if you don't think time means anything
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bklyn. NY
Posts: 1,859
Originally Posted by jazzfish 
I still believe it is a good proxy - otherwise, someone who relapses every month can have "better" sobriety than a person who is continuously sober for years.
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
I think what is being debate or discussed rather is really wisdom.
In business, I often see some of the most talented men and women in the World. Many of these kids are in their mid 20s and work for the most prestigious hedge funds in NYC. Went to an Ivy undergrad and Wharton or Harvard grad school, some worked for the CIA or Intel of Samsung before coming to Wall Street to chase the might dollar. I was one of them once. You think you know it all and you hear and listen from guys with more time about market downturns etc but you shake it off - you know better. This is how bubbles are created (Housing in the late 80s, Internet in early 2000, housing 2008, solar 2009).
Having gone through a few cycles myself in the markets, I realized there is wisdom that comes with making it through the tough times when many around you don't survive and end up exiting the Industry. I see parallels to sobriety and recovery. Some may have a better program or more faith but nothing can make up for the experience that time brings. Does this make someone who has 30 yrs any better than someone who has 3 months? No, of course not but the 30 yrs of sobriety probably has a few more experiences and a bit more wisdom to share.
I do think that someone who has just abstained from drinking (dry drunk) and is not actively in recovery hits a period of diminishing returns before 6 months - we can debate the time but I see many that seem to have flatlined in spite of being sober and its my belief this has to do with abstinence vs recovery.
BTW - This is coming from someone who only has 4 months of sobriety (next week actually).
In business, I often see some of the most talented men and women in the World. Many of these kids are in their mid 20s and work for the most prestigious hedge funds in NYC. Went to an Ivy undergrad and Wharton or Harvard grad school, some worked for the CIA or Intel of Samsung before coming to Wall Street to chase the might dollar. I was one of them once. You think you know it all and you hear and listen from guys with more time about market downturns etc but you shake it off - you know better. This is how bubbles are created (Housing in the late 80s, Internet in early 2000, housing 2008, solar 2009).
Having gone through a few cycles myself in the markets, I realized there is wisdom that comes with making it through the tough times when many around you don't survive and end up exiting the Industry. I see parallels to sobriety and recovery. Some may have a better program or more faith but nothing can make up for the experience that time brings. Does this make someone who has 30 yrs any better than someone who has 3 months? No, of course not but the 30 yrs of sobriety probably has a few more experiences and a bit more wisdom to share.
I do think that someone who has just abstained from drinking (dry drunk) and is not actively in recovery hits a period of diminishing returns before 6 months - we can debate the time but I see many that seem to have flatlined in spite of being sober and its my belief this has to do with abstinence vs recovery.
BTW - This is coming from someone who only has 4 months of sobriety (next week actually).
Better when never is never
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Wisconsin near Twin Cities
Posts: 1,745
Originally Posted by Joe Nerv
But I strongly disagree that they could have better sobriety as they still haven't honed the skills to live a life free from the grip of alcohol.
I also should clarify that I think someone can have excellent sobriety at any point in early sobriety, be it hours, days, weeks, or months. But, using myself as an example and given that today is a new day 1, I don't consider any of my previous periods of sobriety as being particularly high quality - good, maybe, and getting better, I hope.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
one reason why time sober does count for much
would be
if one is alcoholic
as we all know there is much work needed
so as to overcome this disease (to be recovered)
thus it will take time to learn of and use the tools of recovery
can we learn these tools from one other person
no
five other people
no
it seems to be a great combination of things learned from many sources
which help one to stay sober
took me months so as to have a solid clue
that was with intense work with another alcoholic
the longer that I was not drinking the more sobriety made sense
I was learning who to do and what not to do
so yes there is nothing as great for an alcoholic
as to see another alcoholic on day 1
or day 30
or day 60 - 90 - 6 months - 9 months - 1 year etc.
one thing that I needed to learn early on
One Day At A Time
if I (we) don't get through this day sober
there will probably be no sober day tomorrow for us
Mountainman
if one is alcoholic
as we all know there is much work needed
so as to overcome this disease (to be recovered)
thus it will take time to learn of and use the tools of recovery
can we learn these tools from one other person
no
five other people
no
it seems to be a great combination of things learned from many sources
which help one to stay sober
took me months so as to have a solid clue
that was with intense work with another alcoholic
the longer that I was not drinking the more sobriety made sense
I was learning who to do and what not to do
so yes there is nothing as great for an alcoholic
as to see another alcoholic on day 1
or day 30
or day 60 - 90 - 6 months - 9 months - 1 year etc.
one thing that I needed to learn early on
One Day At A Time
if I (we) don't get through this day sober
there will probably be no sober day tomorrow for us
Mountainman
.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by jdooner
Having gone through a few cycles myself in the markets, I realized there is wisdom that comes with making it through the tough times when many around you don't survive and end up exiting the Industry. I see parallels to sobriety and recovery. Some may have a better program or more faith but nothing can make up for the experience that time brings. Does this make someone who has 30 yrs any better than someone who has 3 months? No, of course not but the 30 yrs of sobriety probably has a few more experiences and a bit more wisdom to share.
First I have to face fear, adversity and failure. Then I have to walk through fear adversity and failure. And finally, I have to learn something from fear, adversity and failure. That is where experience comes in.
Sometimes patience is part of that process. Sometimes I do have to take a wait and see attitude. Sometimes I have to say the prayer "This to shall pass". However, time alone guarantees nothing. "Faith without works is dead".
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 821
Nice topic. I think time does matter somewhat. I don't work AA so I don't really celebrate milestones but, I have seen over time that I have evolved... into someone almost "new".
For example, I decided to go back to working with my degree after I was 6 months sober. My degree is in psychology so anyway...long story short... I decided instead of working mental health, which I had always done, to keep my FT job and get a PT job for less pay at a detox center.
Why? Well I truly felt the need to help others, I wanted to maintain a good income and I knew that "do-gooder" work would not enable me the lifestyle that I wanted. This is all stuff I never would have done if not sober for 6 months.
So at 8 months I was set to start the job in a week or so (background checks and everything took a while) and I went on vacation. One night on vacation I went out with my brother and decided to have a few beers....BAD IDEA. I debated what to do after that night.
After all I had blown all my TIME. I only had a few weeks sober. After looking at it long and hard I decided just to move forward with my life and my sobriety. So, to me this meant I had apparently learned a lot in my sober TIME and I had learned that choosing to drink was not for me so....
I think consecutive sober time matters but, I also think that everything one experiences on the journey to get there matters.
If someone "relapses" after ten years sober I still think that the TIME that they had in added to their experience and I could learn a lot from them. If someone "relapses" every ten days then I feel it would be tough to learn about staying sober from them. Although, that person may have tons of insight into other things.
Anyway, I hope that makes sense.
Jess
For example, I decided to go back to working with my degree after I was 6 months sober. My degree is in psychology so anyway...long story short... I decided instead of working mental health, which I had always done, to keep my FT job and get a PT job for less pay at a detox center.
Why? Well I truly felt the need to help others, I wanted to maintain a good income and I knew that "do-gooder" work would not enable me the lifestyle that I wanted. This is all stuff I never would have done if not sober for 6 months.
So at 8 months I was set to start the job in a week or so (background checks and everything took a while) and I went on vacation. One night on vacation I went out with my brother and decided to have a few beers....BAD IDEA. I debated what to do after that night.
After all I had blown all my TIME. I only had a few weeks sober. After looking at it long and hard I decided just to move forward with my life and my sobriety. So, to me this meant I had apparently learned a lot in my sober TIME and I had learned that choosing to drink was not for me so....
I think consecutive sober time matters but, I also think that everything one experiences on the journey to get there matters.
If someone "relapses" after ten years sober I still think that the TIME that they had in added to their experience and I could learn a lot from them. If someone "relapses" every ten days then I feel it would be tough to learn about staying sober from them. Although, that person may have tons of insight into other things.
Anyway, I hope that makes sense.
Jess
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: De
Posts: 1,328
The only person my sobriety is important to is me. Taking a drink IMHO. Is akin to me playing Russian Roulette. I just don't see the attraction of doing either. I have no control as to what others do, or how they act. Being a sober alcoholic doesn't negate the fact that we are all human beings. All human beings are far from perfect. Me even attempting to judge other's quality of sobriety is just another item in the long list of human defects.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,678
Nothing good happened and everything got worse with the passage of time while I was drinking. I will never be refunded all the horrific years I wasted by drinking. We can get back many things in sobriety and embark on new and exciting ventures, but lost time is not something we can ever get back.
Following my three-year relapse, my early days in sobriety were absolutely miserable. With hard work, a commitment to staying sober no matter what, and a leap of faith that there was a better way for me, life began changing very much for the better. All those things can only happen in time.
If you're still complaining about the same things after, say, a year of sobriety that you complained about in, say, your first ninety days, then something different must be done.
Following my three-year relapse, my early days in sobriety were absolutely miserable. With hard work, a commitment to staying sober no matter what, and a leap of faith that there was a better way for me, life began changing very much for the better. All those things can only happen in time.
If you're still complaining about the same things after, say, a year of sobriety that you complained about in, say, your first ninety days, then something different must be done.
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,000
I can only speak for my experience. For me, time really does matter in the first, oh, 1 - 3 months. If I am drinking once or twice a week, my mind is in a constant state of unrest because I am spending those other 5 days WANTING to drink and white-knuckling it.
Once I get past the one week mark, then 2, then 3...I notice a HUGE difference in that STRONG 'wanting to drink' feeling. The mental obsession, urges, cravings or whatever. It goes down significantly in the first month, and then more in the second, and third.
And then it is still there - I have no doubt it will always be present in some form, I need to be vigilent - but it is markedly different from those first weeks and months. Less intense, less frequent. I need to be vigilent, because if I give into it, the result is the same no matter how much 'time' I have. I can't drink period. After one week, or ten years. I can't drink safely.
I am guessing that if I string some sober YEARS together, I will start to see a bigger impact on my overall quality of life - getting courage to pursue goals, dealing with negative thought patterns, and...who knows what else? I am at the beginning of the journey.
But, yeah, I do feel I have some experience in the sporatic drinking roller-coaster ride. Not pleasant. Unbroken time in the beginning months DOES count. At least it did for me. If I'm drinking once or twice a week for 6 months, I am having a MISERABLE six months. I can't even begin to contemplate how I'm going to handle life's problems. If I can manage to get 1 month, 2 months, 3 months unbroken time - I automatically get a lovely boost for my peace of mind and I can start to figure out where to go from here.
Once I get past the one week mark, then 2, then 3...I notice a HUGE difference in that STRONG 'wanting to drink' feeling. The mental obsession, urges, cravings or whatever. It goes down significantly in the first month, and then more in the second, and third.
And then it is still there - I have no doubt it will always be present in some form, I need to be vigilent - but it is markedly different from those first weeks and months. Less intense, less frequent. I need to be vigilent, because if I give into it, the result is the same no matter how much 'time' I have. I can't drink period. After one week, or ten years. I can't drink safely.
I am guessing that if I string some sober YEARS together, I will start to see a bigger impact on my overall quality of life - getting courage to pursue goals, dealing with negative thought patterns, and...who knows what else? I am at the beginning of the journey.
But, yeah, I do feel I have some experience in the sporatic drinking roller-coaster ride. Not pleasant. Unbroken time in the beginning months DOES count. At least it did for me. If I'm drinking once or twice a week for 6 months, I am having a MISERABLE six months. I can't even begin to contemplate how I'm going to handle life's problems. If I can manage to get 1 month, 2 months, 3 months unbroken time - I automatically get a lovely boost for my peace of mind and I can start to figure out where to go from here.
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 608
I feel sober time obviously plays an important role in rebuilding what alcohol has damaged in our physical and psychological bodies. Over and above that, I feel that some people (myself included, perhaps) can use their length of sobriety as a reason to stay sober, for example, if someone says "I have over a year sober and I don't want to give that up", using that as a reason to not drink. Whatever works for ya!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
Originally Posted by BPositive
length of sobriety as a reason to stay sober, for example, if someone says "I have over a year sober and I don't want to give that up"
that exact thought was enough to stay clear (very clear)
even in the beginning
no, I didn't wish to throw away my 8 days and start over again
I had done that enough times !!
getting back yet again the days lost and starting over again get's old
very old
it's like you said "whatever works"
Mountainman
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 51
I am on day six, so at this point time is everything to me. I had to get through withdrawal and the hour upon hour to clear my head. I see what everyone is saying...today, personally, I am one day away from feeling miserable and sick and helpless.
voices ca**y
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,239
Originally Posted by Mountainmanbob
it wasn't until I relapsed twice just weeks before having 3 years sober that
I realized that staying sober and getting my 3 years would have been a big deal to me
and when I finally got back into the Program
as others have mentioned
those first days without a drink
in no way were like the ones yet to come - if I stay sober - yes, time sober means a lot
MountainmanBob
I realized that staying sober and getting my 3 years would have been a big deal to me
and when I finally got back into the Program
as others have mentioned
those first days without a drink
in no way were like the ones yet to come - if I stay sober - yes, time sober means a lot
MountainmanBob
voices ca**y
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,239
Originally Posted by thisisme
Time means nothing to me. Once it clicks it's for life.
I do get a sense of pride every d-day and look back in utter amazement on that dreadful life with alcohol.
I do get a sense of pride every d-day and look back in utter amazement on that dreadful life with alcohol.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
Originally Posted by silentrun
So what happened that made you go back out? That seems like along time to go. I have heard other people say they thought they could handle it.
I did not think about the consequences yet one more time I deceived myself into thinking that I could drink like a gentleman.wrong again
voices ca**y
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,239
Originally Posted by Mountainmanbob
I did not think about the consequences yet one more time I deceived myself into thinking that I could drink like a gentleman.wrong again
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
Time sober today is of most importance to me. There were times in my past when I was sober but, I took it all for granted. Fooled myself into thinking that I no longer needed to do my sobriety maintenance Program. In short time I was once again running a muck with the liquid devil.
Today, I keep sobriety forefront on my mind, heart and soul.
What can I do today so as to enhance my sobriety?
Keep stepping in the right sober direction .
A nice sober day wished for all,
M-Bob
Today, I keep sobriety forefront on my mind, heart and soul.
What can I do today so as to enhance my sobriety?
Keep stepping in the right sober direction .
A nice sober day wished for all,
M-Bob
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