Power
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Power
Did you ever flip the powerlessness equation around and ask just how much you really have power over? In the whole scheme of things, the universe, life, death, in fact almost everything, you really don't have power over much of it.
If you were to make a list of everything you are powerless over it would be unending, the things you have power over would be quite small. I kind of flip back and forth over the topic of whether or not I had power over becomming an alcoholic in the first place. Any thoughts?
If you were to make a list of everything you are powerless over it would be unending, the things you have power over would be quite small. I kind of flip back and forth over the topic of whether or not I had power over becomming an alcoholic in the first place. Any thoughts?
Better when never is never
Join Date: Sep 2011
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It depends on you perspective on power. We typically think of it as dominating and controlling something; however, power can also refer to the ability to love, influence and transform through our actions. I do not have power to control the universe, but I do have the power to make the universe a better place through my actions. I have a certain power over other people based on how I act and react, but it is not a power to control and dominate. I have power over alcohol based on my thinking, actions, and decisions; but I have no control over what alcohol does to me if I ingest it.
Personally, I think that at one time I had the power over whether I became addicted to alcohol by choosing to abuse it for too long. I have now lost that power. I am now powerless over being an alcohol addict and over what alcohol does to me if I take it, but I do retain the power to determine whether alcohol enters my system or not.
Personally, I think that at one time I had the power over whether I became addicted to alcohol by choosing to abuse it for too long. I have now lost that power. I am now powerless over being an alcohol addict and over what alcohol does to me if I take it, but I do retain the power to determine whether alcohol enters my system or not.
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It's all kid of confusing because we basically react to whatever life throws at us based on the knowledge we have at the time. The mind searches its data base and comes up with one decision or another. Our decisions tho are colored by whats in the data base. When you get into the biology of addiction the power question can get harder to answer.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne 
Did you ever flip the powerlessness equation around and ask just how much you really have power over?
After recovery - power is something I attract with detachment. Like a vacuum.
The vacuum leaves me with a lot less debris.
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
I feel much like you back, there is very little I have power over, heck, maybe nothing. I have a certain amount of choice in most areas of my life, but even those are limited due to circumstances beyond my control.
I aim more for wisdom, to recognize the most purposeful choices and opportunities, to know when to pick up my feet and go with the current, to know when to mess around a bit.
When I got into 12 step, I didn't focus much on powerlessness, for me it was more about unmanageability. I could have argued the power issue till I was blue in the face or drunk in the gutter, but it was clear life was unmangeable. That word makes a lot of sense to me.
My BF manages a store. He is depressed and stressed that he can't move displays around as he likes, install a fountain machine, and set up tables and chairs..because the GM says no. He is angry that his store is located off the beaten track and another nearby store gets more foot traffic.
Those are things he has no power over. I remind him that he is hired to manage the store, just as it is, not to alter the order of the Universe.
I think my life is like that. I don't have power to alter the Universe, my task is to manage my life. Universe is the GM, takes a load off my shoulders...if I let it. If I struggle with it, under some delusion that I can wrest power from it, I frustrate and exhaust myself and end up pulling out my hair in a rage.
I don't think I had power over whether or not to be an addict. But I have choice about how to manage it. I have chosen to quit my several obvious addictions and stay mindful to not develop any new ones.
I aim more for wisdom, to recognize the most purposeful choices and opportunities, to know when to pick up my feet and go with the current, to know when to mess around a bit.
When I got into 12 step, I didn't focus much on powerlessness, for me it was more about unmanageability. I could have argued the power issue till I was blue in the face or drunk in the gutter, but it was clear life was unmangeable. That word makes a lot of sense to me.
My BF manages a store. He is depressed and stressed that he can't move displays around as he likes, install a fountain machine, and set up tables and chairs..because the GM says no. He is angry that his store is located off the beaten track and another nearby store gets more foot traffic.
Those are things he has no power over. I remind him that he is hired to manage the store, just as it is, not to alter the order of the Universe.
I think my life is like that. I don't have power to alter the Universe, my task is to manage my life. Universe is the GM, takes a load off my shoulders...if I let it. If I struggle with it, under some delusion that I can wrest power from it, I frustrate and exhaust myself and end up pulling out my hair in a rage.
I don't think I had power over whether or not to be an addict. But I have choice about how to manage it. I have chosen to quit my several obvious addictions and stay mindful to not develop any new ones.
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 480
Interesting question, BTSO.
I don't typically think of power in the human terms as Jazz described. I think of it in terms of the power to impact, make a difference. I believe we are given the capacity for a great deal of this power ("Greater things than these shall you do" and all that) yet I, for one, am unable to tap into and utilize this power on my own. Perhaps the Science of Mind and other religious folks are closer to the mark: I am a conduit for the Power to make a difference and "of myself I am nothing". That certainly would appear true in my life - you know, just looking at the record.
I do not believe my alcoholism came from years of abuse. I believe I was born with the metabolic/biological component and had also the curious secondary 'mental twist'. From the first drink, at about 12, my dilemma was how to get the bad tasting stuff into me; I knew it had what I wanted/needed.
Lack of power has been a problem for me my entire life. I wanted to be a good person, make a positive difference, contribute meaningfully and be happy and fulfilled doing so, but I couldn't. I wanted to feel at ease and be free of self-conscious preoccupation, but I couldn't. I wanted to live comfortably in the constantly shifting sea of life, but I only felt anxiety, agitation and chronic fear that this time, my boat would sink.
I believe we are triune beings, that we are not meant to go it alone, without God/Higher Consciousness/Spirit of the Universe/Whatever. Trying to do so is limping along without a third of our intended Self and, just looking at a lot of the world around me, this seems to fit. It seems to me that, trying to live just with mind/body is an unnatural, impoverished state of being. Powerless, you might say.
Thanks for the topic.
I don't typically think of power in the human terms as Jazz described. I think of it in terms of the power to impact, make a difference. I believe we are given the capacity for a great deal of this power ("Greater things than these shall you do" and all that) yet I, for one, am unable to tap into and utilize this power on my own. Perhaps the Science of Mind and other religious folks are closer to the mark: I am a conduit for the Power to make a difference and "of myself I am nothing". That certainly would appear true in my life - you know, just looking at the record.
I do not believe my alcoholism came from years of abuse. I believe I was born with the metabolic/biological component and had also the curious secondary 'mental twist'. From the first drink, at about 12, my dilemma was how to get the bad tasting stuff into me; I knew it had what I wanted/needed.
Lack of power has been a problem for me my entire life. I wanted to be a good person, make a positive difference, contribute meaningfully and be happy and fulfilled doing so, but I couldn't. I wanted to feel at ease and be free of self-conscious preoccupation, but I couldn't. I wanted to live comfortably in the constantly shifting sea of life, but I only felt anxiety, agitation and chronic fear that this time, my boat would sink.
I believe we are triune beings, that we are not meant to go it alone, without God/Higher Consciousness/Spirit of the Universe/Whatever. Trying to do so is limping along without a third of our intended Self and, just looking at a lot of the world around me, this seems to fit. It seems to me that, trying to live just with mind/body is an unnatural, impoverished state of being. Powerless, you might say.
Thanks for the topic.
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: US East Coast
Posts: 1,972
As far as alcohol goes, I feel I have the power to not take that first drink. After that, things get iffy.
As far as life in general, I am exerting more power over time. I cut my expenses so I was no longer enslaved to a job I hated. I've learned to say no a lot to family and friends.
As far as life in general, I am exerting more power over time. I cut my expenses so I was no longer enslaved to a job I hated. I've learned to say no a lot to family and friends.
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Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
Did you ever flip the powerlessness equation around and ask just how much you really have power over? In the whole scheme of things, the universe, life, death, in fact almost everything, you really don't have power over much of it.
If you were to make a list of everything you are powerless over it would be unending, the things you have power over would be quite small. I kind of flip back and forth over the topic of whether or not I had power over becomming an alcoholic in the first place. Any thoughts?
If you were to make a list of everything you are powerless over it would be unending, the things you have power over would be quite small. I kind of flip back and forth over the topic of whether or not I had power over becomming an alcoholic in the first place. Any thoughts?
i have power "over" rather little, and no, i do not believe i had power over becoming/being an alcoholic in the first place.
but: i have power to do all kinds of stuff. power to make all kinds of decisions and follow through. a decision to come here, for example. a decision to help someone or not. a decision to be kind or not. to make that call or not.
i have quite a bit of power "to".
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ct.
Posts: 173
When I think/feel of power I think of "living from the inside out." For me, when I am fully empowered I feel furthest from addictive behaviors, more self contained and make better decisions, based more on what H.P. would have me do instead of living in my head. I like what Boleo said about detachment also. When I have clean boundaries and am fully empowered I feel like I have that glow that attracts, and I can choose what to let in and what not to.
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I've always found it interesting to study the mind and how it works, science, religions, belief systems and all of those things. What I seem to come away with more and more is not how much we know, but how much we really don't know. We have some pieces of the puzzle figured out but most of it still remains a mystery.
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Vashon WA
Posts: 1,035
Whether I like it or not I have power over many people, not the least of which are my kids. I risk hurting these people when I treat this power casually. This is a pillar of my sobriety.
Today I went to the hospital to visit an old friend who is battling bone cancer and it reminds me that we really don't have much power.
Today I went to the hospital to visit an old friend who is battling bone cancer and it reminds me that we really don't have much power.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Choices made are both the pathway to empowerment and also the power manifested in the journey to power.
Human choices have made all the difference utterly and completely. There is nothing untouched by our choices - including God.
Choices made and the power to choose both as individuals and as gathered peoples continues to define and redefine reality. There is nothing that without human experience which has any meaning - including God.
Without humanity there is nothing important - humans are themselves relatively insignificant in the universe of course - but our collective power to choose has made all the difference and more importantly our collective abilities (and responsibilities) to choose continues to manifest amongst our peoples more empowered day by day across the earth.
We have unlimited power of choice.
Human choices have made all the difference utterly and completely. There is nothing untouched by our choices - including God.
Choices made and the power to choose both as individuals and as gathered peoples continues to define and redefine reality. There is nothing that without human experience which has any meaning - including God.
Without humanity there is nothing important - humans are themselves relatively insignificant in the universe of course - but our collective power to choose has made all the difference and more importantly our collective abilities (and responsibilities) to choose continues to manifest amongst our peoples more empowered day by day across the earth.
We have unlimited power of choice.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
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Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
Did you ever flip the powerlessness equation around and ask just how much you really have power over? In the whole scheme of things, the universe, life, death, in fact almost everything, you really don't have power over much of it.
If you were to make a list of everything you are powerless over it would be unending, the things you have power over would be quite small. I kind of flip back and forth over the topic of whether or not I had power over becomming an alcoholic in the first place. Any thoughts?
If you were to make a list of everything you are powerless over it would be unending, the things you have power over would be quite small. I kind of flip back and forth over the topic of whether or not I had power over becomming an alcoholic in the first place. Any thoughts?
For this question My answer would be NO! If I knew what my life would be like by taking that 1st drink, I still don't know that I would have had the power to say No!. I guess I would have believed I would be different . Until you "live that life" I do not think one can comprehend "that Life"
Wanna feel powerless? read non-fiction books on the UNIVERSE. I live on the Ocean. Sit on the beach and take a gander at the expanse of water and YOU gotta know we are a grain of sand in the scheme of things.
IMO the only thing I have any power over is Me and My choices.
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Wow!! Great responses and insights everyone!! I have a question. Do you think power, choice and free will play a roll in depression and happiness. I seem to be finding that in many ways happiness is a choice. We can cultivate happiness to a certain degree by changing perceptions.
Some other things I found helpful were to work on getting rid of as much of the negative stuff in my life as possible, that's kind of an ongoing process. The most important thing for me tho was to learn which thoughts were worth giving importance to and which to let go of. Exercise is another biggie for me as I notice a big change in a couple of days without it.
There was an old Kenny Rogers song called "The Gambler" Kenny Rogers - The Gambler [Original Video-Edit] 1978 - YouTube The line " You got to know when to hold up, know when to fold up, know when to walk away and know when to run" always stuck with me because it seems to apply to so many things in life.
Do you see happiness as a choice or am I all wet?
Some other things I found helpful were to work on getting rid of as much of the negative stuff in my life as possible, that's kind of an ongoing process. The most important thing for me tho was to learn which thoughts were worth giving importance to and which to let go of. Exercise is another biggie for me as I notice a big change in a couple of days without it.
There was an old Kenny Rogers song called "The Gambler" Kenny Rogers - The Gambler [Original Video-Edit] 1978 - YouTube The line " You got to know when to hold up, know when to fold up, know when to walk away and know when to run" always stuck with me because it seems to apply to so many things in life.
Do you see happiness as a choice or am I all wet?
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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First question:
I believe I have absolute power of perception as a conscious being.
I become less powerful when I choose to perceive dishonestly / unclearly such as when I give my AV voice credibility and buy into its narrowing of focus on desire over outcome.
Since I always am the agent (one who acts) in my life I can choose actions which align or don't align me to greater opportunities and perceptions (aka "personal growth")
Your second question:
As a human, I have desire for greater and lesser things. I have a desire for physical comfort and safety, sensory pleasure, and overall I have a strong urge towards spiritual development and growth so that I can be more helpful to myself and others.
This means, to me, that I can deploy my power of active and honest perception to make wise choices that will increase my personal power and increase the chances that I will choose, through free will, to have an authentic understanding of my true state. I have avoided being honest with myself about myself and my situation in many ways through the years, but the biggest way is through drinking alcohol.
Since I am responsible for seeing and acting in the world, I have been abdicating my free will to alcohol for years. For the past two years I have been accepting that I have to make choices and live with their consequences. Due to my drinking I have created more obstacles to overcome than I might have. I think you are on to something with the releasing negative things--I actively have been doing that, and forgiving my past and myself. This has helped a great deal. Cultivating a positive self image is critical to recovery--especially for those of us who don't choose to work within a structured recovery system.
OK--now I really need another cup of coffee. I freely choose my caffine stimulant
***Third question: Yes, happiness is a choice for most of us, especially if you have suffered greatly.
I believe I have absolute power of perception as a conscious being.
I become less powerful when I choose to perceive dishonestly / unclearly such as when I give my AV voice credibility and buy into its narrowing of focus on desire over outcome.
Since I always am the agent (one who acts) in my life I can choose actions which align or don't align me to greater opportunities and perceptions (aka "personal growth")
Your second question:
As a human, I have desire for greater and lesser things. I have a desire for physical comfort and safety, sensory pleasure, and overall I have a strong urge towards spiritual development and growth so that I can be more helpful to myself and others.
This means, to me, that I can deploy my power of active and honest perception to make wise choices that will increase my personal power and increase the chances that I will choose, through free will, to have an authentic understanding of my true state. I have avoided being honest with myself about myself and my situation in many ways through the years, but the biggest way is through drinking alcohol.
Since I am responsible for seeing and acting in the world, I have been abdicating my free will to alcohol for years. For the past two years I have been accepting that I have to make choices and live with their consequences. Due to my drinking I have created more obstacles to overcome than I might have. I think you are on to something with the releasing negative things--I actively have been doing that, and forgiving my past and myself. This has helped a great deal. Cultivating a positive self image is critical to recovery--especially for those of us who don't choose to work within a structured recovery system.
OK--now I really need another cup of coffee. I freely choose my caffine stimulant
***Third question: Yes, happiness is a choice for most of us, especially if you have suffered greatly.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: highland beach, florida
Posts: 649
Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
Wow!! Great responses and insights everyone!! I have a question. Do you think power, choice and free will play a roll in depression and happiness. I seem to be finding that in many ways happiness is a choice. We can cultivate happiness to a certain degree by changing perceptions.
Do you see happiness as a choice or am I all wet?
Do you see happiness as a choice or am I all wet?
Hi BTSO,
To your first question IMO, NO. Power, choice and free will does not play a role in depression. Unfortunately that is a genetically induced chemical imbalance.
Happiness, Yes it is a choice --That responsibility can not be placed in the hands of something or someone else. IMO!
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