War Stories
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,006
Originally Posted by KissMyTiara 
Dee, I find nothing wrong with them. It's what you hear every single day in every single AA meeting. It's how AA people recover. Talking about the past. And how to get out of it and move forward. You can't deny your past.
There's a way to talk about this stuff without making it sound fun, harmless, without serious concequences, and at a distance from the individual.
I think Seascape hit the nail on the head, the message behind this dangerous form of reminiscing, ""look at the stupid crap I did! Oh but it was the alcohol!"
If the person is drinking the alcohol, there's something more serious at work than the CRAZY EFFECTS of alcohol in the moment.
And a certain type of sharing really misses that point.
I find most sharing in AA to be on point on the serious predicament of problem drinking.
p***enger
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,025
One difference between a war story thread on SR and a share or even speaker in an AA meeting is that on SR the title and the tone of the majority of posts on a thread hang around, and even if an old-timer or two pops in to remind readers of a lesson to be learned, it might be easy for someone to get baited or get a trivializing message. I've sometimes thought that it would be good to be able to rearrange a thread, and start it from a more meaningful place than it started on its own. Maybe someone should write a warning label for war story threads?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 557
This has been a good discussion! I agree with everybody! 
If only, right?
Truly, though. Everyone has valid points. I myself have never related to these kinds of posts, mostly because drinking for me was never social or fun. I don't have any crazy stories. Not a lot tended to happen to me when I was locked in a room drinking myself to oblivion every night. I mean, what would I say, "Oh that Agatha Christie sure gets funny when I read it drunk! And, wow, I fell asleep with the book open!"
So I have mostly avoided them because I can't relate to them. But I do sometimes read them (I have to admit I'm a little obsessive compulsive, and can't stand to have some threads "bold", so I usually do at least read the OP for everything!) I have noticed (like many of you) that they seem to be draws for newcomers (and many times started by newcomers). Perhaps people want validation or catharsis or someone to relate to. Perhaps if they are new they just don't know what to talk about or how to talk about sobriety since they don't have much experience with sobriety. Perhaps they have read all of the threads and responses a million times and are glued to their internet hoping to get through the next minutes or hours without drinking, so they post something to distract themselves. Perhaps the thought of posting, "I'm really struggling and want to drink" is something they can't manage right now, so they'll write something to remind themselves why they want sobriety.
I do find it a little ironic though when people talk about "the days in the past when they were drinking" in one post when clearly from others they only have a few minutes, hours, days, or weeks of sobriety.
So I don't know
If only, right?Truly, though. Everyone has valid points. I myself have never related to these kinds of posts, mostly because drinking for me was never social or fun. I don't have any crazy stories. Not a lot tended to happen to me when I was locked in a room drinking myself to oblivion every night. I mean, what would I say, "Oh that Agatha Christie sure gets funny when I read it drunk! And, wow, I fell asleep with the book open!"
So I have mostly avoided them because I can't relate to them. But I do sometimes read them (I have to admit I'm a little obsessive compulsive, and can't stand to have some threads "bold", so I usually do at least read the OP for everything!) I have noticed (like many of you) that they seem to be draws for newcomers (and many times started by newcomers). Perhaps people want validation or catharsis or someone to relate to. Perhaps if they are new they just don't know what to talk about or how to talk about sobriety since they don't have much experience with sobriety. Perhaps they have read all of the threads and responses a million times and are glued to their internet hoping to get through the next minutes or hours without drinking, so they post something to distract themselves. Perhaps the thought of posting, "I'm really struggling and want to drink" is something they can't manage right now, so they'll write something to remind themselves why they want sobriety.
I do find it a little ironic though when people talk about "the days in the past when they were drinking" in one post when clearly from others they only have a few minutes, hours, days, or weeks of sobriety.
So I don't know
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
Truly, though. Everyone has valid points. I myself have never related to these kinds of posts, mostly because drinking for me was never social or fun. I don't have any crazy stories. Not a lot tended to happen to me when I was locked in a room drinking myself to oblivion every night. I mean, what would I say, "Oh that Agatha Christie sure gets funny when I read it drunk! And, wow, I fell asleep with the book open!"
I could tell you about how often I missed the end of some really fascinating documentary because I passed out. It was awful
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Originally Posted by Weaver
Obviously there are going to be people who like these kinds of threads and those that don't. If you like them, click read and post away. If you don't like them, don't click, don't read and don't post away. Problem solved?
As for triggers, I don't believe that there's anything I can read here or anywhere else that can provoke cravings for me. I'm an alcoholic. But then, this is not my first week, month or year in sobriety. My triggers are portable; I carry them with me. Believing that someone or something outside of myself can cause me to drink is an act of bad faith; lying to myself. If I'm not taking care of myself, then I'm more vulnerable to cravings than otherwise, and if I am taking care of myself, then there's very little that would prompt me to drink, outside of temporary insanity.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Out in the Sticks
Posts: 1,788
If a person thinks they can blame every bad decision on the alcohol alone ,Then a visit to the local prison would be in order .
Kill someone while drunk ,and you are still going to jail .
There are no exemptions for being intoxicated .
Kill someone while drunk ,and you are still going to jail .
There are no exemptions for being intoxicated .
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 332
Originally Posted by caboblanco
"...I like to change bad memories form sharp shards of glass..too beautifully smoothed sea glass that doesn't effect me negatively in the present..and i believe it is possible to do
June
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
i haven't read any thread whose title sounds like a war-story. or an invitation to compare lousy stuff to see who was "best" at it. why would i or anyone care what x did with his empties? how y told someone off or crashed his car into z?
i GET the importance of reminders, and see a huge difference between a thread solely dedicated to what looks to me like swaggering about just how BAAAAD you could be, and an example of something i'm remembering as part of my story in a more general thread. or part of your story.
it's the stand-alone of the war-stories that seems problematic to me; the lack of integration into a bigger picture.
but as far as triggering someone else ...there are triggers everywhere if i'm gonna be "triggered", and i better learn ways to not have them throw me for spiralling loops. and there's enough to read and engage with on SR that a person could read 24/7 without ever touching one of those threads if they don't want to.
if they DO want to read or write them...not for me to say what purpose that may or may not serve for them....hm...has anyone here gone and ASKED an OP or responders what they get out of those threads?
i GET the importance of reminders, and see a huge difference between a thread solely dedicated to what looks to me like swaggering about just how BAAAAD you could be, and an example of something i'm remembering as part of my story in a more general thread. or part of your story.
it's the stand-alone of the war-stories that seems problematic to me; the lack of integration into a bigger picture.
but as far as triggering someone else ...there are triggers everywhere if i'm gonna be "triggered", and i better learn ways to not have them throw me for spiralling loops. and there's enough to read and engage with on SR that a person could read 24/7 without ever touching one of those threads if they don't want to.
if they DO want to read or write them...not for me to say what purpose that may or may not serve for them....hm...has anyone here gone and ASKED an OP or responders what they get out of those threads?
Administrator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,373
has anyone here gone and ASKED an OP or responders what they get out of those threads?
I've asked individual folks before privately too, yeah.
I get the 'we're all adults' here thing. No argument there.
Even if I thought a rule was required (I don't) There's no rule I or anyone else could write that delineates whats a war story and what's not anyway.
I just thought it a conversation we needed to have.
my concern is/was for newcomers.
I know the me who joined in 2007 is a lot different to the me I am now
D
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: North US
Posts: 174
Dee, it's like "fishing stories". Where someone will say how big of a fish they caught or almost had. It is comforting to hear that someone else smashed up a car drunk or rotated liquor stores. But I also see how it may be a bit harmful to newcomers.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 110
Originally Posted by fini
.has anyone here gone and ASKED an OP or responders what they get out of those threads?
1. Comforts me knowing there are so many others out there with my EXACT experiences
2. Shows me that there are a lot of people who were way further down the rabbit hole when they quit ant that makes me thank god that I didn't get to those points with my drinking but also is a reality check that if I did continue to drink I would no doubt make it to those depths.
All in all, I personally find the stories helpful in staying sober. But I realize different people with different mindsets may reminiscence about the days and may make them want to pick up again. That's one persons opinion and this is the last time I am responding to this thread or any other war story related thread because while it doesn't bother me I don't want to encourage it because of the fact that it might be damaging to some people here. I do believe firmly in freedom of speech so it doesn't offend me if others post to those threads but I am using my freedom to not respond
Sick doctor
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: UK, via Ireland
Posts: 52
When I read war stories, I feel a need to rinse my soul out by hopping over to the ACOA thread, to blend the terror and hilarity of what I was becoming (my own war stories and those of my family) with the misery of its effects, and a compassion for all involved. It's a salutary antidote.
So many war stories are pieced together from the dubious recall of slightly less drunken company, some running repairs on our dignity, and the need to fabricate some coherence and keep ourselves together. So the unease on this thread is good and healthy, and I agree that it's also worth keeping the horrors in our crosshairs...
So many war stories are pieced together from the dubious recall of slightly less drunken company, some running repairs on our dignity, and the need to fabricate some coherence and keep ourselves together. So the unease on this thread is good and healthy, and I agree that it's also worth keeping the horrors in our crosshairs...
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Out in the Sticks
Posts: 1,788
I don't find mush pleasure in those times , but I guess that's just me .
I noticed not much about the anxiety attacks ,depression ,hangovers ,puking ,or the hundred other joys of being an active drunk .
Im struggling to try to remember the good times ,oh wait there were not any
I noticed not much about the anxiety attacks ,depression ,hangovers ,puking ,or the hundred other joys of being an active drunk .
Im struggling to try to remember the good times ,oh wait there were not any
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
A share which brings out our empathy and even better brings out how we too can triumph against our past misfortunes is a welcome share, and this is of course never a war story even though it talks about past abuse of alcohol and drugs. We're all adults here, and so we all know how free speech works, and that is just the way of it, and this thread is a great example of our tolerance for ourselves as a collective community.
Its way awesome how this thread has remained meaningful and important from start to ongoing page after page of personal perspectives. I'm glad we're having this discussion openly and honestly.
Its way awesome how this thread has remained meaningful and important from start to ongoing page after page of personal perspectives. I'm glad we're having this discussion openly and honestly.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 551
I appreciate the "war story" threads. I was always so private and shameful about my drinking problem. I found great comfort in realizing that others behaved in ways like I did and were courageous enough to share their habits/experiences.
Those threads have also helped me stop romanticizing drinking; there's no glory in some of the things that we put ourselves through while under the influence. I won't ever go back.
Those threads have also helped me stop romanticizing drinking; there's no glory in some of the things that we put ourselves through while under the influence. I won't ever go back.
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bardo
Posts: 246
I have 5 days. It seems like a judgment call – we’re all different and we all take them differently: helpful for some, not for others. As others have pointed out, it can be a matter of tone, sensitivity and intent - which can be harder to discern on the internet. Moderator’s dilemma…. 
Frankly, I’m lucky enough not to have much in the way of “good” war stories. In the past, hearing others’ has often made me think along the lines of “Hell, I’m not that bad!” - and so I didn’t see that drinking really posed a problem for me. That is crazy thinking, but when you’re in that “syndrome”, how much rationality do you exercise when it comes to drinking? Anyway, I guess that’s just one way that I can feed it into my own personal soap opera.
And that’s the thing: I can turn not-drinking (and AA, SR, whatever) into another version of my own narcissistic soap opera. But—
Now that I can see that, it’s my responsibility to not play in the soap opera (mine or anyone else’s) and to not enable someone else’s destructive soap opera. And I also need to have some understanding and compassion for those who need to vent - or even to rant – to get stuff out where they can see it. I have needed to also. That’s different from the sort of braggadocio, “My big-swingin’ drunk’s bigger than yours” tale swapping. But even when that’s what it is, people have to work through their own melodrama as best they can. And I know that I’m not free of my own soap opera, so that’s going to come out, too.
Bottom line, I don’t find hearing the details of how far and how badly someone else fell to help me at all. Maybe, under other circumstances it would. It seems to help for some, at least some of the time, as does the telling of those old stories. If it’s a problem for me, at least here I can click and leave.
Frankly, I’m lucky enough not to have much in the way of “good” war stories. In the past, hearing others’ has often made me think along the lines of “Hell, I’m not that bad!” - and so I didn’t see that drinking really posed a problem for me. That is crazy thinking, but when you’re in that “syndrome”, how much rationality do you exercise when it comes to drinking? Anyway, I guess that’s just one way that I can feed it into my own personal soap opera.
And that’s the thing: I can turn not-drinking (and AA, SR, whatever) into another version of my own narcissistic soap opera. But—
Now that I can see that, it’s my responsibility to not play in the soap opera (mine or anyone else’s) and to not enable someone else’s destructive soap opera. And I also need to have some understanding and compassion for those who need to vent - or even to rant – to get stuff out where they can see it. I have needed to also. That’s different from the sort of braggadocio, “My big-swingin’ drunk’s bigger than yours” tale swapping. But even when that’s what it is, people have to work through their own melodrama as best they can. And I know that I’m not free of my own soap opera, so that’s going to come out, too.
Bottom line, I don’t find hearing the details of how far and how badly someone else fell to help me at all. Maybe, under other circumstances it would. It seems to help for some, at least some of the time, as does the telling of those old stories. If it’s a problem for me, at least here I can click and leave.
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Melbourne, Victoria Australia
Posts: 1,202
Thanks Dee for this extraordinarily significant thread.
Only speaking from my own experience, of a few years on SR and some AA - and as someone still stuck in a relapse. Having said that, I can see how this issue has been clearly preying on your mind as a moderator. And rightly so.
However, I guess, if you've been to AA meetings - which I realise you haven't - you'd know that there is absolutely no telling what someone is going to say or HOW they're going to say it when they're called to share. Personally, I find it as unpredictable - re war stories as well as other stuff - as the internet.
But, at least with the internet and such a big and diverse forum like SR, which is changing minute by minute in different time zones: as others have said in this thread: it's actually up to the reader to choose / decide if they'll read the thread, if they'll respond, and so on.
In the end, it's actually little different from when people go away from an AA or other meeting (let alone hanging out with people in rehabs). No one can influence, in real time and especially in that person's mind, how they will truly feel and what they will do in response.
I personally abhor the glorifying war stories, in real life or on SR, and have never taken part in them and never will. I've done some stupid things in my past life when drunk, but frankly more along the lines of what Carlotta (I think) noted as prone to falling asleep in the midst of a good doco.
Having said that, I'm by no means minimising the harshness of my alcoholic addiction - indeed, it is with me, in me and very active still.
But I wonder - thinking as I write - if what you've been noticing on SR re this type of thread might (might) be a part of the more generally related trend for people to throw all manner of stuff online. I'm thinkin' Facebook nonsense here, of course, but not limited to that.
I figure many people now use the interwebs - in our case, the SR community - to write out what we once did in our private journals. On one hand, SR is so well moderated - as I've often said before - that they feel a bit 'safe'. They may not have told any of this stuff to others in their real life. Or, they're still mulling over it, even if they go to meetings or whatever, but it's preying on their minds. For good, or for ill. On the other hand: it's the interwebs. So you can only control what comes in, really, according to the already fabulously stringent rules of engagement for SR.
It's an almost impossible job for you as a mod, esp of Newcomers. How to decide, as one guy, what's 'for good, or for ill'? In terms of what people read, and then how they respond?
You can't. It's a microcosm case of the Serenity Prayer (about the only great thing I take from AA). You as mod can only enforce the existing rules. Also, as a mod, you are much more able than any of us to PM someone who's going overboard with romancing / glorifying war stories whether real time or the past.
Only speaking from my own experience, of a few years on SR and some AA - and as someone still stuck in a relapse. Having said that, I can see how this issue has been clearly preying on your mind as a moderator. And rightly so.
However, I guess, if you've been to AA meetings - which I realise you haven't - you'd know that there is absolutely no telling what someone is going to say or HOW they're going to say it when they're called to share. Personally, I find it as unpredictable - re war stories as well as other stuff - as the internet.
But, at least with the internet and such a big and diverse forum like SR, which is changing minute by minute in different time zones: as others have said in this thread: it's actually up to the reader to choose / decide if they'll read the thread, if they'll respond, and so on.
In the end, it's actually little different from when people go away from an AA or other meeting (let alone hanging out with people in rehabs). No one can influence, in real time and especially in that person's mind, how they will truly feel and what they will do in response.
I personally abhor the glorifying war stories, in real life or on SR, and have never taken part in them and never will. I've done some stupid things in my past life when drunk, but frankly more along the lines of what Carlotta (I think) noted as prone to falling asleep in the midst of a good doco.
Having said that, I'm by no means minimising the harshness of my alcoholic addiction - indeed, it is with me, in me and very active still.
But I wonder - thinking as I write - if what you've been noticing on SR re this type of thread might (might) be a part of the more generally related trend for people to throw all manner of stuff online. I'm thinkin' Facebook nonsense here, of course, but not limited to that.
I figure many people now use the interwebs - in our case, the SR community - to write out what we once did in our private journals. On one hand, SR is so well moderated - as I've often said before - that they feel a bit 'safe'. They may not have told any of this stuff to others in their real life. Or, they're still mulling over it, even if they go to meetings or whatever, but it's preying on their minds. For good, or for ill. On the other hand: it's the interwebs. So you can only control what comes in, really, according to the already fabulously stringent rules of engagement for SR.
It's an almost impossible job for you as a mod, esp of Newcomers. How to decide, as one guy, what's 'for good, or for ill'? In terms of what people read, and then how they respond?
You can't. It's a microcosm case of the Serenity Prayer (about the only great thing I take from AA). You as mod can only enforce the existing rules. Also, as a mod, you are much more able than any of us to PM someone who's going overboard with romancing / glorifying war stories whether real time or the past.
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