Difference in philosophies
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,949
Difference in philosophies
Do you think emphasizing your faults, flaws and wrong doings is more important then emphasizing your strengths, talents and positive traits in early recovery and why?
How does your chosen recovery method use your negative or positive traits in their approach?
Do you think character, talents or achievements or personality traits shouldn't be brought up at all in recovery?
How does your chosen recovery method use your negative or positive traits in their approach?
Do you think character, talents or achievements or personality traits shouldn't be brought up at all in recovery?
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 608
Personally I don't like to dwell on the negative, but instead I like to focus on the positives. My chosen recovery method is rational recovery (as opposed to AA). Achievements, in my opinion, are a very important aspect of recovery because it gives someone confidence which is essential in the long road to recovery.
AlmA
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Marbella Spain
Posts: 714
Hi Caboblanco...
I believe:
emphasizing your strengths, talents and positive traits
If you focus on negative and punishing yourself you will not last...
There is good and bad in every single person but in different grades...
You have to concentrate on the good stuff and the good things there are in you.
and focus on and try to develop it!!!
I believe:
emphasizing your strengths, talents and positive traits
If you focus on negative and punishing yourself you will not last...
There is good and bad in every single person but in different grades...
You have to concentrate on the good stuff and the good things there are in you.
and focus on and try to develop it!!!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
This is an interesting topic. Since you specify early recovery I will answer it this way - I don''t think this way for longer term.
For me, I have deep insecurities that stem back to childhood. I have found ways to cope since I was a kid by showing off and building self confidence that I can outdo my peers. This has been embolden as I have grown older and had more success than I could have dreamed of as a kid. For me this led to an ego that became its own problem. To me I had become God. The overwhelming odds I had overcome were mathematically mind boggling. And as a result there was nothing I could not have or accomplish - cars, houses, women, drugs, booze, and fame.
So in early recovery I believe that deflating and realizing that my ego was part of the problem was key. As I am now over 4 months in, I don't think the same way anymore. I don't like or partake in the war stories or drunkalogs. The past cannot be changed - I feel I am peeling back the onion and now need to start dealing with my core problems the insecure child that is at the heart of my addictions. I sue my therapy, not AA for this part too.
I will let you know as I progress but my guess is a focus on strengths and positivity is the key for development in this phase.
For me, I have deep insecurities that stem back to childhood. I have found ways to cope since I was a kid by showing off and building self confidence that I can outdo my peers. This has been embolden as I have grown older and had more success than I could have dreamed of as a kid. For me this led to an ego that became its own problem. To me I had become God. The overwhelming odds I had overcome were mathematically mind boggling. And as a result there was nothing I could not have or accomplish - cars, houses, women, drugs, booze, and fame.
So in early recovery I believe that deflating and realizing that my ego was part of the problem was key. As I am now over 4 months in, I don't think the same way anymore. I don't like or partake in the war stories or drunkalogs. The past cannot be changed - I feel I am peeling back the onion and now need to start dealing with my core problems the insecure child that is at the heart of my addictions. I sue my therapy, not AA for this part too.
I will let you know as I progress but my guess is a focus on strengths and positivity is the key for development in this phase.
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
I'm not aware of a recovery method that emphasizes or dwells on faults flaws and wrong doings.
For example, AVRT talks about the 'beast', but this is a means to assist a person to cope with the side of their nature that’s prompting them to drink.
AA talks about making amends for wrongs done to others and about character defects, but this is a means to becoming a better person and making the world a little better place to live.
As I see it, neither recovery method emphasizes the negative. Both methods provide ways of dealing with unpleasant things that addicts and alcoholics are typically faced with. Both lend tools, albeit quite different tools.
It's all good.
For example, AVRT talks about the 'beast', but this is a means to assist a person to cope with the side of their nature that’s prompting them to drink.
AA talks about making amends for wrongs done to others and about character defects, but this is a means to becoming a better person and making the world a little better place to live.
As I see it, neither recovery method emphasizes the negative. Both methods provide ways of dealing with unpleasant things that addicts and alcoholics are typically faced with. Both lend tools, albeit quite different tools.
It's all good.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
Originally Posted by awuh1 
I'm not aware of a recovery method that emphasizes or dwells on faults flaws and wrong doings.
For example, AVRT talks about the 'beast', but this is a means to assist a person to cope with the side of their nature that’s prompting them to drink.
AA talks about making amends for wrongs done to others and about character defects, but this is a means to becoming a better person and making the world a little better place to live.
As I see it, neither recovery method emphasizes the negative. Both methods provide ways of dealing with unpleasant things that addicts and alcoholics are typically faced with. Both lend tools, albeit quite different tools.
It's all good.
For example, AVRT talks about the 'beast', but this is a means to assist a person to cope with the side of their nature that’s prompting them to drink.
AA talks about making amends for wrongs done to others and about character defects, but this is a means to becoming a better person and making the world a little better place to live.
As I see it, neither recovery method emphasizes the negative. Both methods provide ways of dealing with unpleasant things that addicts and alcoholics are typically faced with. Both lend tools, albeit quite different tools.
It's all good.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Gatineau, QC, CA
Posts: 5,100
I recognize and admit my flaws, but I work at correcting or improving them.
I also recognize that god gave me the power to either destroy myself, or to live a happy life. Like a father he could only watch with love until I choose.
No one could get back up but me, and now god is here to support me.
I also recognize that god gave me the power to either destroy myself, or to live a happy life. Like a father he could only watch with love until I choose.
No one could get back up but me, and now god is here to support me.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Essex
Posts: 411
In early recovery, as with any other time in recovery to be honest, the approach we take needs to be as honest, loving and gentle as it can be.
Exploring and owning character defects is an essential part of my recovery because it isn't my talents, abilities or assets which get me drunk or into trouble, it's character defects that drive my addiction that do this. And they do that, drunk or sober. The saying I hear often is that I'm not a bad person trying to get good, I'm a sick person trying to get well.
When I look honestly at my life, in active alcoholism and in recovery, there are lots of examples of twists and kinks (also known as character defects ;-) in my thinking and behaviour that caused me and others trouble and hurt. The intention though is not to clobber ourselves or kick ourselves when down, but to use this information as impetus for change. I don't see this as negative, I see it as very positive, and liberating.
That honest reflection, even if it is uncomfortable sometimes, helps identify patterns that are better changed. The way I am coming to see it, is that this is about self-awareness, and with that self-knowledge, an attempt to do things differently. If I see this process as clobbering myself for being 'bad', or admonishing myself for 'faults', what I have learned from long time sober members of AA whose sobriety I respect, is that this isn't what the programme is intended to do. (note! all of this is coming from an AA perspective :-) That approach would show a lack of awareness that alcoholism is an illness, and would also mean that this process is being led by a lack of humility and a quest for never attainable perfection. It's meant to cast light on those places that seemed too dark to go to before, and voice this to another person, to God. What could be more freeing than that?
I love this stuff, it's a revelation to me. I can't live my life fully without it. One of the sustaining things is that it's all based on spiritual practices and principles which are thousands of years old. For me, that alone indicates the value of it, and the power it has to change lives. By continuing to clear the things that get in the way on a day to day basis, I can use the gifts God has given me much more fruitfully for others and myself. So, the process isn't distinguishable anymore into negatives or positives, it's just about honest reflection, accountability and strives toward change little by little, if that makes sense?
Great topic, thanks for posting
Exploring and owning character defects is an essential part of my recovery because it isn't my talents, abilities or assets which get me drunk or into trouble, it's character defects that drive my addiction that do this. And they do that, drunk or sober. The saying I hear often is that I'm not a bad person trying to get good, I'm a sick person trying to get well.
When I look honestly at my life, in active alcoholism and in recovery, there are lots of examples of twists and kinks (also known as character defects ;-) in my thinking and behaviour that caused me and others trouble and hurt. The intention though is not to clobber ourselves or kick ourselves when down, but to use this information as impetus for change. I don't see this as negative, I see it as very positive, and liberating.
That honest reflection, even if it is uncomfortable sometimes, helps identify patterns that are better changed. The way I am coming to see it, is that this is about self-awareness, and with that self-knowledge, an attempt to do things differently. If I see this process as clobbering myself for being 'bad', or admonishing myself for 'faults', what I have learned from long time sober members of AA whose sobriety I respect, is that this isn't what the programme is intended to do. (note! all of this is coming from an AA perspective :-) That approach would show a lack of awareness that alcoholism is an illness, and would also mean that this process is being led by a lack of humility and a quest for never attainable perfection. It's meant to cast light on those places that seemed too dark to go to before, and voice this to another person, to God. What could be more freeing than that?
I love this stuff, it's a revelation to me. I can't live my life fully without it. One of the sustaining things is that it's all based on spiritual practices and principles which are thousands of years old. For me, that alone indicates the value of it, and the power it has to change lives. By continuing to clear the things that get in the way on a day to day basis, I can use the gifts God has given me much more fruitfully for others and myself. So, the process isn't distinguishable anymore into negatives or positives, it's just about honest reflection, accountability and strives toward change little by little, if that makes sense?
Great topic, thanks for posting
Canine Welfare Advocate
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Originally Posted by Pipefish
... it isn't my talents, abilities or assets which get me drunk or into trouble, it's character defects that drive my addiction that do this. And they do that, drunk or sober. The saying I hear often is that I'm not a bad person trying to get good, I'm a sick person trying to get well.
I fall into the fix what's broken camp. My positive traits will be there to draw on as needed
2Cor5:17
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Thats a good topic for an o/d mtg but in reality it's sharing in a balanced way your experience, strength & hope
A lot of people will rattle on & on bout their past & only 30 seconds to how good their life is now
A lot of people will rattle on & on bout their past & only 30 seconds to how good their life is now
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: OZ
Posts: 2,055
For me it really has to be the the glass half full.
As I have gotten older I am not as sensitive & defensive regarding my flaws....In am aware of them and would like to change them but its not as easy as that, evolving and change and a new mind set takes time, it is a process.
I love this...
A Cherokee Legend
An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. "A fight is going
on inside me," he said to the boy.
"It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego." He continued, "The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too."
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"
The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."
As I have gotten older I am not as sensitive & defensive regarding my flaws....In am aware of them and would like to change them but its not as easy as that, evolving and change and a new mind set takes time, it is a process.
I love this...
A Cherokee Legend
An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. "A fight is going
on inside me," he said to the boy.
"It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego." He continued, "The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too."
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"
The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
Originally Posted by jdooner
I am part of the fellowship and practice my steps but I humbly disagree with your perspective - it one that is great from an ivory tower but I dot think this is a real world perspective. AA does its best to deflate the ego and squash your pride. I am not saying this is wrong but it is what it is. Therein lies the salvation to turn your will, over to a Higher Power - step #3. I have yet to see anyone that has a large ego or pride that is able to do this step. I guess you could see this as a positive for the greater good but I think you are taking serious liberties with this perspective.
JD I guess I do not see the conflict (although I would not characterize my view as originating from an ivory tower). Working the steps is an exercise in right sizing ego and pride. This is a bigger task in some cases than others and needs nearly opposite sorts of work for different individuals. I have seen many people who come into the rooms thinking they are lower than whale sh!t. I've also seen just as many who believe they are the next best thing to God. The entire spectrum exits.
Everyone has their own row to hoe. Conditions vary. What's important is the willingness to do what it takes.
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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Originally Posted by awuh1
JD I guess I do not see the conflict (although I would not characterize my view as originating from an ivory tower). Working the steps is an exercise in right sizing ego and pride. This is a bigger task in some cases than others and needs nearly opposite sorts of work for different individuals. I have seen many people who come into the rooms thinking they are lower than whale sh!t. I've also seen just as many who believe they are the next best thing to God. The entire spectrum exits.
Everyone has their own row to hoe. Conditions vary. What's important is the willingness to do what it takes.
Everyone has their own row to hoe. Conditions vary. What's important is the willingness to do what it takes.
i never heard of AA working with each individual on a separate basis based on their self esteem level. My experience is that everybody who walks into one of those meetings is automatically an egomaniac with an inferiority complex and if you say you are not that is just your ego talking. AA seemed to me like a one size fits all kind of approach..correct me if I'm wrong
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
Originally Posted by caboblanco
i never heard of AA working with each individual on a separate basis based on their self esteem level.
Originally Posted by caboblanco
My experience is that everybody who walks into one of those meetings is automatically an egomaniac with an inferiority complex and if you say you are not that is just your ego talking. AA seemed to me like a one size fits all kind of approach..correct me if I'm wrong
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
Originally Posted by awuh1
JD I guess I do not see the conflict (although I would not characterize my view as originating from an ivory tower). Working the steps is an exercise in right sizing ego and pride. This is a bigger task in some cases than others and needs nearly opposite sorts of work for different individuals. I have seen many people who come into the rooms thinking they are lower than whale sh!t. I've also seen just as many who believe they are the next best thing to God. The entire spectrum exits.
Everyone has their own row to hoe. Conditions vary. What's important is the willingness to do what it takes.
Everyone has their own row to hoe. Conditions vary. What's important is the willingness to do what it takes.
Mini Novel Post Writer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,649
Per usual, my standard disclaimer prior to my opinion. There's no right or wrong way, whatever keeps you sober and happy about it works.
I always try to be positive but I did have to first find a way to figure out what was making me so angry and giving me all the excuses to feel like I needed to pour the alcohol to me.
I wouldn't classify it as emphasizing. It was a discovery process to get to the core problems because once identified I could work on the solution. How I interpret things now is totally different. It's made a big difference on not sweating the small stuff and quickly resolving and getting past the bigger things. This has resulted in a much better and happier existence.
In totality I guess I would then say that I do both.
I always try to be positive but I did have to first find a way to figure out what was making me so angry and giving me all the excuses to feel like I needed to pour the alcohol to me.
I wouldn't classify it as emphasizing. It was a discovery process to get to the core problems because once identified I could work on the solution. How I interpret things now is totally different. It's made a big difference on not sweating the small stuff and quickly resolving and getting past the bigger things. This has resulted in a much better and happier existence.
In totality I guess I would then say that I do both.
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