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addiction recovery is cultural

Old 02-08-2014, 08:35 AM
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addiction recovery is cultural

this is a man that I respect and believe is very insightful and intelligent. I know he is unorthodox and controversial..but in this video I think he is spot on..


Dr. Peele on Cultural Perspective - YouTube


what are your thoughts?
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Old 02-08-2014, 01:07 PM
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I enjoyed the whole sequence, the whole interview. Dr. Peele is one of the foremost medical professionals currently working and writing in the field of addiction, in my opinion.
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Old 02-08-2014, 02:30 PM
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Dr. Peele's research and opinions turn the traditional Hazelton style of treatment on it's heads. Some of what he says I tend to like & relate to. I like to think that if I do pick up a beer it will not necessarily turn into a spiral into hell. The "powerless" concept I also tend to disagree with. I have a lot of power of whether or not I pick up the first drop of booze.
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Old 02-08-2014, 02:36 PM
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I like to think that if I do pick up a beer it will not necessarily turn into a spiral into hell.
Whereas thinking like that would kill me.

Personally I prefer to retain a healthy degree of scepticism with opinion or advice that's not first hand experience.

D
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Old 02-08-2014, 03:12 PM
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Dr. Peele advocates Moderation Management:

"Moderation Management (MM) shows us that there is still room in the world for people to tackle problems on their (own). Human beings can decide for themselves what will make them happiest and will work best for them. MM doesn’t diagnose people or tell them what they must do. The group recognizes that, ultimately, people must do this for themselves."

--Dr. Stanton Peele (2010)



Whatever floats his boat. I'm very impressed he isn't speaking to me, for me, or about me.
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Old 02-08-2014, 03:26 PM
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I just thought his idea that our collective beliefs and ideas about addiction and recovery are 100% cultural and not something universal like science...and also that the countries with the most problems with addiction are the same ones promoting their belief system and programs around the world to help the other countries...it's very ironic..don't you think?
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Old 02-08-2014, 03:43 PM
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[QUOTE=Dee74;4458565]Whereas thinking like that would kill me. Personally I prefer to retain a healthy degree of scepticism with opinion or advice that's not first hand experience.

But for me being afraid of booze has never worked. I have been in and out of sobriety for many years. I think sometimes when I would relapse I felt like it had to be another low bottom. It became a self-fulfilling type prophesy. I would keep drinking until I reached another low bottom incident.
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Old 02-08-2014, 03:47 PM
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I'm not afraid of booze...it's an inert liquid
I just know - with 100% clarity - what will happen if I take up drinking it again...

I stopped arguing on the internet a long time ago.

I know Peele has his adherents, but his findings do not match my experience.

I bet he's as worried about that as I am
D
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Old 02-08-2014, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by caboblanco View Post
the countries with the most problems with addiction are the same ones promoting their belief system and programs around the world to help the other countries...it's very ironic..don't you think?
Hmm, I look at it differently I guess. I think I read somewhere (maybe Under The Influence) that different countries/nationalities were introduced to alcohol during different time periods. The newest ones introduced tended to have higher rates of alcoholism because natural selection hadn't sufficiently taken place (to weed out the alcoholics) yet due to is still being relatively "new". So I think it's only fitting that these countries are the ones who try to promote their belief system on this...because their problem is more prevalent and there is a higher need for it. The other countries, where alcohol has been around for much longer (and don't have as many alcohlics due to natural selection), don't have as much of a need for a mainstream program like we do.

Take it easy on me if you're going to tear what I said apart. This is just a vague recollection of something I read in UTI. I could have it all mixed up as this was over 5 years ago I read that book.
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Old 02-08-2014, 03:59 PM
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The speaker doesn't mention anything about moderation management as opposed to abstinence in this clip. I know he has a clinic that practices that along with an abstinence approach. I just thought his idea of peoples cultural blindness to be true..I have no thoughts on whether moderation or abstinence should be the path for any particular person
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Old 02-08-2014, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot View Post
Dr. Peele advocates Moderation Management:

"Moderation Management (MM) shows us that there is still room in the world for people to tackle problems on their (own). Human beings can decide for themselves what will make them happiest and will work best for them. MM doesn’t diagnose people or tell them what they must do. The group recognizes that, ultimately, people must do this for themselves."

--Dr. Stanton Peele (2010)



Whatever floats his boat. I'm very impressed he isn't speaking to me, for me, or about me.
Which of these points in that quote do you disagree with?
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Old 02-08-2014, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by freethinking View Post
Hmm, I look at it differently I guess. I think I read somewhere (maybe Under The Influence) that different countries/nationalities were introduced to alcohol during different time periods. The newest ones introduced tended to have higher rates of alcoholism because natural selection hadn't sufficiently taken place (to weed out the alcoholics) yet due to is still being relatively "new". So I think it's only fitting that these countries are the ones who try to promote their belief system on this...because their problem is more prevalent and there is a higher need for it. The other countries, where alcohol has been around for much longer (and don't have as many alcohlics due to natural selection), don't have as much of a need for a mainstream program like we do.

Take it easy on me if you're going to tear what I said apart. This is just a vague recollection of something I read in UTI. I could have it all mixed up as this was over 5 years ago I read that book.
The US promotes their recovery culture on countries like Italy where the drinking age is 16 and it's legal to let minors drink with adult supervision. They have a much lower binge drinking and alcoholism rate then us. The

culture is different. They don't see alcohol as a highly dangerous poison. That is cultural based. Its not genetics. There are plenty of Italian American alcoholics. They had to move to this country to get a higher abuse rate.
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Old 02-08-2014, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by caboblanco View Post
The US promotes their recovery culture on countries like Italy where the drinking age is 16 and it's legal to let minors drink with adult supervision. They have a much lower binge drinking and alcoholism rate then us. The

culture is different. They don't see alcohol as a highly dangerous poison. That is cultural based. Its not genetics. There are plenty of Italian American alcoholics. They had to move to this country to get a higher abuse rate.
Going along with what I was saying above - Italians were one of the first to be introduced to alcohol....about 7,000 years ago. They have had a much longer time to let natural selection take it's place and destroy those with a susceptability to alcoholism (which is why they have lower binge drinking and alcoholism rates, as you stated above). Comparatively, alcohol was introduced to the northern european countries some 1,500 years ago...a much less mount of time for natural selection to have properly killed off the ones afflicted with this disease. Then, look at Native Americans who suffer from very high rates of alcoholism....they were introduced to alcohol only 300 years ago. There is a correlation between length of time a culture has been exposed to alcohol and the rates of alcoholism due to heredity and natural selection.

Your last sentence...Are you implying that Italian American alcoholics became alcoholic because they moved here? Because of our culture? If so, I disagree. Clearly, alcoholism will never be truly gone entirely from any culture. I suspect if an Italian American is an alcoholic, it's because it was in his genes...not because he moved here.
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Old 02-08-2014, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by freethinking View Post

Your last sentence...Are you implying that Italian American alcoholics became alcoholic because they moved here? Because of our culture? If so, I disagree. Clearly, alcoholism will never be truly gone entirely from any culture. I suspect if an Italian American is an alcoholic, it's because it was in his genes...not because he moved here.
if you don't think how we look at drugs and alcohol and try to treat abuse of the substances isn't cultural but purely genetic that we do fundamentally disagree. The culture will dictate how one views the substance and how it should be used..that is everything..culture is very powerful.. There are many flaws in your argument but Ill agree to disagree
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Old 02-08-2014, 04:57 PM
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What are the flaws? I have time to kill.

I absolutely think how we treat addiction in this country is cultural. What I am saying is, Italy could have the same need for programs like AA - but on a smaller scale. They have lower rates of alcoholism because of what I stated above. You seem to be implying they have lower rates of alcoholism because of how they view alcohol as a culture.
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Old 02-08-2014, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by freethinking View Post
What are the flaws? I have time to kill.

I absolutely think how we treat addiction in this country is cultural. What I am saying is, Italy could have the same need for programs like AA - but on a smaller scale. They have lower rates of alcoholism because of what I stated above. You seem to be implying they have lower rates of alcoholism because of how they view alcohol as a culture.
without having to look up statistics like when alcohol was introduced in China..because China has a different culture towards alcohol and a very low abuse rate....i am just trying to figure out the logic here. You are saying that i

in a country like Italy most of the alcoholics of the distant past were so chronic that they never had children to pass on their theoretical alcoholic gene or genes? correct me if I'm off base here...
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Old 02-08-2014, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by caboblanco View Post
without having to look up statistics like when alcohol was introduced in China..because China has a different culture towards alcohol and a very low abuse rate....i am just trying to figure out the logic here. You are saying that i

in a country like Italy most of the alcoholics of the distant past were so chronic that they never had children to pass on their theoretical alcoholic gene or genes? correct me if I'm off base here...
I am not trying to be sarcastic, but am genuinely asking - are you familiar with the concept of natural selection? If so, the theory I believe in states that the longer an ethnic group (let's say Italians in Italy) is exposed to alcohol, the lower its susceptibility to alcoholism. In Natural Selection, those with a higher susceptibility are eliminated over many generations. Those with a low susceptibility to alcoholism survive and pass on their low susceptibility. Italy has had 7,000 years to let this take place. Other countries have had much shorter amounts of time. I do not believe it is a country's "treatment" of alcohol that influences the rate of alcoholism. I believe it is the amount of time that culture has been exposed to alcohol that effects it.


On an aside, since we are speaking of how different cultures treat alcohol...I was raised to believe alcohol is not some forbidden danger. I was allowed to sample wine at a very young age. At every meal, wine was served and I was allowed a small glass. I am still a full blown alcoholic, even though nobody treated alcohol like the devil in my house.
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Old 02-08-2014, 05:36 PM
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I know natural selection. It can be through breeding or cell mutation? Or how else would the genes be eliminated? is 7,000 years long enough for that? Jews also have a very low abuse rate. alcohol was around since the dawn of civilization in Sumeria. To trace the orgins of alcohol in different parts of the world and to say that Northern Europeans weren't genetically touched in the past by ancestors that drink alcohol...it seems far fetched...but if you could map that all out for me It would be interesting....lol just kidding you don't have to do that

Chinese as it seems have had alcohol before recorded history. They have a genetic component the lowers their tolerance to inebriation. Native Americans have a similar intolerance but somehow have a high alcohol abuse rate while the Chinese have a very low one. that's one flaw anyway

There is the culture in your home and there is the culture in the society around you. You might of had friends who drank in high school or college...the messages you got in addition to the influences at home.
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Old 02-08-2014, 05:48 PM
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I'm not sure about any cell mutation business with regards to natural selection. The people with the alcoholic genes in a culture would eventually die off (not entirely, obviously) if given sufficient time. From what I have read, the Italians and Jews have had the longest amount of exposure to alcohol, hence their low alcoholism rates.

Your Chinese/Native AMerican comparison only supports my theory...Chinese have had access to alcohol since before recorded time (as per what you wrote), wheras NA's have only been exposed for 300 years. That supports my theory on why the chinese are low on the scale and the NA are high: time exposed.

I believe I am an alcoholic because it is in my genes. I come from a long line of hardcore drunks. Most either died to young for health reasons, or committed suicide. We just don't survive.
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Old 02-08-2014, 05:53 PM
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the Chinese still have the the genes that create a low tolerance. Somehow that was never weeded out by natural selection....and the Native American came from Asia were alcohol was available...food for thought right...seriously I don't think that book is completely accurate with the history of alcohol use. They just use whatever is convenient to their theory
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