caboblanco

Where does this saying come from? I hear it with recovery people a lot. it annoys the heck out of me to tell you the truth. I"m more of a "Don't judge a book by it's cover" kind of guy. not to mention I hear this saying in news

articles a lot and it seems to have racial undertones. Seems very ignorant. i don't go for the simplistic thinking type thing in my recovery and life in general..what about you guys? "If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a suck..maybe it's trying to fool you into thinking it's a duck" and it worked!

soberclover

I use this saying but changed a lot with my students....I add that if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and looks like a duck....it's a duck! When I have a student who is acting a certain way or doing something a certain way but is verbalizing that they aren't, I use this to help them understand that to an outside observer....they are seeing/hearing something different.

doggonecarl

A duck clearly demonstrates duck-like qualities. It walks likes a duck, quacks like a duck. Jumps in the water and swims like a duck. Observing how it behaves, one can clearly determine that they are observing a duck.

Same with addicts and alcoholics. Non-recovery behaviours in the addict, like duck behaviour, are clearly observed by everyone...but the duck himself.

caboblanco

I think some of us have been watching too much Dr. Phil.

i don't think addicts have a set of behaviors they generally all do..that's junk science perpetuated by popular culture...they only thing they all do is abuse alcohol or drugs

doggonecarl

Sell that to the loved ones of an addict or an alcoholic.

tomsteve

seems to me if yer a "Don't judge a book by it's cover" kind of guy, it wouldn't annoy you.

caboblanco

I would tell them that because it's the truth. why do I have to tell them something that is not the truth? why would this misinformation help them in any way?

caboblanco

it annoys me because that saying you should judge a book by it's cover. it usually pertains to misguiding stereotypes...

TomSawyer

In terms of recovery, I think it's a measuring stick when presented with the concept of denial. If it objectively behaves like an alcoholic, it's an alcoholic, no matter the potentially denial-fueled subjective belief. i.e. in my own case: physical dependence on alcohol + problem drinking + continued drinking despite negative consequences = alcoholic (despite what I believed for a long time - that I was not an alcoholic).

That's all it is in recovery terms, nothing more. When used properly there's nothing denigrating about it.

Getbetteragain

My first go in recovery - AA - to be more specific we called the behavior quirks that this alludes to as "isms". We all had a bunch of them and it was evident we all had the same problems to watch out for. There are certain behaviors that it seems to me all alcoholics have and I am fairly certain this is the same with addicts. We are extremely good at convincing ourselves or at least I am that just one will do. Well in my case 1 + 1 +1+1+1+1+1+1 etc..... One of my little isms! If you wanted to call it a duck, it would be the same thing!

Longpasttime

I would agree with Tom and Carl, telling myself (or you) im not an alcoholic whille getting blackout drunk all the time is either a lie or denial. Maybe actions speak louder than words is more comfortable? It all kind of gets to the same concept. Although I will probably want to punch myself for asking, why do you think its racial in any way? As we talk about observation and perception of others, it gets into interesting philosophy and science. Check out Occams razor as it applies here. I already regret replying so let me end with I wish us all the best in our recovery!!

readerbaby71

That saying has been applied to all kinds of things and people for ages. My dad used to say it when I was growing up. It's not just an alcoholic thing.

caboblanco

Well for example I remember the Travon Martin case and in a couple news articles I saw this quote as pertaining to travon..Ive also seen it the other way around where it is used to describe tea party members as all horrible racists..I'm sure they both have to do with skin color,,age ..and negative stereotypes

For one thing..I was never in denial...I know many addicts that were also not in denial..they just saw it as something to get through a day to get stoned or drunk...I don't like to judge others addiction or recovery just because I'm an addict myself. I also don't agree with going out in the world and trying to save addicts because now you are an expert. I would say to just show people compassion and love but not to judge.

readerbaby71

I agree with you that it should NOT be used in a racial context based simply on how someone looks or carries themselves. The Trayvon Martin case was a HUGE injustice, but that's for another discussion. I think the saying does apply to people's ACTIONS more than looks or what they say.

TomSawyer

Anybody who uses this idiom with in any sort of serious real world context would be wise to note that it's actually a logical fallacy. Walk like duck + talk like duck =/= duck. So yeah, if you're hearing this in racial contexts or even serious recovery contexts, I'd agree with you. I don't think its intended for serious contexts.

matt4x4

Many "sayings" are just rehashed from what poeple have heard at other meetings, and since they are regurgitating it, they like it. It may not relate at all to anything out of the Big Book, it might even contradict what is said in the Big Book, but they regurgitate it. I had the same feelings as you for a while. At first I didnt understand most of the sayings, then I became a lemming and reguritated it, because I wanted to fit in and talk the lingo of meetings. Once I understood what was said in the Big Book, I stopped telling the lies. It is most important to undestand what our text book says, to know the facts, so you can dismiss the lies people tell in the rooms of AA. It is so common, all the contradictory statements people make is ridiculous. For the uninformed, or misinformed its very hard to get the correct information out of most meetings. This is where the sponsor comes in. We have thick skulls, we need the correct information to be repeated over and over again so it can sink in. How can this happen in this day in age with so much misinformation to confuse us. Especially with the treatment centre patients spreading the treatment centres message instead of AA's. Its a mine field out there, I have been a bomb victim, now I am a bomb dismantlement technician. As my sponsor and his sponsor and our sponsorship family tree likes to repeat over and over again, WE HAVE TO BECOME THE EXPERTS.

heathersweeds

Hey cab! You know how much I love dr phil!! Lol
To me, this saying is more of the "listen to you gut, self doubt"
Believe and trust what you are seing in another regardless what they tell you.

Dee74

Why is this worrying you specifically Cabo? did someone apply to you?

D

silentrun

Hey Cabo...snappy comeback #62 If someone says that you to tell them to stop quacking.

caboblanco

I don't think anybody has ever said it about me. I just hear it recently a couple times to describe some kids who I knew personally that were good kids..I feel like every time I hear this quote and it's used a lot. Its just an excuse to stereotype and be ignorant