Is this a slip?
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
I can sort of speak to this a little but only a little as I am from the "other side," of the wall -- Alanon.
About 7 years ago, Mrs. Hammer -- wandering off the safety of the AA reservation -- downed a bottle of Vanilla. 33% Alcohol or what would be called 66 proof. At that point she had about 8 years in AA. She threw it up, told me about it, said she told her local AA group, who she told me called it "just a cooking mishap," or some such. She said her sponsor said it was okay. All that seemed strange to me.
At the time I asked if she would have to start over on her Chip Date, and I was prepared to hug, cry with her, and anything else to let her know she was loved and that it would be okay. Just like when other friends have relapsed in the past.
Instead she turned and glared and said -- "Are you questioning my sobriety?" That was so weird I did not know what to make of it at the time. Looking back I would have said -- Oh Hell, Yes!
She went on and on vomiting. And then to Anorexia. And Exercise Bulimia.
Talking with her Sponsor when Mrs. Hammer was heading to Eating Disorder Rehab last year, I figured out the whole time Mrs. Hammer has been lying -- and still is. The sponsor told her to start over (start counting days is the term) on the Chip Date.
So now she is back from Eating Disorder Rehab, but still all this time still lying about her Sobriety Date. It is a case of Killer Pride. Now has her caught in a new Lying Addiction about most everything else.
Here is what I have figured out about Recovery. It is an Honesty Thing. The whole basis of the How It Works portion of AA.
Take a look at the Intro to Chapter 5, How it Works, below.
Here is what I have learned from all this -- In recovery -- Never, never, never lie. And if you do, acknowledge it, repent and get back on course.
So if someone was drinking Vanilla (or whatever) WITH THE INTENT of drinking alcohol -- go be honest -- get your 23 hour chip -- no one will hate you -- they will applaud and hug you for being honest, and you can continue to trudge the happy journey.
Instead of the lies and misery our family has been through for the last 7 years.
==============
How it works
RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
AA Chapter 5 How it works | AA | How it works|
About 7 years ago, Mrs. Hammer -- wandering off the safety of the AA reservation -- downed a bottle of Vanilla. 33% Alcohol or what would be called 66 proof. At that point she had about 8 years in AA. She threw it up, told me about it, said she told her local AA group, who she told me called it "just a cooking mishap," or some such. She said her sponsor said it was okay. All that seemed strange to me.
At the time I asked if she would have to start over on her Chip Date, and I was prepared to hug, cry with her, and anything else to let her know she was loved and that it would be okay. Just like when other friends have relapsed in the past.
Instead she turned and glared and said -- "Are you questioning my sobriety?" That was so weird I did not know what to make of it at the time. Looking back I would have said -- Oh Hell, Yes!
She went on and on vomiting. And then to Anorexia. And Exercise Bulimia.
Talking with her Sponsor when Mrs. Hammer was heading to Eating Disorder Rehab last year, I figured out the whole time Mrs. Hammer has been lying -- and still is. The sponsor told her to start over (start counting days is the term) on the Chip Date.
So now she is back from Eating Disorder Rehab, but still all this time still lying about her Sobriety Date. It is a case of Killer Pride. Now has her caught in a new Lying Addiction about most everything else.
Here is what I have figured out about Recovery. It is an Honesty Thing. The whole basis of the How It Works portion of AA.
Take a look at the Intro to Chapter 5, How it Works, below.
Here is what I have learned from all this -- In recovery -- Never, never, never lie. And if you do, acknowledge it, repent and get back on course.
So if someone was drinking Vanilla (or whatever) WITH THE INTENT of drinking alcohol -- go be honest -- get your 23 hour chip -- no one will hate you -- they will applaud and hug you for being honest, and you can continue to trudge the happy journey.
Instead of the lies and misery our family has been through for the last 7 years.
==============
How it works
RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
AA Chapter 5 How it works | AA | How it works|
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
Since I go between both sides of the streets (shoot, does it mean I play in traffic?) here is my take on this 
She threw it up, told me about it, said she told her local AA group, who she told me called it "just a cooking mishap," or some such. She said her sponsor said it was okay. All that seemed strange to me.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by foolsgold66 
I dunno, can't find 'sobriety date' anywhere in the big book. It was a bit of a joke. 
Really. Good point on the date stuff (and chips) not being in the Big Book. Yunno if it were not for that damn nonsense, we would not be stuck in the Land of Lies.
Well, guess I do not know if that were true. At least it would not be that lie that was the base one.
Thanks again.
Hey I am just going to wander back out of here, before I make a real ass of myself, and go back down to the Friends and Family section.
Nice visiting, though.
Like the way you all decorated the place. Holidays and all I guess. Okay. see you.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Originally Posted by GracieLou
Was it even "real" vanilla? Most today are imitation extract. They have no alcohol in them in less you want to count "Ethyl Vanillin". Now "real" vanilla extract does but you would have to drink quite a bit to get any type of buzz and that stuff is expensive.
I think if you wanted to slip or relapse there is a much cheaper way to go about it.
If she was truly just trying the extract to see if it created a vanilla Coke taste then she did not slip or relapse, IMO. She just wanted a flavored Coke.
I think if you wanted to slip or relapse there is a much cheaper way to go about it.
If she was truly just trying the extract to see if it created a vanilla Coke taste then she did not slip or relapse, IMO. She just wanted a flavored Coke.
Some supermarket chains in NY stock pure vanilla extract behind the customer service counter in order to prevent minors from purchasing it.
Vanilla flavoring that is not labeled as "pure vanilla extract" has roughly the same amount of alcohol that's in non-alcoholic beer, but most don't have any at all.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic USA
Posts: 2,441
Trying to be a little rational here. Vanilla extract is usually 35% to 40% Alcohol by Volume.
Let's assume this person put a tablespoon of extract in the soda (and I suspect this person used less than a tablespoon). A tablespoon is 1/2 of an ounce. One hard liquor drink is 1.5 ounces of 40% ABV liquor. The amount of extract used was equivalent to 1/3 of what is considered one drink. Your friend than put that 1/3 of one drink into 12 ounces of Coke and then took a sip.
So the amount of actual alcohol that entered this person's system was minuscule. And certainly not enough for this person to become anything close to intoxicated.
I think the question here is intent. Did this person intend to use the vanilla extract as an alcoholic beverage? Did he/she intend to get a buzz?
Or did this person just want a taste of vanilla in the soda? If it's the latter, the person didn't slip, and IMO there is no need to set a new start date, and really nothing even to discuss. However, if it's the former, and the person was using the extract as an alcoholic beverage, there is a case to be made for a slip.
(BTW, I'm guessing that many, many long-time sober alcoholics have unknowingly ingested very small amounts of alcohol from consuming a type of food substance, a liquid or a medication. They just never realized they had done so).
Let's assume this person put a tablespoon of extract in the soda (and I suspect this person used less than a tablespoon). A tablespoon is 1/2 of an ounce. One hard liquor drink is 1.5 ounces of 40% ABV liquor. The amount of extract used was equivalent to 1/3 of what is considered one drink. Your friend than put that 1/3 of one drink into 12 ounces of Coke and then took a sip.
So the amount of actual alcohol that entered this person's system was minuscule. And certainly not enough for this person to become anything close to intoxicated.
I think the question here is intent. Did this person intend to use the vanilla extract as an alcoholic beverage? Did he/she intend to get a buzz?
Or did this person just want a taste of vanilla in the soda? If it's the latter, the person didn't slip, and IMO there is no need to set a new start date, and really nothing even to discuss. However, if it's the former, and the person was using the extract as an alcoholic beverage, there is a case to be made for a slip.
(BTW, I'm guessing that many, many long-time sober alcoholics have unknowingly ingested very small amounts of alcohol from consuming a type of food substance, a liquid or a medication. They just never realized they had done so).
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bklyn. NY
Posts: 1,859
Originally Posted by KissMyTiara
How ridiculous is this anyways. A drop of vanilla causes a whole AA group to get up in arms. And argue about it? That's why I stay away.
As for the OP, if it were me, a friend, or a sponsee of mine my answer would be no. It wouldn't even be a thought. There is no benefit in calling it a slip, and I see no reason to define it as one. I think most would agree.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,785
Originally Posted by EndGameNYC
Vanilla flavoring that is not labeled as "pure vanilla extract" has roughly the same amount of alcohol that's in non-alcoholic beer, but most don't have any at all.
The only thing it had in the ingredients that even made me blink was the Ethyl Vanillin.
Still, even if it was the real stuff, it would take a lot to get buzzed off that. I think the person may be older than a teenager so if they wanted to relapse they could have just bought booze.
I am not saying this person with the vanilla may not have had some type of ulterior motive in mind, but as we all agree, that is none of my business.
If I ever go back out it would be in a blaze of glory, not with a bottle of extract. Just saying...lol
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Northern California
Posts: 563
Originally Posted by EndGameNYC
The FDA requires a minimum of 35% alcohol content when you label your product as "pure vanilla extract." In other words, 70 proof. Many manufacturers use more alcohol, and I can't recall why they do so. It's very easy to get drunk on vanilla extract, and kids have been doing so for decades.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
Originally Posted by HJFgirl
If someone with four years sobriety puts vanilla in a Coca-Cola because they want to drink a vanilla coke, is it considered a slip? me!)
unless
one poured two shot glasses of vanilla in
MB
Grateful
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 1,763
I just had to google using vanilla extract to make a vanilla Coke. The answer I got is that you would only use a couple of drops, so if she tasted it and it tasted like alcohol she either put too much in or forgot to stir it. It sounds purely like an accident, and if so should not be considered a slip or relapse.
I would like to offer an alternative suggestion. Add a scoop (or two) of your favorite vanilla ice cream in your Coke. It's delicious and I bet it tastes a lot more like a vanilla Coke than I can imagine vanilla extract in a Coke would taste. I've never tried vanilla extract in a Coke because vanilla ice cream works so well and there is almost always some on hand in this household.
I would like to offer an alternative suggestion. Add a scoop (or two) of your favorite vanilla ice cream in your Coke. It's delicious and I bet it tastes a lot more like a vanilla Coke than I can imagine vanilla extract in a Coke would taste. I've never tried vanilla extract in a Coke because vanilla ice cream works so well and there is almost always some on hand in this household.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 695
All I can say is...with this kind of riveting conversation it easy to understand why we all come back to SR every night!!
God, I am so boring...I actually found this topic interesting enough to take the time to post! - not once- but twice!
God, I am so boring...I actually found this topic interesting enough to take the time to post! - not once- but twice!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: State of Acceptance
Posts: 756
Originally Posted by Leana
All I can say is...with this kind of riveting conversation it easy to understand why we all come back to SR every night!!
God, I am so boring...I actually found this topic interesting enough to take the time to post! - not once- but twice!
God, I am so boring...I actually found this topic interesting enough to take the time to post! - not once- but twice!
LOL!!!
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