggled together. We all wanted to quit. We all didn't stay quit.
For me, the psychic change came after my struggles with quitting forced me into an appreciation of nothing changes if nothing changes. Even though I was struggling with my delusional self-hate, I was also struggling towards dumping all that hate for love. What is love? Back when, I had faith that drinking was more hate and not drinking was more love. It was enough to keep me moving forward. Helping others help themselves and help me was really the gift that gave me my freedom from my self-hate. Ironically, my alcoholism was chump change compared to the cost of my self-hatred. As this understanding played out, I completed my rehab stay and my AA 12 steps and what was will never be again.
For me, sobriety was only important after my psychic changes and not before. Like I'm saying though, I did quit before my psychic changes, so I'm saying quitting works all the time, and sets us up for better then what we had before we quit. Quitting is enough in itself when the alternative is more dying. More can always come later for the better life after the quit is successful.
YOU can quit too, Free. I believe in YOU.
Poison Eater Extraordinaire
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: East Coast, USA
Posts: 1,031
Every minute, after a certain point in the day, seems excruciating to go through sober.
I don't have much to say here. Other than, the people here who are sober seem like foreign entities to me. I can't imagine being sober anymore. I can't imagine feeling anywhere near *good* being sober.
I guess the last thing I want to get off my chest is, I don't feel AA is for me. *If* I am going to get sober, I don't think I can do AA. But getting sober without telling my husband I will do AA is going to be awful. He won't believe I can get sober without AA. And without him believing in me doing it another way, it will be very difficult to get sober...because right now, I am not at my mentally strongest. Anyone even "suggesting" I cannot get sober having a different plan, has tremendous effects.
I don't have much to say here. Other than, the people here who are sober seem like foreign entities to me. I can't imagine being sober anymore. I can't imagine feeling anywhere near *good* being sober.
I guess the last thing I want to get off my chest is, I don't feel AA is for me. *If* I am going to get sober, I don't think I can do AA. But getting sober without telling my husband I will do AA is going to be awful. He won't believe I can get sober without AA. And without him believing in me doing it another way, it will be very difficult to get sober...because right now, I am not at my mentally strongest. Anyone even "suggesting" I cannot get sober having a different plan, has tremendous effects.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
AA is not the only way forward. We all know this to be true. You know it too, Free. 
Quitting is what it is for any of us. Like I said earlier. Sobriety meant nothing to me when I last quit.
Its clear to me you want to quit drinking Free. Its also clear to me you have placed unreasonable demands and qualifications to your quitting drinking. Its my opinion quitting is difficult enough without conditions.
I believe I am, and others too, we are respecting your sensitivity and fragility.
Quitting can be just what it is, if you see that working for yourself. Do you see quitting itself as a choice? Do you see that making that choice is in itself enough for today?
I do.
Quitting is what it is for any of us. Like I said earlier. Sobriety meant nothing to me when I last quit.
Its clear to me you want to quit drinking Free. Its also clear to me you have placed unreasonable demands and qualifications to your quitting drinking. Its my opinion quitting is difficult enough without conditions.
I believe I am, and others too, we are respecting your sensitivity and fragility.
Quitting can be just what it is, if you see that working for yourself. Do you see quitting itself as a choice? Do you see that making that choice is in itself enough for today?
I do.
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 383
You are actually dead on about motivation - we all need some sort of motivation to get sober, and other people's motivations won't necessarily work for you. Believe it or not you are much farther along towards getting sober than you realize - you're close. You are seeking motivation - you are in a state of ambivalence about drinking - you want to stop, have reasons to stop, but your addiction feels too strong and honestly you're not 100% sure you can or even want to right? AA isn't a magic pill, so don't fixate on that - no one is forcing you to AA. I got sober in AA but I had my own motivations that I don't need to go into.
What might really help you is meeting with a drug and alcohol counselor. Look for one who uses "motivational interviewing" as part of their approach. They will partner with you to help explore your dilemma and discover what, if any, motivations you have to quit, and determine if you wish to seek treatment. Then, after counseling if you find you want to seek treatment, she/he can help link you to it. That is a concrete thing you can do, that is not AA, that allows you plenty of choice, and is a step towards sobriety. Here's a link to a place that will help you find a professional counselor near you:
Find a Counselor
What might really help you is meeting with a drug and alcohol counselor. Look for one who uses "motivational interviewing" as part of their approach. They will partner with you to help explore your dilemma and discover what, if any, motivations you have to quit, and determine if you wish to seek treatment. Then, after counseling if you find you want to seek treatment, she/he can help link you to it. That is a concrete thing you can do, that is not AA, that allows you plenty of choice, and is a step towards sobriety. Here's a link to a place that will help you find a professional counselor near you:
Find a Counselor
voices ca**y
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,352
I don't go to AA. I might someday because I feel like I should start building a safety net while I am still in my right mind. I know if I end up relapsing I will be pretty much helpless to devise a plan. There are other groups specifically for women that I will probably end up using. Sobriety at first can seem like some alternative crappy reality but believe me that gets replaced with feeling like you just escaped from hell.
We had a little sync moment today Freethinking. I got in my car to hear the words "magic moment " blaring out of the radio. 90's on niiine was playing this song at about 6:20am Minnesota time.
We had a little sync moment today Freethinking. I got in my car to hear the words "magic moment " blaring out of the radio. 90's on niiine was playing this song at about 6:20am Minnesota time.
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