MidnightBlue

Hi, all.

I generally prefer to stay away from these discussions because it makes me kind of sad, that persuing one and the same goal we are getting involved in this opposition "AA vs...".

I will just share my point of view, how I see and feel it, never meaning to offend anyone.

First of all, the original question of the thread was:


Can you quit drinking without AA?

I am curious to know if there are people that considered themselves addicted to alcohol and who have quit for more than 1 year without AA; 12 steps or rehab? In other words, has anyone just quit because they were ready and used a common sense approach that alcohol was causing problems in their lives and it was time to abstain.

To me, the question is very simple: hey, 1 year+ sober folks who did it without AA, 12 steps and rehab, if you exist on this planet - respond!

So, those who did it, they will respond, share their experience and how they did it. And, logically, those who did not, just would say "Ok, not my case. I'll pass by". End of story?

No, not the end, it turns out...


Ok. My experience. I've passed my 1 year milestone yesterday. I don't know how my problem would be classified scientifically - alcoholism, problem drinking, loving wine too much. etc. But at some point I realized that I couldn't moderate my drinking, I started to have black outs, it really became a problem for me. So, I decided to stop. I made it with the help of SR and my own will power. During this year I worked on improving my life in every aspect to support, back up and strengthen my sobriety.



Exatcly my thoughts, actually...

And more my experience...

I love this place, I love SR, I respect all the members here, but from time to time I do feel some AA members being a little bit aggressive.

Like when I open a thread asking for personal insight and experience, or sometimes just venting out, and there always will be an answer like "Are you doing steps?". "My sponsor says this...", "Big Book says that...", "Before I started my program I was such a..my ego....". And sometimes I feel like a person doesn't really care for me and want to help, but just promoting AA citing BB quotes, sometimes without rhyme or reason. There's no universal answer to all the problems a person experiences, regardless of how great this or that program is.

I remember one thread which was about "What's your favourite non-alco drink now?". Among all Pepsi Light, tea, cacao, etc. there was an answer "AA Coffee". I was really tempted to ask the person: "Is it a new brand? What was the point to add this "AA" adjunct here?". It reminded me of some professional athlets who are bounded by contract terms to praise their sponsor at every corner and when they are asked what was their key to their success, answer something like "I worked hard, and thanks Company A for great shoes. I woke up at 4.30 a.m. every day, and thanks Company B for great food supplements, etc". I mean nobody said "AVRT coffee, SMART coffee, my-own-crazy-quilt-program coffee.

When I see and "hear" this I feel like someone is pushing this into me. And when someone is selling me this so hard, it makes me say "Whoa. Whoa. Hold on.". When someone claims that there's only one way to do something, it makes me take a defensive stance apriori, because it's just not true.

"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist".

I think the mankind had enough Crusades over which religion is better and more "proper" to follow the same path in seeking recovery...


I do wish everyone to be happy on their sobriety journey, whatever program we choose to follow.


My best wishes to all)

Joe Nerv

In response to midnight blues well stated response... The flip side also exists, and that's when I get sad. And concerned.

Part of my deleted post had to do with the idea that we are all on the same team, yet often don't act it. Supposedly all we really want to do is stay clean and sober... And help others do the same. I try real hard to keep things to my experience, but get stuck when I see a post that I consider harmful. A fer instance is right here with the 75% thing. Seems harmless enough, but I read some ill intent in that post, and while I reserve the right to be wrong about that, I do believe posting that very questionable info is dangerous to newcomers.

Some of us couldn't recover without the help of some program. To state as a fact that 75% do, could easily lead someone to believe that if they can't, then they're really messed up, as that's the way most people do find success. If that were true, I doubt AA, or any other program would exist.

I do my best here to stay open minded, and struggle sometimes with the idea of having to be right. I try also to admit when I'm wrong. Some people here can't even seem to respect that. Anyhow, I wish us all well. And I go back to my original statement. Some people get sober without AA. I couldn't. And I really need to get back to my real job now. As I'm getting paid to do that, not this.

ru12

To the original poster, it seems that the vast majority of people recover from alcoholism without any treatment whatsoever. Be that AA, SMART, RR, talk therapy or posting here.

I'm not certain why certain individuals want to argue that point.

I get it. Some people need AA. Great. Most don't. Again, great.

Hawkeye13

I wish everyone continued and happy sobriety no matter how they get there

Carlotta

That!!!

BackToSquareOne

If you read EndGames post on this thread the success rates are about the same.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ess-rates.html

awuh1

The original question was “can you quit drinking without AA”. That’s straight forward enough. It’s a legitimate question. In fact it’s a good question.

The heart of the question involves quitting drinking. Unfortunately a study was sited to support the proposition that most ‘alcoholics’ quit on their own. The study was not confined to people who had lost the ability to control their drinking. In fact, more than half of the so called ‘alcoholics’ who successfully managed their drinking in the study did so by continuing to drink!

If you have not lost the power to control your drinking, and it’s causing problems, then stop or moderate. Do it on your own, without assistance, just like the people in the study. No problem.

But that’s not the sort of people who are reading and posting to SR asking for help IMO. To imply (as in the study threshold sited) that most alcoholics can manage their drinking by using moderation is dangerous, at best.

MidnightBlue

Here we go again...

My experience:

- Couldn't moderate my drinking;
- Post on SR;
- Did it without AA.

wheresthefun

Yes!

(I'm bad.)

IWLSAST

What the heck...let me spin some stats that only belong to me:

Quit for 11.5 years...relapsed
Quit for 16 months...relapsed
Quit for 15 months...relapsed

So I am either over, or under qualified to answer the original question.

That makes me 0 for three. Or in baseball terms, batting zero.

Decided to try AA, found after fighting it for many years that it is working for me, and along with SR, helping me to build a sober foundation. If this new foundation works for the rest of my life, I will then be 1 for four...or batting .250 in baseball terms

Learn to finally hit a home run and bat .250 in Major League Baseball and you will have earned a mullti-millionaire's contract for your services.

Luv Ya, MB, we may slightly disagree here...

From my view, the extremist's are out there both bashing and pumping AA...but, I do agree, at times just pushing agenda's and not helping....

awuh1

I have no trouble with the fact that we see things differently MidnightBlue. None at all.

As far as I can tell you are not suggesting moderation for alcoholics. Neither are you implying that most alcoholics can or should be able to quit without assistance (as your own experience involves help through SR).

Yes, I will speak up and disagree if I feel that something potentially harmful is being put forward. I hope you do also…

even if I disagree.

IWLSAT, I’m not sure if there is enough space for all the zero’s in my bating (sobriety) average (both in and out of AA) but I’m grateful for the many years I now have.

Itchy

Three years sober, no relapses, done for life. Statistically where would I fit in. Is SR a program? Been here three years sober. Using other helps? I could not get a day sober in the last two years of my addiction and my health started showing signs of trouble. I was sick, tired, and frightened. I knew if I could just detox and get the alcohol out of my system safely, I would take that head start on recovery and run with it, never to drink and find myself helpless again. So I signed into a seven day hospital detox and follow on 28 day rehab. Was that a program? I quit rehab because they forced me to go to a meeting that absolutely did not apply to me, a combined AA and NA meeting. I did not quit because of the meeting but because I was not allowed to stay at the dorm while they went because they did not have the personnel to have someone stay with me and babysit. I quit drinking voluntarily, had a home, and was just taking up a space a homeless drunk might need so I left. But I joined SR because my PAWS was severe and scared me. I had my doc but needed some local and online real people to let me know they had the same things. Even though I had my docs doing tests and was doing fine my mind was all over the place, I couldn't sleep, the shakes stayed for two weeks after detox, and my short term memory and focus went out the window! I used local counseling and needed more. I was a counselor at a major university for a couple of years and was trained in RET which is where all the secular top three recovery methodologies took their basics from in behavior modification. But I needed local non professional people who could tell me yes, they went through this or that and it eased up eventually. Some nice folks here told me I might find that in AA but that I should find the right group for me by going to several. I did. For three months I was there for both meetings every week. I did not need more, I lived my life as a military straight shooter, an ethical code of my own that was not situational, nor affected by my drinking. My behaviors hurt only me. My kids were grown, and I never blacked out. I did not need the step work but admired the self improvement and life lessons they offer. Yes I read the BB, as well as RR, and the best online writing IMHO for me, the SMART resources online in pdfs. I thought I might want a sponsor but then realized I was going to discontinue AA as soon as my recovery stabilized. I stayed for three months and got much more than I expected out of it. I was already three weeks sober when I joined SR and another week sober when I went to my first voluntary AA meeting. I continued here because my PAWS still gave me pause for about a year. Then after two years I really felt recovered, and continued to improve to now, a few weeks past three years.

All that to ask this of the arguers. Am I statistically one who quit on my own because I did not come here, do AA, or any other program in any book except for one meeting I was forced to attend which I rejected at the time before I took my last drink?

But then again I did not quit on my own did I? I had lots of drugs and was monitored for seven days in a hospital. But I signed up to quit maybe that makes me a no program? Nahhh. I needed help. Like a majority of people who come here for support.

So some folks would say I will relapse one day without their voice recognition training, spiritual guidance, ongoing steps or meetings. Some I am afraid to say might even hope for it because they would feel validated. I feel sorrier for anybody that would derive satisfaction from saying I told you so, than those who can't stop drinking. I enjoyed some of each program myself.

I saw the escape clause of defending "valid" statistics. From my three years here, I have seen that the single most hurtful condition newly admitted alcoholics or whatever term you prefer for those of us addicted to alcohol physically and/or emotionally is the fear of someone/anyone finding out. Some folks need face to face but never get sober out of fear of losing some one thing or everything if that some one or boss/family/friends/neighbors, you name it, ever found out they were weak/alcoholic/addicted/had the "disease"/ thus unreliable, untrustworthy, undeserving of love.

Some can do it alone. They aren't here. Anonymous or not, helping others or getting help themselves, every person here on SR is getting support. They are not going it alone.

Thank goodness!

ru12

Awuh1,

It is good to speak your mind. I too will when I see AA dogma being spouted as fact.

Many people recover from alcohol dependency without AA. Some even learn to moderate their drinking. Regardless of AA says about that possibility, it happens. We can dispute the frequency of it, but it indeed is achieved by some. It is what Harm Reduction is all about. Reducing harms.

You certainly are allowed your own opinions, but you are NOT entitled to your own facts.

I personally don't think moderation is a good idea for alcoholics. I think that an alcoholic is safer to abstain. But I don't pretend to know if someone else can do it or not. I choose not to play with alcohol anymore.

And for the record I didn't do it alone. I was lucky to find this place.

awuh1

What fact am I not entitled to ru12? I would appreciate specifics rather than a vague generalization. If I am wrong I have no trouble admitting it. The truth does not exist IN me. It's something I seek. I'm quite willing to change my views. It's just part of becoming a better person. Please enlighten me.

jaynie04

Last night I commented on a particular drug for sleep that I had become addicted to over the course of 20 years. Someone new to sobriety was asking about experiences and I offered mine, that I had found it to be a very addictive drug and hard to quit.

I felt blindsided when a poster came in and stated that they took that drug and that they considered themselves sober. That wasn't the discussion, at all. It never occurred to me that anyone would see it as a judgement against "their sobriety". I do feel that there is a time and a place and a level of appropriateness in discussing methodologies.

When I feel that someone is placing valuation on the quality of someone else's sobriety I find it highly agitating. Newcomers come here looking for help and sometimes get thrown onto the battlefield.

There was a thread that was going when I got here a few months ago. It was a discussion about the quality of someone's sobriety, going as far as to say "I am driving a Maybach, and you are driving a Yugo".

Really? All I could think was that anytime I have passed someone driving a Maybach they didn't have to tell me what they were driving.

ru12

Aw, You seem to be saying as a fact that no alcoholic in the entirety of human history has ever learn to moderate. I'm saying that that isn't a fact but an opinion. How say you?

Aiko

I quitted on my own... 20/02/2012
I new was going to worse and worse.
and was drinking alone everyday any chance... any time...

Decided I had to quit or else!!!


My friends insist I need to get help
but
I think I can do it by myself + my antidepressants
If I go back to the state I was then I will go to AA.

And my family does not even know... and never will.
I protect them so much they do not even know me, sad.

And am still fighting it.
I fell a few times but got up again and start again.
this is not right...
the on and off thing does not work but makes more damage.

IF YOU FIND IT HARD,
DO GET HELP!!!
IS THERE FOR YOU!!!

CousinA

There's a sign at the Perry Street meeting in NYC that says "There is no wrong way to get sober".

-allan

jaynie04

When I read the book Dry I kept thinking that was the meeting he went to.

Not breaking anyone's anonymity just had that type of neighborhoody feeling.

Carlotta

Is it still at the same location? I used to catch meetings there when I dogsat for my friends. It would get awfully crowded there sometimes but I loved the diversity, there were so many interesting characters.