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Difference in philosophies

Old 12-30-2013, 05:24 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by jdooner View Post
AA does its best to deflate the ego and squash your pride. .
I went to an in-patient treatment center with mixed clientele. There were addicts of all kinds as well as alcoholics. For whatever reason, I was placed into a "group" with some of the worst criminal offenders at the center. We attended counceling sessions together every day and also were assigned to the same lunch/breakfast/dinner table. A couple of guys had just been released from prison downstate (not jail), a couple of other guys were on their way to the Pen after their stay, and we also had heroin dealers from the streets, and another guy from the motorcycle club up on the Indian Reservations up north. These were hardcore guys.

Our pride and ego was not only squashed, it was beaten to a bloody pulp. We were fools, jackasses, troublesome no-good mongrels who had given our families and friends nothing but pain. We were instructed to list, in front of the class, all of the terrible things we had done while drinking. One guy was made to write a letter to his wife and son and tell them why drinking and drugs were more important to him. He had to read it to all of us and was bawling. I thought I could get away from criticism but I was wrong, I was equally shamed and any pride I had was beaten down. This was military-style hazing, breaking us down one-by-one....

But you know what? We also were built back up. We got hugs, we got pats on the back. We were praised when we showed progress. We needed to change, plain and simple. We needed to be told that our old lives were not worth one single penny. At least, it worked for me.

I am smart enough to know that my old life wasn't complete garbage. And I feel quite confident and happy with myself today. But it certainly helped me when I got that slap in the face when I first tasted recovery. I needed it, because I didn't think I really had a problem. Maybe it doesn't work for everyone but it was good for me to be broken down, to be honest.
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Old 12-30-2013, 07:12 PM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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I did a 12 step program (not AA) that had me take an inventory. An inventory (if you've worked at a store/warehouse you'll know) is an accounting of what you have, where you stand RIGHT NOW.

You don't just count losses in an inventory, You count everything and see what's what. Losses, gains, and the balances as well. It's not about fault finding alone. When we look at our numbers/ledgers we can see where we are doing great, and where we are bleeding/losing. It's information we can use as we move into our future.

My step ten is like a cycle count, which means a little count of certain things...a sort of spot check.

I don't want to live a life where all I do is ask myself "what did I F up today?"
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:58 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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i never heard of AA working with each individual on a separate basis based on their self esteem level.

isn't it the individuals who "work" on themselves? on their own "defects" the way they see them?
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:48 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by fini View Post
i never heard of AA working with each individual on a separate basis based on their self esteem level.

isn't it the individuals who "work" on themselves? on their own "defects" the way they see them?
In my experience more the way Bill sees them or your sponsor. If you saw anything different then that you suffered from "terminal uniqueness"

I don't think AA ever emphasizes your positives traits which was the original question.
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Old 12-31-2013, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by caboblanco View Post
AA seemed to me like a one size fits all kind of approach..correct me if I'm wrong
That wasn't my experience, so I guess you're wrong. But it fits your experience and understanding of the program, so you're right. That's the problem with making judgmental generalizations (which ironically is your complaint about AA).

Yes, there are judgmental, "my way or the high way" type people in AA. But that's just some people. The program itself simply says, "This is what worked for us." It's a spiritual solution in which people are encouraged to bring their own individual understandings of spirituality into play. The steps are suggested as an example of what we did. AA helped me put my past in the past. I couldn't do that until I looked at it first and made amends. Maybe others can just forget about it and move on. I couldn't. When I read the Big Book, I read a lot of hope, not a lot of negativity.

So I guess if by "one size fits all" you mean that it requires a potential for belief in some sort of spirituality, sure. Although I do know several agnostics and atheists who follow the program. So I guess I'm just trying to say, probably badly, that AA fits for some and not others. It never claims to be all things to all people. That would be impossible! If it were possible, there would be one awesome program out there that everyone would flock to and it would work for everyone. As far as I know, there is no program like that. Everyone on SR has their own individual path. Mine includes AA, and I don't find it negative or judgmental or stifling or demoralizing at all. I find it empowering.

That doesn't mean I believe everyone has the same experience. So your experience is valid, but so is mine. I don't usually respond to stuff like this, and I'll probably regret it later. But oh well.
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:00 PM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by caboblanco View Post
I don't think AA ever emphasizes your positives traits which was the original question.
Actually, you didn't mention AA in your original post (perhaps it was implied), but having the thread turn into an anti-AA rant does no one good. Let's all agree to disagree and move on. Tolerance, to me, is a postive trait.
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:24 PM
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Well I guess it's clear who rules the roost here and it's not the vast majority of alcoholics...yes will move on..i promise not to bring up AA even if other people bring it up first..I will only talk about other recovery methods..
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:35 PM
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doggonecarl:

Spot on observation and advice. Time to live and let live and move on.
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Old 12-31-2013, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by caboblanco View Post
Well I guess it's clear who rules the roost here and it's not the vast majority of alcoholics...yes will move on..i promise not to bring up AA even if other people bring it up first..I will only talk about other recovery methods..
Actually our Rules 'rule the roost' here - applicable to each and every member equally.

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