rowd44

In the Big Book it says “rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path”….”those who do not recovery are people who cannot or will not give themselves completely to the program”.

Early in my program here’s what I read “rarely have we seen a person fail”...then I stopped. I didn't keep reading the next key words "who has thoroughly followed our path".

I failed not once but several times because of not reading the last part of this statement. I was in a cycle that looked like this...30-40 days of sobriety…back to drinking. 30-40 days...back to drinking…for months!

The 12 step program doesn't imply showing up for meetings & living with your old thinking and thoughts will be the solution. No it says…”our path”. The path of people who have recovered. Understanding that path is imperative and then letting go completely and applying my new found understanding in form of action will help us recover. I have to remember applicable action. This is the key I was missing. Without action, I may be knowledgeable but will remain drunk.

Gottalife

Nice post Rowd.
For a few years in our local AA it could have been "rarely have we seen a person thoroughly follow our path" and the results were as you would expect. But in recent years we are seeing a lot more focus on the path, more litterature based meetings focussing on the solution and what we need to do, and, funnily enough, more people seem to be getting well.

As we get back to our simple message and get away from being amateur therapists, perhaps the newcomer will find something more attractive about AA.

caboblanco

thats like saying rarely do we see a person fail who has not failed

Nineteen67

Yep, utter nonsense.

GracieLou

I think for some that following "our path" seems to indicate that one, we know everything and two that you have to do it our way. I have found it is not his or her way, it is a way that works for me.

Many still want to control and balk at the thought of doing things another way. It took me a minute or two to understand that I had no idea how to live sober.

Once I accepted help, learned how to live sober and then applied it, that is when some of those promises started to appear.

afloatsober

So true for this alcoholic.
I read 'rarely have we seen a person fail who thoroughly followed our path, unless if to do so would take them out of their comfort zone, inconvenience them unduly or ....'
And i drank over and over again.
At the end i finally became teachable and (when i was a able to walk) began to 'get stupid', walk the walk and take action!
All the knowledge in all the world and the very best intentions had failed me.
Thanks for your post.
G an alcoholic

KateL

Massive fail rate percentage in the UK unfortunately.

makomago

No its nothing like that at all. You are adding your own meanings to words. Meanings that don't exist. You're reading what you want to read, not what is written.

What was said originally is "Rarely" i.e. not often, seldom have we seen a person fail. It does not say we have absolutely never, not once ever seen a person fail etc etc... as your interpretation of the quote infers.

I'm assuming you disagree with the quote, I might be wrong, but in the experience of the person, or people (as in big book) that could be 100% true. That might not be your experience, but the quote did not say Rarely has caboblanco seen a person fail etc etc.

So the quote still rings true.

And on the basis that the program of AA is a suggested program of recovery, you would expect that if you follow it (thoroughly) you would recover.

I often wonder if those who criticise this phrase (rarely have we seen etc etc) would they criticise a Map, or Sat Nav that said if you go the route we tell you thoroughly, you will not get lost.... ???

... I know maps and life make a bit of a poor analogy, but its not so wild is it?

I for one followed the directions (suggestions) in the book Alcoholics Anonymous, I am sober today. I am happy with that. I know to whom I am grateful and for me that is all that counts.

M

makomago

What has a massive fail rate percentage?

I assume you mean AA?

If you do have a reliable source for those statistics, I'd be interested to learn more about the statistical study (who did it, when, where, on how many, what the 'judgement' was made upon).

Statistics can be a real pain, but summaries of them such as yours "Massive fail rate" doesn't help those who have a genuine interest in them :-)

What I would say, to carry on my weak analogy is;

Lots of people get lost driving on roads and walking on paths when they map read. That doesn't make the map wrong or maps in general a failure.

I had a poor curry last night in an Indian restaurant. Does that mean restaurants are rubbish, a failure?

Your statement raises more questions than it answers for me.

afloatsober

Sorry it didn't work for you KateL.
I meet with hundreds each week for whom it is working thank God.
Gx

Gottalife

Yep the quote rings true for me too. I followed their path, which means I did what they did, and recovered. And of those I see do the same thing, most seem to recover. Just my experience.

Johnston

Rarely have I seen a person get drunk who has decided to stay sober.

caboblanco

if a person failed the people at AA will just say that he didn't follow the program correctly giving you a perfect success rate for people who follow the program correctly..lol.

If someone drops out of the program or starts drinking again it's a fail to me..which is most people who attend

ippochick

most people, cabo? are you following the program yourself and noting people who don't come back to a particular meeting? or is it those that you know for sure have gone back out?

genuinely interested as i am 3 weeks in to AA and i love it. there is a huge network even in this relatively small town, and a lot of people with 5 years plus sobriety.

Joe Nerv

I recently heard someone intentionally read it like that at a meeting. I thought it was funny. My experience is the same as the original quote. It is rare that i've seen anyone who's earnestly followed this path, fail. I can actually only think of one, and there's a good chance that guy falls into the category of those who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves.

KateL

I don't need a source although I am sure I can find one if you insist. I used to go to 7 meetings a week and most of those whom I befriended went back to drinking eventually. I left and have not had a drink in ten years.

KateL

If you love it, that fabulous and you should stick with it It is not fair for some to suggest it is the only way however, because some people just don't take to it.

KateL

That's great news

BackToSquareOne

I always wondered if the whole "Powerlessness" message is a good or bad thing. Some people can hear that and just use it as more fuel for the fire. "I'm powerless anyhow, I'm never going to have that illusive spiritual experience so why even bother trying". It seems like it could be a double edged sword.

makomago

I don't keep statistics on behalf of AA and I suspect neither do you.

Your assessment of failure is black and white thinking. I know of people who attended AA started the program and then decided they weren't alcoholic and started drinking again. They're still drinking. They don't as far as I know (or care) drink alcoholically. They seem to me to be perfectly happy - where are they in your (imaginary AA) scorecard?

If someone goes to AA, by their own choice they're free to drop out of their own choice. Anything else would be - I dunno - slavery or something?

People are free to come and free to go; if they go it doesn't make it (the AA program) a failure, nor does it make them (the person) a failure.

AA 12 steps is a suggested program of recovery. It is not compulsory. I'm guessing that you tried it and didn't like 'something' in it?