DancingAcct

I am an alcoholic, I know this without a doubt.

I quit drinking on 8/8/12, and didn't start going to meetings until this December. AA's rules for sobriety did not match my own.

The first six months or so I did cocaine and Molly about three times each.

I basically used them randomly at parties.

I smoked pot for a couple weeks after what I considered my sobriety date, but quickly lost interest in it.

I have ADHD and an Adderal script that I take sometimes and forget or decide not to other times.

My sponsor is having me change my sobriety date to the last time I smoked pot.

My thing is this. I feel like I am an alcoholic, not an addict.

If I opened a beer, it would be accompanied by months, years, or a life time of drinking. I could never be like, I'm going to have two beers at a party randomly without starting a spree.

I understand the AA concept of total abstinence, but I didn't have those rules before.

Does anyone understand,or have advice?

PurpleKnight

I wouldn't get to worried about dates and times etc, the most important thing is TODAY, the thing is a person could have years of Sobriety but if they drank today well then it dosen't really matter when the date was, as like you mentioned for an alcoholic it'd probably be a week long binge and back to square one.

Personally I can never remember my date, I'd have to check old posts, I know it was a Saturday morning in November when I made the decision to be Sober.

But if I don't get through TODAY, then it's not really that important, keep doing what your doing, it seems to be working for you, that's the important thing!!

Joe Nerv

It's your life, your choices. If you're serious about wanting to stop and stay stopped, 20 years down the line a couple of month difference on your sober date isn't going to mean anything at all.

I can understand the desire to give up alcohol but not want to close the door on other substances. Especially if it is clear that alcohol was the number 1 offeder. Problem is, from what I've experienced and know, 99.9% of the time if people continue with other drugs, the other drugs are going to either become a problem, or lead one right back to drinking. Not to mention make someone feel uncomfortable in AA, or other recovery program. To become sober, happy, useful and content, involves becoming honest with ourselves and others. Tough one to pull if yer dabbling in othe mind altering substances. It also takes learning how to live in a clean and sober world. Ya can't do that, and do drugs at the same time.

Most people in AA claim their sober date as the day of, or right after their last drink or high. I think you'll feel much better about yourself if that's the choice you make, but I'm not you. If you plan to continue to use pot and other substances, I wish you the best, but know that's not really heading down the path of sobriety. Some people refer to it as switching seats on the Titatanic.

Technically speaking you've been alcohol free. Sober, would be debateable. Clean, definitely not.

tomsteve

to thine own self be true.

Aellyce

First of, I'm not in AA so this will be more a personal opinion.
I also think the best choice in the long run regarding this will be the most honest decision by yourself, for yourself. Including how much importance you designate to the exact date or dates. But I do understand the dilemma since you've decided to join AA and try out their program, rules, etc. My suggestion is do what makes you most comfortable and most truthful to your own values, given that it is not driven by denial.

There is something else you might want to contemplate a bit, though. That sometimes it can be helpful to drop some of the individualism and follow trusted others' advice, especially at times of confusion and hesitation. I have tended to have trust issues, and issues with an overconfidence in my independence when younger. It worked for a long time (or so I thought), mostly until I had no choice but realize the extent of my addiction and how dysfunctional I'd become in a serious depressive episode. Still did not want to accept / follow others' rules, help, or even humble suggestion... but had no choice in the end if I wanted to get better.

Now I say without doubt, in retrospect, that these were some of the best incidents that happened to me, when I accepted help and advice from others whose judgment was obviously far more intact than mine (a person deep in addiction and depression).

There are many different approaches that we can try. Something like choosing your sober date: you could do your own way and see how it feels in the longer run... or follow your sponsor's advice and see if that proves helpful for you. In many ways it's a highly subjective and theoretical exercise anyway as far as the value of the date setting goes. If one does not work, change and try the other. I think ultimately the most important thing is that what we do seems right for us, is helping, and leads to progress in a practical sense.

Good luck with your decisions!

Amajorityofone

Question-

When was the last time you stopped putting any toxic chemicals into your body? Or, put more simply, when was the first time you went a whole day on just food and water?

This is your sobriety date, in my opinion. Everything else is commentary. Remember, life is simple. We're the ones that make it complicated.

Good luck and God Bless

Threshold

Couple thoughts and my own experience.

AA is about alcohol. That is it's primary purpose so technically....it tecnicalities are what it's about...then I guess you are sober from alcohol.

Most of the people I know in the program would say it is not sober if you are using any mind altering drugs, and I have heard of many sponsors who would not take on a sponsee that had made the decision to continue to use other substances recreationally.

Many people tried that and found it didn't work. That is why they pass that on, because they don't want to see another person spinning their wheels, relapsing and going through what they went through. They are not being sticklers so much as really wanting to pass on useful advice to others.

Substitution is very common among alcoholics/addicts. We quit one thing and ramp up on another...thus never really addressing our addiction and never really getting free. Sometimes we get into a program and quit one substance only to make some other substance or dangerous behavior our new Higher Power.

In the beginning of my recovery I thought that I could quit one substance (the one I thought was my real problem) and keep using others recreationally. I kept relapsing.

One reason was the simple fact that using any of those things reduced my inhibitions, making it more likely for me to use all of those things again.

It was also easier for me to BS myself, if I was using mind altering substances, I could say "hey, look, I'm handling my life now" even though I wasn't...and was less able to work my recovery program honestly. I didnt' need it as much, because I was still relying on, running to and masking my life issues with other substances.

I jumped on and off that merry go round for a couple years. And, like merry go rounds do, I only went in circles.

I learned that for me to be free of addiction, I needed to get off all substances, to be honest and willing to address the other ways that addiction manifested in my life, and when they came up, hand those over as well.

Getting free from the substances first, has helped me address my entire life. I doubt I would have or could have done that if I was still using anything.

As far as what you do in regard to AA. Do you have a home group? What does the group conscious have to say about that issue? You can go by that. Or you can go by your own intuition, and keep receiving chips, or attend meetings and work the program and not receive chips. Keeping the issue between yourself and your sponsor.

jdooner

Curious how you would separate the definition of alcoholic vs addict? I would like to hear how you separate the two.

lovesymphony

I know people who traded alcohol for marijuana. I'm not sure if they were alcoholics, though. One thing I've noticed is a lot of recovered alcoholics still smoke cigarettes a lot. Cigarettes may not be mind altering but they do give a "lift"...I'm no expert-I don't smoke weed or cigarettes but personally I think it would be quite possible to quit drinking and just smoke pot, and fine to do unless you have an unhealthy addiction to pot

freethinking

Just curious...what prompted you to start going to AA meetings after over a year without alcohol?

Right now, I am addicted to cigarettes and caffeine. But the 2 don't land me up in legal trouble or kicked out of my house, so I will worry about kicking those habits when I have more sober time. Have drugs ever landed you in trouble?

I guess all I can say is that I believe a lot of people in AA might agree with your sponsor. If you are sticking with your original sobriety date despite that, just be prepared for that and try not to take it the wrong way.

jdooner

I wholeheartedly and emphatically disagree if you are an alcoholic. An alcoholic drinks to escape. It is for this reason the escapism that we cannot substitute mind altering substances. There are only two addictions, mental and physical. The physical ends with detox. Cocaine is not physically but certainly mentally. It is the mental addiction that I believe defines an alcoholic and an addict and I see them as one in the same. Again these are my views but are also shared by many experts in the medical and psychiatry community.

Removing the substance does not remove the obsession. This is something AA teaches as a spiritual malady. Step work is applied and there is method of practice to remove the thought process shared among us addicts/alcoholics. Therefore, without the psychic change you are still an addict/alcoholic just without the substance.

Why do you think smokers gain weight when the quit smoking? Because the remove the cigarette and transfer to eating to quench the oral fixation and habit that has been formed. When I became sober I started to crave sugar to substitute the booze I was no longer ingesting. This resulted in weight loss at first then as my caloric intake increased in the second month weight gain - I transferred the addiction.

Addiction is like a Merry-go-round like Threshold points out. Unless you learn to deal with the reasons you are an Addict/Alcoholic than you are trading one substance for another, albeit of relative harm. Trading booze for coke and molly is a bad trade - I have experience in all of the above. Cocaine is the second most addictive drug in the world, in my opinion - second to crystal meth. While it does not have the physical withdrawal of heroin, there are no drugs like methadone and suboxone to reduce addiction. It has been shown to increase dopamine levels by 300 times in cocaine and 1000 times for meth. This makes it impossible for an addict to refuse unless a physic change is involved in my opinion.

Good luck.

foolsgold66

It isn't really about dates. Ever.

Mountainmanbob

that is what most all good sponsors would recommend

fini

An alcoholic drinks to escape.

JD,
ach, i think it's so much more complex than that.for example, i hear often that alcoholics drink to numb....yet drinking often made me FEEL, and it's what i wanted at times.
and then there is the seeming filling of some lack i experienced, a different thirst.
in that way, drinking was a totally screwed up attempt to take care of myself.

there are other "reasons", of course, but to say an alcoholic drinks to escape seems much too simplistic to me to be of much use.

i wish it had been that simple

as far as dates and other substances, i'm not in AA, but using other mindaltering substances is not being sober, imo.

jdooner

Fini - I was simplifying for dramatic effect. It would perhaps be more appropriate that the addict (alcoholic in included) drinks and uses to cope. Sometimes that coping is to celebrate and sometimes to commiserate but we are choosing to use a substance to augment what we are unable or unwilling to achieve naturally. It is through this process that things get altered and balance no longer exists.

ErikT

An alcoholic IS an addict....where did you hear otherwise?

ErikT

If you truly believe what you are saying,...then I assume at AA meetings, you do not hide the fact that you smoked weed? Because if you really think its ok, then why would you hide it? Just curious

RobbyRobot

Using any substance for any reason personal or addictive is always about getting something from the substance use that the user otherwise doesn't get without such use. There are huge differences between subjective wants and objective realities when we play with alcohol and drugs for whatever justifications of the day.

You say you 'know' your an alcoholic? Interesting how you somehow also believe that being an alcoholic isn't also being within a class of drug addiction too. How do you define alcoholism?

I'm a recovered alcoholic drug addict. For me alcoholism is in a class all of its own. I've done enough other drugs to know my addiction to alcoholism is of course a drug addiction in its own right. How alcoholism works on me is unique to my other experiences with drugs to be sure, and so my recovery from alcoholism is tailored to my specific alcoholism. Being recovered brings absolute responsibilities into play for me, and it goes without saying for me anyways that I can't do things like grass and not get high - and from that high begins the obvious want for more - and since I've already proven that alcohol was my drug of choice, it doesn't take much insight for me to realise that since I am in fact a drug addict I would eventually chase that best high back to my DOC and of course straight into Hell.

Isn't it amazing just how undefined alcoholism can remain undefined in our society? It's so politically correct and all that noise to just leave it undefined I suppose relative to the realities of our own personal experiences.

Whatever floats our boat comes to mind. It's also important that not all boats floating today will be floating tomorrow, but that's a different discussion of course.

Gal220

I also don't agree that you're sober if you're getting high. But as others said, to thine own self be true. If you really feel you were sober, go with it.

My sponsor doesn't make me do anything. If I consistently don't follow her advice, she may decide it's not worth her time to keep giving it to me. So if you are using, even "recreationally", you may have a hard time finding and keeping a sponsor. But a sponsor shouldn't be mandating anything to you.

My sponsor and I have disagreed over things before, and she has been cool about it. I also have secondary compulsions, and this has often been confusing for me. Six years ago, my last drink coincided with the last time I self-injured. So I always hinged these two together in my mind. But I self-injured for a while in December, and seriously considered resetting my sobriety date. While not a mood altering drug per se, I wanted it to be! I intentionally did it in the hopes that I would feel something different. And when it didn't work, it set off a mental obsession for me to seek my other solution: alcohol. I've talked with my sponsor about it numerous times, and she doesn't believe I should reset my date. However, if I ultimately decide to, that's my decision.

DancingAcct

I guess to me, the issue is that I realized I wasn't getting anything out of doing other stuff and stopped shortly after.

I picture an addict or substitution as starting a spree of use, regular use, etc.

Basically, although I've quit all of it, I felt I could never drink like other people I had no trouble stopping other drugs or interest in habitually using them.

It's like I wouldn't have done them at all if I had been using AA's rules to begin with, but my only focus was not drinking.