ImperfectlyMe

I had to fold on this one urban cowboy!

fini

well, FG, i'm no lady nor have ever wanted to be, but as a woman maybe i'll do ?
was it the question about added value?
to me, none, really. which shouldn't surprise you, as i previously stated that what i needed to know, no: KNOW, was from my own experience and not from the science.
it's nice when science has/finds an explanation for what i've come to KNOW about me, but it adds nothing to the process of getting to my understanding, nor do i see it as being helpful to me now.

however, i did wonder if maybe it "settles" something for some people? JDooner, is that part of the appeal for you? does it help settle some kind of doubt in your mind?
hm...THAT is where i needed my own experience. even if i'd read the science, and science had told me that i couldn't moderate, i'd most certainly have spent a very long time attempting to prove that wrong. logic and rational thinking, in fact, told me i SHOULD be able to moderate, yet i could not. when i accepted that, it all turned around.
that acceptance had to come from knowing it to be true from experience.

hm...why did you ask for input from 'ladies'? you suppose there might be a sex-based/gender-based difference in response?

ClearMind

Very interesting post, jdooner. It's interesting to view some of the science behind moderation. Of course, I suspected moderation was impossible for me due to the hundreds of failed attempts at doing so haha.

jaynie04

At this point, with a bit of sobriety under my belt I am interested in learning more about the science. I grew up in the halls of AA, it was part of our household dialect, so I intrinsically question the fact that I have a question…the denial, cotton in your ears thought process is a factor that runs deep for me.

I see it, the newcomers who think they can outsmart the affliction, but I don't see it here. I don't believe it takes anything away from my sobriety to have a rounded picture.

I don't see the danger in not being willing to compartmentalize my addiction. I see it as ownership and not being intimidated by something I am no longer in denial about. I also feel that by keeping my head down and not being willing to question why some of us end up here I am perpetuating the social stigma that there is something dark and wrong about being an alcoholic. I do believe it is a disease that involves the convergence of different factors and I am interested in the combination. Are we furthering the stigma by coddling it and treating it differently than any other syndrome? Are we in any way perpetuating the undercurrent that we did something wrong to end up with this issue?

Within the confines of SR I feel safe, because I feel understood and it helps to hear others who understand that at the end I didn't want to keep drinking yet I didn't want to get sober. The fact that many of us are getting off of the elevator earlier and are curious might mean that future generations have an even sooner and clearer picture of addiction. I am third generation alcoholic. My mother, sober 37 years, her mother died active. I have a 9 year old daughter….I would wager that she could have some odds of being predisposed. What can I do for her? First of all I have alleviated growing up in a traumatic environment. Secondly, I can pass on the knowledge that I gained about alcoholism when my mother got sober, I never really tried switching drinks, or moderating, I knew the nature of progression, I understood what was happening to me. That probably helped me reel it in sooner, being exposed to AA when I was younger did help me even though I don't go now. And thirdly, I can stay invested and involved in the science, it won't hurt, and it will likely help. I would not feel as clear expressing this if I was white knuckling it, and I can't subscribe to the fact that being interested in why my brain works differently than most people is at all putting my sobriety in a precarious position.

I offer this with the understanding that forums such as this are relatively new. It is rare that groups of people can come together outside of the scientific community and discuss origins and treatment outside of the umbrella of a singular recovery method. And I am enthused about the fact that this subject can be discuss by members that I respect in a open and easy manner. I think this represents a shift in the recovery field. I feel that there is a genial acceptance of talking about the spiritual aspects of recovery, and perhaps it is me, but when science comes up I feel it creates heightened sensitivity.

foolsgold66

Great thread.

Y'all don't see what I'm driving at. OK. I suppose it would take some work.

1) Science. Yeah, I buy it. Yakety-yak, do something about it or go home. I want a science fix.
2) Women. Generally they stay out of these sciency discussions but I value their perspective. That's all.

jaynie04

I don't see what you are driving at, apart from releasing the estrogen hounds. There are always multiples threads regarding emotional, psychological and spiritual aspects of alcoholism. And yes a lot of it is redundant, but I think most of us have traveled fairly similar paths so I believe that everyone needs to process where they are at…so I guess my question is, why on threads that are discussing the semantics of individual words related to specific recovery programs are posts treated respectfully and with interest? And why the "yakety yak" when it comes to science? Is it perhaps because it is viewed as a less personal component than an individual choice of treatment method? And why the resistance to kicking the tires about science, yet a marked enthusiasm when it comes to discussion what powerlessness or surrender means? Do you see the discrepancy? While I don't see any disrespect here I do sense a sort of "you are beating a dead horse" regard from some posters. I don't think we are, in fact I would argue that science is the horse that has yet to be saddled up.

Olive1

Me thinks he's trying to pick a fight?

caboblanco

they haven't even made the saddle yet

soberhawk

I did not engage in the discussion in this thread whether this thread was worth reading, that was a little to much meta discussion for my taste.

I find it fascinating to read about how humans function whether it is at a brain-, psychological or spiritual level.

The core of any solution is to understand the problem and knowledge can lead to understanding.

jaynie04

Are we a new breed of cowboys in a different type of rodeo? Let's face it, less than 100 years ago I would have ended up in a straightjacket being hosed down with cold water. Most types of treatment that involve a physical affliction are fluid with the understanding that there is always room to learn more. Shouldn't we treat recovery from addiction with the same concept?

caboblanco

funded interest groups and politics play a negative role here imo. I don't really know how to remedy that but i think open-minded honest discussion is a step in the right direction

RobbyRobot

I get you. You want the fix today be it science, AA, SR, RR, therapy, whatever works. You're drinking but you already know that blows. You want better and you want it like NOW.

The thing is the only fix today that makes any sense is quitting but since you just traded that in for a drink its difficult for me anyways, to look the other way and just tell you keep trying, you'll figure it out, just get back on that horse, ride 'em cowboy! For me, you don't present has a hand-holder play nice or else because i'm an all sensitive kinda guy please don't hurt me. If I'm wrong, then I am, but I still have to be who I am using the eyes that I got from the life I am living.

Something didn't work big time if the promises with sobriety didn't pan out. Whatever that something(s) is itself still not a good enough reason to drink, so we're left with understanding that no reason is good enough but since you did in fact drink this means something is important enough for you to throw in the towel and the bell hasn't rung on a count out for you as yet. Your still standing and asking - what y'all got that's better then what I already had?

I get that.

foolsgold66

Jaynie, I appreciate your response. I'll just answer your question as straight up as I can. I don't think disagreement, anger, or conflict is unproductive as long as we don't check out when it happens.

soberhawk

Who is drinking RobbyRobot?

And foolsgold why get angry over a thread about science on moderation - what is the to be angry about?

caboblanco

I don't think we should disclose who was drinking if that person would prefer his privacy

RobbyRobot

Yeah, if privacy was already in play, I agree. This time though its already news in a different thread before this thread. Am I wrong?

foolsgold66

I cut this out specifically to focus on it, Rob. I appreciate the whole message, did read it, do understand it, and am always grateful for your messages.

You're right. Some things didn't pan out. They are actually physical things but there is connectivity to happiness, good mental health, etc.

I'm stuck on that at the moment, perhaps that is why I am focusing on this thread.

I am capable of realizing what I've gained, but I was hoping for more and am having a really hard time coming to terms with the fact that I'm not getting what I wanted.

caboblanco

Idk I didn't see that thread Rob..but if it was then I guess it's not private

foolsgold66

No privacy needed, I'm drinking. JD is a friend, and so are the rest of you, every one.

soberhawk

I was not to bring that up in the open foolsgold, I did not understand what robot was talking about – I am not sure I can now anyhow.

Why did you start drinking again?