The term "alcoholic"
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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The term "alcoholic"
Lately I have been reading “alcoholic books”, for want of a better term.
So far I have read:
Terry: My Daughter’s Life-and-Death Struggle with Alcoholism by George McGovern
The Intimate Relationship Between Women And Alcohol by Ann Dowsett Johnston
A Drinking Life by Pete Hamill
Drinking: A Love Story by Caroline Knapp (my absolute favourite!)
Diary Of An Alcoholic Housewife by Brenda Wilhelmson
Dry by Augusten Burroughs (I had to put it down when he describes his apartment with all the empties because he was telling my story)
Overcoming Alcohol Misuse: A 28 Day Guide by Conor Farren (more of a medical book but I got scared when he describes the effects of alcohol on the body)
The Good House by Ann Leary (really enjoyed this)
Now I am reading Kick The Drink…Easily by Jason Vale. On page nine he writes:
“There is no such thing as an alcoholic
For many people reading the first page of this book, the statement “there is no such thing as an alcoholic” may seem incredible or certainly difficult to accept, particularly if you have been labelled an alcoholic. However controversial, I intend to prove that there is no such thing as an alcoholic, as society understands it, and that there is no such disease as alcoholism.
I would like to take you on a journey to discover the truth behind the most used and generally accepted drug in the world. It is time for us all to take our heads out of the sand and finally face up to the truth about alcohol. Alcohol addiction has never been seen for what it really is as the subject of a drink problem and the possibility of a person being addicted to alcohol are rarely addressed or all too often swept under the carpet. We have been conditioned to believe that you are either a “normal” drinker or that you have lost control and are an “alcoholic”. As a result, people who have finally woken up to the fact that they are not in control have to keep quiet about it for fear of being made an outcast. If they are brave enough to voice a desire to stop drinking, they are called alcoholics which suggests they have an incurable disease and would have to “give up” drinking forever. This is an unwelcome and frightening thought for anybody who drinks.”
He goes on:
“Alcohol has always been seen as very different from any other form of drug taking; so much so that drinking alcohol is rarely described as drug taking at all. But, for a significant majority, drug taking it is and drug addiction it is. What is more, it is the only drug in the world where, when you stop taking it, you are seen as having a problem”.
“The fact is, regardless of what you may have been told, you are not an alcoholic because there is no such thing”. (P. 32).
Has anyone else read this? I haven't read the whole book yet but I am confused. So his opinion is that there is no such thing as an alcoholic because we are drug addicts?
Please feel free to read and comment as I would love some help with this x
So far I have read:
Terry: My Daughter’s Life-and-Death Struggle with Alcoholism by George McGovern
The Intimate Relationship Between Women And Alcohol by Ann Dowsett Johnston
A Drinking Life by Pete Hamill
Drinking: A Love Story by Caroline Knapp (my absolute favourite!)
Diary Of An Alcoholic Housewife by Brenda Wilhelmson
Dry by Augusten Burroughs (I had to put it down when he describes his apartment with all the empties because he was telling my story)
Overcoming Alcohol Misuse: A 28 Day Guide by Conor Farren (more of a medical book but I got scared when he describes the effects of alcohol on the body)
The Good House by Ann Leary (really enjoyed this)
Now I am reading Kick The Drink…Easily by Jason Vale. On page nine he writes:
“There is no such thing as an alcoholic
For many people reading the first page of this book, the statement “there is no such thing as an alcoholic” may seem incredible or certainly difficult to accept, particularly if you have been labelled an alcoholic. However controversial, I intend to prove that there is no such thing as an alcoholic, as society understands it, and that there is no such disease as alcoholism.
I would like to take you on a journey to discover the truth behind the most used and generally accepted drug in the world. It is time for us all to take our heads out of the sand and finally face up to the truth about alcohol. Alcohol addiction has never been seen for what it really is as the subject of a drink problem and the possibility of a person being addicted to alcohol are rarely addressed or all too often swept under the carpet. We have been conditioned to believe that you are either a “normal” drinker or that you have lost control and are an “alcoholic”. As a result, people who have finally woken up to the fact that they are not in control have to keep quiet about it for fear of being made an outcast. If they are brave enough to voice a desire to stop drinking, they are called alcoholics which suggests they have an incurable disease and would have to “give up” drinking forever. This is an unwelcome and frightening thought for anybody who drinks.”
He goes on:
“Alcohol has always been seen as very different from any other form of drug taking; so much so that drinking alcohol is rarely described as drug taking at all. But, for a significant majority, drug taking it is and drug addiction it is. What is more, it is the only drug in the world where, when you stop taking it, you are seen as having a problem”.
“The fact is, regardless of what you may have been told, you are not an alcoholic because there is no such thing”. (P. 32).
Has anyone else read this? I haven't read the whole book yet but I am confused. So his opinion is that there is no such thing as an alcoholic because we are drug addicts?
Please feel free to read and comment as I would love some help with this x
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Addiction is addiction, in my opinion. Alcohol is a drug even though most people don't consider it to be. I don't worry too much about semantics. I only know that I was drinking way too much and wasn't able to stop on my own. I got professional help and now I don't drink anymore.
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: UK
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This is just another route to the same solution, just like Rational Recovery and Allen Carr's approach. Basically he is just saying that alcohol is a drug and that it is not you (the 'alcoholic') who is the problem but alcohol itself, and that when you stop drinking you no longer have a problem with alcohol...
Addiction seems to be a hotly debated issue but from what I have read they all seem to have the same solution, to stop taking the drug. Whatever helps you get there is fine x
Addiction seems to be a hotly debated issue but from what I have read they all seem to have the same solution, to stop taking the drug. Whatever helps you get there is fine x
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I think he is sorta making a philosophical point in relation to where the term alcoholic comes from in society, if we admit that we have a problem society labels us as an alcoholic (we probably do ourselves), but I think he's addressing how society imprisons people with the label.
People can go out at the weekend get blackout drunk, strangers around them seeing them stagger and make fools of themselves are probably unlikely to say "there's an alcoholic" . . . but they are clearly not in control of their drinking, they drank until they were intoxicated . . . whereas someone may have came to the conclusion in their life that they can't control their drinking, and tells others they're not going to drink again, that comes with the label of alcoholic.
The principle of control of drinking is the issue and on a Fri/Sat night there is no such thing as the stereotype label of alcoholic, anyone who has lost control of their drinking (no matter how respectable they look) and is drunk is included in the same category.
I think he's extending the term away from alcoholics and non alcoholics, moderation and excess, and expanding it to address the real issue in society of not being in control when drinking, and on a Fri/Sat night people falling out of clubs are clearly not in control, but may not necessarily be labelled as alcoholics, they're just young people having a good time, that's what people do etc etc
I've no idea whether I agree or disagree, I just tried to interpret it, but that's my 2 cents
People can go out at the weekend get blackout drunk, strangers around them seeing them stagger and make fools of themselves are probably unlikely to say "there's an alcoholic" . . . but they are clearly not in control of their drinking, they drank until they were intoxicated . . . whereas someone may have came to the conclusion in their life that they can't control their drinking, and tells others they're not going to drink again, that comes with the label of alcoholic.
The principle of control of drinking is the issue and on a Fri/Sat night there is no such thing as the stereotype label of alcoholic, anyone who has lost control of their drinking (no matter how respectable they look) and is drunk is included in the same category.
I think he's extending the term away from alcoholics and non alcoholics, moderation and excess, and expanding it to address the real issue in society of not being in control when drinking, and on a Fri/Sat night people falling out of clubs are clearly not in control, but may not necessarily be labelled as alcoholics, they're just young people having a good time, that's what people do etc etc
I've no idea whether I agree or disagree, I just tried to interpret it, but that's my 2 cents
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Join Date: Nov 2012
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Jeez, your bookcase sounds like a really informative place to find literature on alcohol and alcoholics! Question: do you also read books that are fun? Like Eat, Pray, Love or something? I guess I just want to make sure you're remembering to keep happy. Books can be very uplifting too, on many subjects!
Last summer I joined a "career counseling" club full of other jobless people, and the only other socializing I did was with AA or alcoholism groups. I was surrounding myself with people in very depressing situations all the time and I felt quite negative for a while. Everyone I met was either jobless, an alcoholic...or both! Yeesh.
Just wanted to say that it's good to mix in some fun stuff too!
Last summer I joined a "career counseling" club full of other jobless people, and the only other socializing I did was with AA or alcoholism groups. I was surrounding myself with people in very depressing situations all the time and I felt quite negative for a while. Everyone I met was either jobless, an alcoholic...or both! Yeesh.
Just wanted to say that it's good to mix in some fun stuff too!
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 1,344
He has a good point.
If I go from taking herion every week-end to stop taking it all together most people would see that as I was making an improvement - becomming more healthy.
If I go from drinking every week-end to stop drinking all together I go from being healthy to having a problem, being an alcoholic.
That is not logical.
If I go from taking herion every week-end to stop taking it all together most people would see that as I was making an improvement - becomming more healthy.
If I go from drinking every week-end to stop drinking all together I go from being healthy to having a problem, being an alcoholic.
That is not logical.
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Poconos PA
Posts: 1,544
I suppose there isn't much need to label it anyway. I knew I had a problem with alcohol and it eventually began to affect my health. When I made the decision to quit, call me an alcoholic or not I just needed to stop.
Nowadays, when people ask me if I want a beer I just tell them I quit and I don't think of myself as an alcoholic. Just someone who made a choice to not do something because it was bad for my health.
Nowadays, when people ask me if I want a beer I just tell them I quit and I don't think of myself as an alcoholic. Just someone who made a choice to not do something because it was bad for my health.
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Originally Posted by Sudz No More 
I suppose there isn't much need to label it anyway. I knew I had a problem with alcohol and it eventually began to affect my health. When I made the decision to quit, call me an alcoholic or not I just needed to stop.
Nowadays, when people ask me if I want a beer I just tell them I quit and I don't think of myself as an alcoholic. Just someone who made a choice to not do something because it was bad for my health.
Nowadays, when people ask me if I want a beer I just tell them I quit and I don't think of myself as an alcoholic. Just someone who made a choice to not do something because it was bad for my health.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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Haven't read Jason Vale's book, but from a quick google, he seems to have a penchant for juicing and all the benefits juicing brings. Juicing. Lovely. Oh, and he's a life-coach....and a juicing expert...was that mentioned already?....with a book to sell. Juicing...versus a worldwide recovery movement....juicing versus the life-enhancing experience that is spiritual development...hmmm...what to make of it all...
Am entirely sure I never will read it, and pretty sure, even without doing so, he's not describing me or any other alcoholic of my type. The healthful benefits of juicing not withstanding; no denying those.
To each his own, and this could well be contempt prior to investigation, but on this occasion, I'll take that risk
Am entirely sure I never will read it, and pretty sure, even without doing so, he's not describing me or any other alcoholic of my type. The healthful benefits of juicing not withstanding; no denying those.
To each his own, and this could well be contempt prior to investigation, but on this occasion, I'll take that risk
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
Originally Posted by Pipefish
Haven't read Jason Vale's book, but from a quick google, he seems to have a penchant for juicing and all the benefits juicing brings. Juicing. Lovely. Oh, and he's a life-coach....and a juicing expert...was that mentioned already?....with a book to sell. Juicing...versus a worldwide recovery movement....juicing versus the life-enhancing experience that is spiritual development...hmmm...what to make of it all...
Am entirely sure I never will read it, and pretty sure, even without doing so, he's not describing me or any other alcoholic of my type. The healthful benefits of juicing not withstanding; no denying those.
To each his own, and this could well be contempt prior to investigation, but on this occasion, I'll take that risk
Am entirely sure I never will read it, and pretty sure, even without doing so, he's not describing me or any other alcoholic of my type. The healthful benefits of juicing not withstanding; no denying those.
To each his own, and this could well be contempt prior to investigation, but on this occasion, I'll take that risk
Btw there is no such thing as an alcoholic from a medical perspective. Pics personally believe an alcoholic is simply and addict addicted to alcohol.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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SUCH a good point! It is necessary to diversify and balance out hobbies/interests to round things out.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Originally Posted by bigsombrero
Jeez, your bookcase sounds like a really informative place to find literature on alcohol and alcoholics! Question: do you also read books that are fun? Like Eat, Pray, Love or something? I guess I just want to make sure you're remembering to keep happy. Books can be very uplifting too, on many subjects!
Last summer I joined a "career counseling" club full of other jobless people, and the only other socializing I did was with AA or alcoholism groups. I was surrounding myself with people in very depressing situations all the time and I felt quite negative for a while. Everyone I met was either jobless, an alcoholic...or both! Yeesh.
Just wanted to say that it's good to mix in some fun stuff too!
Last summer I joined a "career counseling" club full of other jobless people, and the only other socializing I did was with AA or alcoholism groups. I was surrounding myself with people in very depressing situations all the time and I felt quite negative for a while. Everyone I met was either jobless, an alcoholic...or both! Yeesh.
Just wanted to say that it's good to mix in some fun stuff too!
Better when never is never
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Jason Vale's book is essentially an attempt at self-hypnosis - just like Allen Carr's. I have often wondered whether those two ever tried to sue each other because their books are so similar. I believe he is trying to remove the problems people have with the highly stigmatized label of 'alcoholic' rather than make a scientific point. That way people will just focus on the fact that they have an addiction.
In the end, the strategy is basically: don't pick up again and you won't have problem.
In the end, the strategy is basically: don't pick up again and you won't have problem.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 222
Maybe...maybe not.
Im a compulsive person in many other respects. Is my compulsion towards alcohol simply one more manifestation of that? Is my compulsion towards other forms of enjoyment a compensation for my drinking? Am I just a person with compulsive behavior in general, and its not just the alcohol?
I guess none of us know, and semantics like that can take people to their graves for sure.
Im a compulsive person in many other respects. Is my compulsion towards alcohol simply one more manifestation of that? Is my compulsion towards other forms of enjoyment a compensation for my drinking? Am I just a person with compulsive behavior in general, and its not just the alcohol?
I guess none of us know, and semantics like that can take people to their graves for sure.
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Originally Posted by bigsombrero
Jeez, your bookcase sounds like a really informative place to find literature on alcohol and alcoholics! Question: do you also read books that are fun? Like Eat, Pray, Love or something? I guess I just want to make sure you're remembering to keep happy. Books can be very uplifting too, on many subjects!
Last summer I joined a "career counseling" club full of other jobless people, and the only other socializing I did was with AA or alcoholism groups. I was surrounding myself with people in very depressing situations all the time and I felt quite negative for a while. Everyone I met was either jobless, an alcoholic...or both! Yeesh.
Just wanted to say that it's good to mix in some fun stuff too!
Last summer I joined a "career counseling" club full of other jobless people, and the only other socializing I did was with AA or alcoholism groups. I was surrounding myself with people in very depressing situations all the time and I felt quite negative for a while. Everyone I met was either jobless, an alcoholic...or both! Yeesh.
Just wanted to say that it's good to mix in some fun stuff too!
Yeah I read Eat Pray Love a few years ago, and was really looking forward to the movie but it was a let down
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Hi Tetra. My opinion is it makes no difference what it is called, it is a problem. I do think it is very credible that all addictions are similar, are they the same, not exactly, but I think more so than not.
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I believe the term "alcoholic" is a term that has multiple means. Many of which are not good. The majority of society still does not believe that alcoholism is a disease. The stigma of "drunken driving" is great. Society loathes drunk drivers. Although labeled as a disease by the American Medical Association the majority of doctors will say off the record that alcoholism is not a disease. The term "alcoholic" can bring much shame and guilt and those who are expected to help us do not.
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