Kindling effect
well, it's certainly helped keep me on the straight and narrow! 
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,443
Wow...just stumbled upon this and read the article....wow....I never even knew that this existed! I got sober in 1991 and did not relapse until 1999...(8 years)...sober again for 3...relapsed ....then sober for 4 and have been drinking for the past 3 years. Got sober in October 2013 and it was the FIRST time I experienced detox. It was HORRIBLE! About 5 days of nausea, anxiety, depression, sweating, etc. Did not realize how dangerous this is! Hoping to never have to do THAT again....
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Europe - Latvia - Riga
Posts: 18
Here is my experience with "Kindling effect". Im 24 now and started to drink in my high school. From age 16 till 18 basically drinked in weekends. From an age of 18 i started to drink every day, about 2 - 4 beers a day + about 10 - 20 in weekends. After drinking i had mild withdrawal symptoms. From age 21 i started to drink in nights , about 6 - 12 beers every night , when runned out of booze i drinked everything what i got in my hands. If not drinked i had shakes, anxiety, depression, heart race, sweats. Had my first detox at age 22 it lasted 5 days, after detox i stayed sober for 4 months and drinked again. Started with beer and quickly graduated to Jägermeister and again ended up in hospital and hardcore withdrawal. Stayed sober for one more year and relapsed again. This time went out with an old friend for a couple of beers and, went to a bender for 10 days, drinked almost liter of vodka a day. This one again ended up with hospital. They kept me there for one night, and sended home. At the second night, i started to have shakes, electrical pain, visual and audio hallucinations, heart pain, blood pressure 180 / 120. I thinked this is my list day on earth, somehow survived until morning, called my dad and he got me to the detox. Now im sober 4 months and i am very scared. Im very young and i don,t know how to stay sober in this age, it is very hard, but i also know, next time i will have a seizure. Yes, definitely Kindling effect is true. But not for everyone. I have a neighbour, he is about 68 years old, and he drinks 40 years. Last 10 of them he drinks every month for about 10 days until he runs out of money and then quit cold turkey. How is this possible ? Im serious he is doing this for 10 years, when he drinks, he drinks about 0,5 - 0,7 of Vodka a DAY. Sometimes i hear him screaming in nights when he sees bugs on walls and so, but when i ask if he needs help he always answers im ok. F*** booze.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 117
Originally Posted by caboblanco 
what is your experience with this phenomena? How many times have you tried to get sober and how was each withdrawal?
If you experience kindling once is there evidence that suggests you will have kindling for years..or even for life?
did you have a short relapse after a period of sobriety..say a 6-10 drinks just one night and experience significant withdrawal?
I didn't experience significant physical withdrawal after I quit drinking..two weeks later I relapsed on only a 6 pack of beer( i would usually drink 24 or so a night) and experienced real withdrawal symptoms. it's strange and I was wondering if anybody had a similar experience.
If you experience kindling once is there evidence that suggests you will have kindling for years..or even for life?
did you have a short relapse after a period of sobriety..say a 6-10 drinks just one night and experience significant withdrawal?
I didn't experience significant physical withdrawal after I quit drinking..two weeks later I relapsed on only a 6 pack of beer( i would usually drink 24 or so a night) and experienced real withdrawal symptoms. it's strange and I was wondering if anybody had a similar experience.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 442
Originally Posted by alphaomega
Oh God yes. I was sober for 65 days, for the umpteenth time, had a bottle and half of wine on a full stomach over the course of 4 hours.
Spent the next 4 days borderline suicidal, anxious beyond words and quite sure on the edge of a seizure.
Thanks for reminding me of kindling. I almost forgot about it in today's hysteria.
Spent the next 4 days borderline suicidal, anxious beyond words and quite sure on the edge of a seizure.
Thanks for reminding me of kindling. I almost forgot about it in today's hysteria.
Are we sure were not getting hangovers confused with withdrawal?
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,378
I would say I have hangovers that last 2-3 days,
I belong to the school that believes hangovers are actually a manifestation of withdrawal, but the more pedantic of you may find the following interesting:
Overlap exists between hangover and
the symptoms of mild alcohol with-
drawal (AW), leading to the assertion
that hangover is a manifestation of
mild withdrawal. Hangovers, how-
ever, may occur after a single bout of
drinking, whereas withdrawal occurs
usually after multiple, repeated bouts.
Other differences between hangover
and AW include a shorter period of
impairment (i.e., hours for hangover
versus several days for withdrawal)
and a lack of hallucinations and seizures
in hangover.
http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publicatio...22-1/54-60.pdf
the symptoms of mild alcohol with-
drawal (AW), leading to the assertion
that hangover is a manifestation of
mild withdrawal. Hangovers, how-
ever, may occur after a single bout of
drinking, whereas withdrawal occurs
usually after multiple, repeated bouts.
Other differences between hangover
and AW include a shorter period of
impairment (i.e., hours for hangover
versus several days for withdrawal)
and a lack of hallucinations and seizures
in hangover.
http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publicatio...22-1/54-60.pdf
Split hairs if you like, and I'll admit I'm not a scientist, but to me that sounds like the yorkshire terrier and the doberman are still dogs..it's just a matter of scale...
I certainly progressed to the point where my hangovers and withdrawal were interchangeable.
As far as kindling goes as many here know, I detoxed a lot over 15 years - no trouble - but my last detox was a life threatening doozy of a ride
D
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 442
Interesting.
My hangovers have always been epic, lasting far longer than hours, usually more than a day, but hey, maybe they are withdrawal.
For me I know my hangovers consist of lack of sleep, blood poisoning, probably lack of oxygen to the brain from snoring, dehydration, messed up metabolism.
I get the same if I drink for a day or every day for a week, except I just drink over it if continuing to drink.
It doesnt feel like withdrawal to me, but, Ive no idea really, I just know it sucks...
My hangovers have always been epic, lasting far longer than hours, usually more than a day, but hey, maybe they are withdrawal.
For me I know my hangovers consist of lack of sleep, blood poisoning, probably lack of oxygen to the brain from snoring, dehydration, messed up metabolism.
I get the same if I drink for a day or every day for a week, except I just drink over it if continuing to drink.
It doesnt feel like withdrawal to me, but, Ive no idea really, I just know it sucks...
voices ca**y
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,357
Originally Posted by MrTumble
I do this all the time, go for anything between 30 - 120 days sober then relapse for a week to a month, but I dont have any withdrawal symptoms *ever*, I would say I have hangovers that last 2-3 days, and I feel miserable because I've let myself down by drinking and generally poisoned myself, but nothing I would consider withdrawal.
Are we sure were not getting hangovers confused with withdrawal?
Are we sure were not getting hangovers confused with withdrawal?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 341
Scary stuff. The morning I woke up deathly ill after only about 6 drinks, I seriously thought I had the flu. It didn't seem possible that I could be that sick on so little (I've done much more in a day and not been that sick). I was so weak after throwing up so much I couldn't walk. I probably would have gone to the ER but had no car that day.
As for hangover or withdrawal, I went to the ER one time years ago with a bad 'hangover' and they actually called it withdrawal (knowing I drank excessively the night before). Withdrawal was my diagnosis.
I believe hangovers are a form of withdrawal, the alcohol is leaving your body and your body wants more.
And they are much worse after not drinking for a while!!
As for hangover or withdrawal, I went to the ER one time years ago with a bad 'hangover' and they actually called it withdrawal (knowing I drank excessively the night before). Withdrawal was my diagnosis.
I believe hangovers are a form of withdrawal, the alcohol is leaving your body and your body wants more.
And they are much worse after not drinking for a while!!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,949
My kindling withdrawal symptoms from my first relapse were itching all over, not being able to sit still,tossing and turning and not sleeping at all the first night..strange altered states the next couple of nights during waking periods when sleeping..night terrors or night terror like phenomenons..at times i did become rather irritable..it last about 3 days or so..and was my first experience with withdrawal
when i was drinking heavily...sometimes i would have a problem stomaching the first few drinks of the day...i felt horrible like silentrun said. my stomach was blowing up. i was hot and sweaty. just felt like poop. I would remedy this by slamming as much beer as I could quickly...if my buzz got strong enough and I didn't puke..i was good. i would feel better..
I don't know if these two examples are complete separate phenomenons but one is immediate and one usually starts hours after the last drink.
I didn't get either of them in my early days of drinking
when i was drinking heavily...sometimes i would have a problem stomaching the first few drinks of the day...i felt horrible like silentrun said. my stomach was blowing up. i was hot and sweaty. just felt like poop. I would remedy this by slamming as much beer as I could quickly...if my buzz got strong enough and I didn't puke..i was good. i would feel better..
I don't know if these two examples are complete separate phenomenons but one is immediate and one usually starts hours after the last drink.
I didn't get either of them in my early days of drinking
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Out in the Sticks
Posts: 1,788
One thing I noticed is my tolerance is much less than it was .
6-8 shots and im staggering drunk ,To think I once drank 5 shots as a bet ,and was not drunk ,Its quite odd how much my tolerance has gone away .
I used to have shakes and anxiety after every binge drinking round .
6-8 shots and im staggering drunk ,To think I once drank 5 shots as a bet ,and was not drunk ,Its quite odd how much my tolerance has gone away .
I used to have shakes and anxiety after every binge drinking round .
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,822
I know a simple solution to this whole thing, now it's simple but to be honest it's not easy at first...seriously no one needs to go through anything like that ever again. Simple, not easy.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 186
To me, a hangover is the start of my withdrawal. When I drink, my body stops producing dopamine, because the alcohol binds with the dopamine receptors, then the next day when the alcohol is gone my brain and body freak out because there's nothing to bind with those receptors anymore.
Even after a period of sobriety, if I have just one drink, my body remembers that when I take in alcohol it doesn't have to produce dopamine anymore, so it shuts down production.
That's how kindling works on me, and why, physiologically, for me at least, just one drink gives me the same withdrawal as the my worst bender. A hangover was just the start of my withdrawal.
Even after a period of sobriety, if I have just one drink, my body remembers that when I take in alcohol it doesn't have to produce dopamine anymore, so it shuts down production.
That's how kindling works on me, and why, physiologically, for me at least, just one drink gives me the same withdrawal as the my worst bender. A hangover was just the start of my withdrawal.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 340
I did a couple of those charity things where you go without booze for a whole month to raise money.
I was drinking heavily at the time and flirting with the idea of giving up.
Of course at the end of the month I went out on a celebratory weekend binge and I swear that the two days afterwards I could have just crawled up in a ball and happily died.
Don't know if it was kindling but I remember thinking that my hangovers don't normally hurt this bad.
Interesting point about binge drinkers feeling the effects more than steady drinkers due to the constant pattern of mini - withdrawals. I fell into this category and my hangovers were definitely getting worse.
I was drinking heavily at the time and flirting with the idea of giving up.
Of course at the end of the month I went out on a celebratory weekend binge and I swear that the two days afterwards I could have just crawled up in a ball and happily died.
Don't know if it was kindling but I remember thinking that my hangovers don't normally hurt this bad.
Interesting point about binge drinkers feeling the effects more than steady drinkers due to the constant pattern of mini - withdrawals. I fell into this category and my hangovers were definitely getting worse.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: perth Western Australia
Posts: 132
After 7 months sobriety, I drank 10 times in 5 weeks over xmas / new year period. I had withdrawal (not as bad as normal - but was still ill. )... its also 1 month later and I still struggling to sleep.
How many people do you know that have drunk alcohol 10 times in 5 weeks - normal people don't withdraw and sleep fine. It will always be this way for me, if I relapse. the damage is done.
How many people do you know that have drunk alcohol 10 times in 5 weeks - normal people don't withdraw and sleep fine. It will always be this way for me, if I relapse. the damage is done.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Engerland
Posts: 897
Yep. Heard it said that while we are 'not drinking', alcoholism is in the corner doing press ups. Comes back stronger and fitter next time and i am weaker and more vulnerable. Certainly been my experience. Guess this is kindling. Have known of people 25 years sober who have decided to drink again.Dead in 6 weeks (in one case developed korsikoffs). I really don't believe that i would survive the ordeal again.
Sorry 'bout the spelling....
Sorry 'bout the spelling....
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