jazzfish

Last night, I came across the following quote: "It is easier to act yourself into a new way of thinking, than it is to think yourself into a new way of acting." This would explain a lot in my case, but I am curious as to the experience of others.

I would interpret "thinking" as thinking things through enough, but not necessarily completely to some end point, then right action will follow. "Action" would be in the vein of "fake it 'til you make it."

What is your experience?

Hawkeye13

"Fake it till you make it" was mine since I overthunk just about everything before and since. As I make my living as an academic, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised at that. BS is our motto, after all. . .

Seriously, I felt like I was just going through the motions many times, and still do, but less often. I knew where I didn't want to be, and I had an idea of where I wanted to end up, but the mental and spiritual country between is the place I'm still imagining myself through. I have such trouble "being" in the present without the hamster wheel in my head speculating about tomorrow or rehashing yesterday.

When I can just hold it, look around, think only about my next move, I tend to make choices that might be termed "right actions". When I get lost in my head I f*&# up.

But being sober and doing this has made all the difference.

foolsgold66

That seems to be a commentary on habits in general. While addiction is more than just a habit, there is a great deal of habit ingrained into it it. That is how some drunks beat alcohol without meetings or support, despite the 'white-knuckling' verbiage you hear in some recovery organizations. You focus your will upon it for a long enough period of time without drinking so that ceases its constant siren call, and then you have replaced your drinking habit with a not drinking habit.

jaynie04

I have tried to remind myself in my new sobriety that the times in my life that I am most proud of were the times that felt uncomfortable as all get out at the beginning. New schools, new jobs...even a new car, every time we involve ourselves with something that is fresh and strange I think we feel like imposters at first.

Thanks for that very good quote. I think swimming around too much in our own minds is something that seems to be common among us. I was even thinking earlier this am when reading a post, sometimes we just have to get sober first and ask questions later.

Sanantoniosober

I hated "fake it til you make it." Still do, but it does seem to work.

BackToSquareOne

Fake it till you make it and acting the part is what everyone does. Who really starts out as an expert in whatever they are trying to do? I kind of think some can get stuck in the acting the part phase tho. A good talker, bull-sh.. artist can go far in the world while knowing very little about what they are doing. Don't we see this all the time where the person can talk the talk but when it comes to walking the walk its another story.

Boleo

"Faith without works is dead". Long before that quote appeared in the AA Big Book it appeared in the other Big Book. What that means is thinking about doing it is not the same as doing it. You can love someone from a distance but if you never lift a finger to help them, is it love or is it day-dreaming?

My experience with spiritual growth is it does not occur as a result of wishful thinking, lip-service or prayer alone. In order for me to truly "realize" something I have to A) do it at least once B) repeat it often enough that becomes part of who I am.

This more or less corresponds to what the ancient Greeks called "repetition":

"When the Greeks said that all knowing is recollecting, they said that all existence, which is, has been; when one says that life is a repetition, one says; actually, which has been, now comes into existence. If one does not have the category of recollection or of repetition, all life dissolves into an empty, meaningless noise."

awuh1

I think of it this way.

Imagine that you would like to become a carpenter. It would be far better to learn the necessary skills while being guided by someone who is a skilled carpenter than by reading about carpentry by in books and trying to imagine how to do everything.

An intellectual understanding of some things only takes you so far. True understanding of some things comes only through doing.

The phrase is often used by folks in AA to refer to doing the steps. You can read the steps and you can read about the steps but you will not have a genuine understanding of them untill you do them.

Good luck building your house.

Gottalife

I suppose it is important to define what you mean by act. Two meanings could be taken in this context:

One would be act: as in actor, pretending to be someone you are not- fake, dishonest.

the other would be act: as in take action. Like Awuh's example, taking the actions that a carpenter takes under supervision is in fact developing the skill of carpentry.

Merely pretending to be a carpenter (faith without works), on the otherhand, is developing no skill. Fake, not real.

I don't like fake it till you make it. It does not fit with an honest way of living which requires action to develop.

GracieLou

I never liked that quote either. It seems to say to me "pretend you are in recovery until you are".

I doubt that the first person that said this meant it to be taken so literally or used as an excuse to procrastinate or relapse. I am sure they were thinking along the lines of "Keep coming back". That phrase to me means, "if you don't understand, keep coming back and you will".

I too like "faith with out works is dead". It seems more on point and there is no other way to interpret the saying. It is pretty straight up.

I know I can think myself into anything. My mind can spin faster than Charlette can spin a web. Thinking and doing are obviously two different things.

I have learned a lot from action. In the beginning, just going to meetings every week, for me, was action. I was just commenting last week how dirty my truck is. There is crap every where, mostly AA related or empty cigarette packs and pop/water bottles because I spend more time in my truck now. Before it was to work and back and to the liquor/grocery store. That was it. Now I am all over the place.

Then I started to setup/close meetings. I have started to chair meetings. More action. I have learned from these. My faith has gotten stronger and my gratitude has grown.

So, in my case, action has brought on a new way of thinking and looking at things and other people. The more gratitude I feel the more I want to be part of the solution. I want to help others and in doing that I stay sober. I no longer think about what I want or what I need.

On Sunday I went to an early 6:45 am meeting. Morning Meditation. I am loving this meeting. I took a cherry dumpcake to share. Everyone loved it and thanked me. And I admit there was a little selfish in there because I wanted some for myself (so yummy), but I did not have the "atta-girl" attitude nor the "they like me" that I always was looking for. Instead I was thanking them for being there.

I know a little more now about what it takes to set up and to chair a meeting so instead of looking for praise, I felt gratitude. That is a result of action.

Threshold

I don't like the "fake it till you make it" wording, because it's not faking it, it's learning a new skill, testing out a new perspective, putting something into action even though you aren't yet sure how it's going to feel or work.

A little kid scribbling on a paper and saying "Mommy, look what I wrote!" is faking it.
pretending. No real effort at real writing, just going through the motions.

A little kid looking at a letter and doing their best to write it themselves isn't faking it, they are learning it.

When I got into 12 step I faked it...I didn't even realize at the time that I was. I said all the things I heard old timers say, but I had no clue what they meant, just that they sounded smart. I repeated the words my sponsor told me to, as if they were magic spells.

I relapsed and felt cheated by the program...it didn't work.

Later on I found a different sponsor, and a work book, and I "did" the work to the best of my ability. I wasn't faking it, or trying to sound good, look good, or get through my steps faster than anyone else. In fact I lived in an isolated spot with no meetings, it was impossible for me to try to sound smart, look smart or compare myself to anyone.

That lack of having to prove myself was a real gift to me at that point. I wasn't afraid to be honest, get angry, do something, then have to do it again. I just messed with it until I "got" it.

MIRecovery

It sucks when the things I hate work because they're a painful lesson in humility

Boleo

I used to hate the "Fake It Till Ya Make It!" slogan till I realized;

"putting something into action" is just plain good Karma.

Karma does not depend on good motives or expectations.

jazzfish

I wouldn't take the slogan too literally. When you first get sober just about everything feels unauthentic, unfamiliar, and uncomfortable. Early sobriety just doesn't feel like the 'real' you, so you do fake a lot of things until they become (or reveal) the real you.

deeker

Thinking is the source of my problem. It got me drunk and high.

I can't think myself clean and sober. I have to take action by that I mean I have to take suggestions from people who are staying clean and sober and actually do what they did. Until I started doing that I stayed drunk and high for 30 something years on and off.

When I finally did do what others had told me in AA I was angry I hadn't done it a lot sooner because relief came sooner than I had expected. I wasted a lot of time.

BadCompany

The attitude is the father of the action. In AA the first three steps are about changing my attitude.

waynetheking

For me it was that period of time when I didn't know what to do with myself. "You can't think ur way into good living, you have to live ur way into good thinking"...so just don't drink. Eventually you're thinking will change. It has too. Cause ur not drinking and living well. Sounds backwards but try it. Its works!!

Zencat

When my thinking (having a plan) and action (persistence) go together towards a recovery goal, I succeeded. I persistently followed a CBT recovery method that other determined long time sober individuals followed. With that I made progress into a life that is happy, joyous and free

When the desire to get sober became greater than the desire to get drunk, I woke-up spiritually.