Diary of a Mad Cow - Sober Edition
Woe is Moo.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,746
Wrath of Cow
Recently I talking to addict friend about blame and forgiveness. Mainstream paradigm is that you must find way to forgive other for YOU OWN sake. If not, then resentment and blame eat you alive, like peckish zombie. Or, like Miley Cyrus’ tongue, it haunt you every day, making you life miserable.
Personal, Cow not so big on forgiveness. Small incidents is dismissed, of course, but for knock-out punches and life-threatening wound, I only forgive when forgiveness warranted. For me, true forgiveness must be sought and come about through deeper understanding/communication and is genuine release of discord between parties involve. No way does I think everything and everyone earn or deserve forgiveness.
Now before you start thinking is phonebook size “Wrath of Cow” list, is really only couple people in all my years I not forgive. First is emotional abusive liar ex-boyfriend who too self-involve to care about my forgiveness anyway. Second is best friend who start sleeping with this very same ex soon after we break up. She around for entire 10 years of our relationship and knew he was love of my life. This after she listen to all our intimate detail over years and counsel me to break up with him! Their tryst very short lived and she tell mutual friend it worst mistake of her life. I run into her years later and she apologize to me. I say thank you for apology and was pleasant to her, but I make no overture to reconnect, because although I not wish for her to feel bad anymore, truth was, I not forgive her.
And, of course, I never forgive my papa. Because I blame him for my addictions. What?! NO! Hold the horses! Yes, I know, to blame others for our addiction is other thing we not suppose to do! But in truth, when come to my life-long chain of addictions, Cow has no problem throwing some blame around. Yeah, that right! I give nice liberal sprinkle of blame over my parents, and dash or two over other family and adults who never steps in to help me when I very young and in obvious distress. I mostly blame my molester papa who put me on dark path that take me on 40-year detour of suffering and derail me from what could has been much better life. I never forgive him, nor has he ever seek my forgiveness (so it work out!). Rest of them, I forgive, because I come to better understanding of fears and paralysis they maybe have about intervening.
Lot of people think harboring blame and unforgivings mean my heart is tiny shrivel piece of coal! That weight of this is crushing my soul and making impossible for me to be free and move forward! That this give these people unhealthy power over me! Mmm, no. Is just reality of those relationships, yes? Is okay. Just because I not overflowing with forgiveness for everyone does no mean I filled with poison and hatred and bitterness. And just because I toss some blame on others for my spiral into addiction, does not mean I not thoroughly understand that whoever did whatever whenever, it 100% my responsibility now.
.
Recently I talking to addict friend about blame and forgiveness. Mainstream paradigm is that you must find way to forgive other for YOU OWN sake. If not, then resentment and blame eat you alive, like peckish zombie. Or, like Miley Cyrus’ tongue, it haunt you every day, making you life miserable.
Personal, Cow not so big on forgiveness. Small incidents is dismissed, of course, but for knock-out punches and life-threatening wound, I only forgive when forgiveness warranted. For me, true forgiveness must be sought and come about through deeper understanding/communication and is genuine release of discord between parties involve. No way does I think everything and everyone earn or deserve forgiveness.
Now before you start thinking is phonebook size “Wrath of Cow” list, is really only couple people in all my years I not forgive. First is emotional abusive liar ex-boyfriend who too self-involve to care about my forgiveness anyway. Second is best friend who start sleeping with this very same ex soon after we break up. She around for entire 10 years of our relationship and knew he was love of my life. This after she listen to all our intimate detail over years and counsel me to break up with him! Their tryst very short lived and she tell mutual friend it worst mistake of her life. I run into her years later and she apologize to me. I say thank you for apology and was pleasant to her, but I make no overture to reconnect, because although I not wish for her to feel bad anymore, truth was, I not forgive her.
And, of course, I never forgive my papa. Because I blame him for my addictions. What?! NO! Hold the horses! Yes, I know, to blame others for our addiction is other thing we not suppose to do! But in truth, when come to my life-long chain of addictions, Cow has no problem throwing some blame around. Yeah, that right! I give nice liberal sprinkle of blame over my parents, and dash or two over other family and adults who never steps in to help me when I very young and in obvious distress. I mostly blame my molester papa who put me on dark path that take me on 40-year detour of suffering and derail me from what could has been much better life. I never forgive him, nor has he ever seek my forgiveness (so it work out!). Rest of them, I forgive, because I come to better understanding of fears and paralysis they maybe have about intervening.
Lot of people think harboring blame and unforgivings mean my heart is tiny shrivel piece of coal! That weight of this is crushing my soul and making impossible for me to be free and move forward! That this give these people unhealthy power over me! Mmm, no. Is just reality of those relationships, yes? Is okay. Just because I not overflowing with forgiveness for everyone does no mean I filled with poison and hatred and bitterness. And just because I toss some blame on others for my spiral into addiction, does not mean I not thoroughly understand that whoever did whatever whenever, it 100% my responsibility now.
.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 332
Cow,
I've been reading your posts forever and I just really had to respond to this one. I just really agree 100% with you on this. I really really hate the whole forgiveness movement. I hate certain people and will never forgive them for sh*t they've done. They have done nothing to deserve my forgiveness and so I won't give it. Does that make me miserable or keep me awake at night? No! Is my current sh*t mine to own? Yes!
I so get you on this.
June
I've been reading your posts forever and I just really had to respond to this one. I just really agree 100% with you on this. I really really hate the whole forgiveness movement. I hate certain people and will never forgive them for sh*t they've done. They have done nothing to deserve my forgiveness and so I won't give it. Does that make me miserable or keep me awake at night? No! Is my current sh*t mine to own? Yes!
I so get you on this.
June
Sober since March 21, 2013
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 262
HI Cow!
Your posts are always so honest and thought provoking.
We are all walking around with a mind full of recent and past resentments.
Some people you can see it in their eyes and actions. Others are much better at hiding their emotional wounds.
p.s. I'm glad Teddy got his job back at the Tasty-Q, even if it doesn't look like he is going to get laid anytime soon.
Your posts are always so honest and thought provoking.
We are all walking around with a mind full of recent and past resentments.
Some people you can see it in their eyes and actions. Others are much better at hiding their emotional wounds.
p.s. I'm glad Teddy got his job back at the Tasty-Q, even if it doesn't look like he is going to get laid anytime soon.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 705
I agree with you on this one.
Forgive the person who's actions forever changed and ruined your life? SURE, they say in 12 Step-land. Just let it go, drop it, walk away. It's no longer important, doesn't have any bearing on what's happening today, right? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Of COURSE it has everything to do with where we are today. The things that we have learned and experienced have shaped us into the person that we have become. Just as our education has prepared us to perform correctly in the jobs that we do, the things done to us by others, the degrading, immoral, unfair, awful things that we were pushed into experiencing by the terrible actions of others, have prepared and molded our fragile psyches into the twisted shapes that have helped us to cope with life, each in our own, usually very unhealthy ways.
But you're right Cow, holding on to these morsels of poisonous apple that fester within us can't be healthy. We have to find some way to process them, digest them so that they can be psychologically flushed away. Is forgiveness the only way? I guess I've found, after struggling with this issue for years, that holding on to resentments and anger only serve to keep the actions of the abusers front and center in my life. I'm allowing the very same people whose abusive actions helped throw me to the lions to keep locking the cage because every time I feel those old emotions, I hand them the keys! So finally, I took away the power I had given them in the only way that worked. I forgave them. No, I didn't run to them, hugging and gushing through my tears about how all was forgotten. Most of the time, I never spoke to them at all. I just looked at the situation, and found, somewhere in the big sh*t sandwich they had served up, some tiny trace of humanity that might have made them act as they had. If my best friend had betrayed me in the worst way possible, I let my hatred and anger shield fall way just enough to see that somehow she had allowed her own weakness, or fear, or doubt to get in the way of her better judgement. And in that tiny kernal of empathy I found enough forgiveness to allow me to shake it off, process it, and walk away.
I don't know if this helps Cow. This whole recovery thing is never "one size fits all". We each figure out our own path through the dark forest, and in doing so hopefully avoid those big bad wolves that are nipping at our heels. It's only after we are standing in the clearing, blinking in the light, that we can appreciate our own success, how hard won it is, how important to our survival. And how worthwhile it was to give in, just enough, so that we can walk away from all of the destructive anger and resentment that was keeping us back there in the dark.
Forgive the person who's actions forever changed and ruined your life? SURE, they say in 12 Step-land. Just let it go, drop it, walk away. It's no longer important, doesn't have any bearing on what's happening today, right? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Of COURSE it has everything to do with where we are today. The things that we have learned and experienced have shaped us into the person that we have become. Just as our education has prepared us to perform correctly in the jobs that we do, the things done to us by others, the degrading, immoral, unfair, awful things that we were pushed into experiencing by the terrible actions of others, have prepared and molded our fragile psyches into the twisted shapes that have helped us to cope with life, each in our own, usually very unhealthy ways.
But you're right Cow, holding on to these morsels of poisonous apple that fester within us can't be healthy. We have to find some way to process them, digest them so that they can be psychologically flushed away. Is forgiveness the only way? I guess I've found, after struggling with this issue for years, that holding on to resentments and anger only serve to keep the actions of the abusers front and center in my life. I'm allowing the very same people whose abusive actions helped throw me to the lions to keep locking the cage because every time I feel those old emotions, I hand them the keys! So finally, I took away the power I had given them in the only way that worked. I forgave them. No, I didn't run to them, hugging and gushing through my tears about how all was forgotten. Most of the time, I never spoke to them at all. I just looked at the situation, and found, somewhere in the big sh*t sandwich they had served up, some tiny trace of humanity that might have made them act as they had. If my best friend had betrayed me in the worst way possible, I let my hatred and anger shield fall way just enough to see that somehow she had allowed her own weakness, or fear, or doubt to get in the way of her better judgement. And in that tiny kernal of empathy I found enough forgiveness to allow me to shake it off, process it, and walk away.
I don't know if this helps Cow. This whole recovery thing is never "one size fits all". We each figure out our own path through the dark forest, and in doing so hopefully avoid those big bad wolves that are nipping at our heels. It's only after we are standing in the clearing, blinking in the light, that we can appreciate our own success, how hard won it is, how important to our survival. And how worthwhile it was to give in, just enough, so that we can walk away from all of the destructive anger and resentment that was keeping us back there in the dark.
p***enger
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,042
I agree w/Longbeachone, except that I don't think "12-step land" suggests I don't bear a lot of resentments, but I do have a few big old ones, and accumulate little new ones from time to time. I'm trying to do 2 things:
At 10 months sober, I'm nowhere near good at this. I don't think I should be. You're at where you're at in recovery, and for me, part of what I've had to go through and still go through is just allowing myself to feel the anger. It's real and valid.
You say this is not true: If you're really able to keep your anger at those who've harmed you from affecting new relationships, and able to move forward well, more power to you. I think some old traumas of mine did crush my soul & make it impossible for me to move forward, and could still drive me back into my addictions. So I do think about how to forgive.
Forgive the person who's actions forever changed and ruined your life? SURE, they say in 12 Step-land. Just let it go, drop it, walk away. It's no longer important, doesn't have any bearing on what's happening today
- focus not on the resentment and the anger at the person who "caused" the pain, but on how it has shaped me, changed my thinking and behavior, and related to my drinking (either because my drinking contributed to it or resulted from it).
- try to understand the flaws in other people -- the simple humanity-- that contribute to their actions that have harmed me. I do believe that very few people are intentionally evil from the get-go. Most people who do harm are acting out some private psychological distress of their own. And because of the harm I've done to myself and others, I try to forgive others for the harm they've done to me.
At 10 months sober, I'm nowhere near good at this. I don't think I should be. You're at where you're at in recovery, and for me, part of what I've had to go through and still go through is just allowing myself to feel the anger. It's real and valid.
You say this is not true:
That weight of this is crushing my soul and making impossible for me to be free and move forward! That this give these people unhealthy power over me!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 1,344
I am not big on forgives either, not in giving them an certainly not for asking for them. This is just mine erroneous personality.
I read an interesting take on this the other day – the two sides of forgiveness.
One is to give it, that is to let go – I am not carrying this any more. The second is receiving it and you can not receive it without matching remorse. If you receive forgiveness without feeling remorse it will be a hollow gift with no value to you. I think there is some truth there, the notion that we hold any power in holding back forgiveness is false. If we bear a grudge towards someone it is something we have to carry and it will only harm us.
I am not soft as such, I did not visit my father when he was dying or attend his funeral.
But I think I would if that had been today.
I read an interesting take on this the other day – the two sides of forgiveness.
One is to give it, that is to let go – I am not carrying this any more. The second is receiving it and you can not receive it without matching remorse. If you receive forgiveness without feeling remorse it will be a hollow gift with no value to you. I think there is some truth there, the notion that we hold any power in holding back forgiveness is false. If we bear a grudge towards someone it is something we have to carry and it will only harm us.
I am not soft as such, I did not visit my father when he was dying or attend his funeral.
But I think I would if that had been today.
Woe is Moo.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,746
Sorry I not around so much lately, is still that I just not feeling compel to write or says anything really. MamaMoo always tell me, “Cow, if you not has anything to say, then not say anything.” Is good wisdom, no? Unfortunate, now that everybody they own reality show star on youtube, Facebook, the Twitter and such, I think we pretty much gonna has to endure every tiniest notion that occur in everyone’s head until end of freaking time.
I feel sorry for poor alien archeologist who one day gonna has to sift through all this infinite conveyor belt trash heap of trivial soliloquies, eye-rolling affirmations, futile politicizing, unnecessary relationship and dietary over-sharings, plus all other various and sundry stupidities, inanities, and insanities --all just confirming that humans is, indeed, most tedious narcissist species in universe, and aliens was right no to ever contact us!
Okay, has a good evening! Hug and kisses, Cow
.
I feel sorry for poor alien archeologist who one day gonna has to sift through all this infinite conveyor belt trash heap of trivial soliloquies, eye-rolling affirmations, futile politicizing, unnecessary relationship and dietary over-sharings, plus all other various and sundry stupidities, inanities, and insanities --all just confirming that humans is, indeed, most tedious narcissist species in universe, and aliens was right no to ever contact us!
Okay, has a good evening! Hug and kisses, Cow
.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Northeast, US
Posts: 1,052
Originally Posted by Cow 
Sorry I not around so much lately, is still that I just not feeling compel to write or says anything really. MamaMoo always tell me, “Cow, if you not has anything to say, then not say anything.” Is good wisdom, no? Unfortunate, now that everybody they own reality show star on youtube, Facebook, the Twitter and such, I think we pretty much gonna has to endure every tiniest notion that occur in everyone’s head until end of freaking time.
I feel sorry for poor alien archeologist who one day gonna has to sift through all this infinite conveyor belt trash heap of trivial soliloquies, eye-rolling affirmations, futile politicizing, unnecessary relationship and dietary over-sharings, plus all other various and sundry stupidities, inanities, and insanities --all just confirming that humans is, indeed, most tedious narcissist species in universe, and aliens was right no to ever contact us!
Okay, has a good evening! Hug and kisses, Cow
.
I feel sorry for poor alien archeologist who one day gonna has to sift through all this infinite conveyor belt trash heap of trivial soliloquies, eye-rolling affirmations, futile politicizing, unnecessary relationship and dietary over-sharings, plus all other various and sundry stupidities, inanities, and insanities --all just confirming that humans is, indeed, most tedious narcissist species in universe, and aliens was right no to ever contact us!
Okay, has a good evening! Hug and kisses, Cow
.
I think it's far worse than that. If the digital stuff ever stops working there will be literally no record of who we were. Give me a good cave wall painting any day.
Woe is Moo.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,746
Global electronic media wipe would be blessing, Uninvited, because aside from some amazing arts and sciences, I not think very much of human histories is things to be proud for.
Hello D, I sorry to say I not actual doing 'well.' I staying the course booze-wise, but I feel bad physically and in mood. I has been cheaty with the caffeine, because it still give some relief. But that has to stop because it waking the Craken. Right now I trying to avoid imminent realization that I simply gonna feel pretty crappy no matter what I do.
Hello D, I sorry to say I not actual doing 'well.' I staying the course booze-wise, but I feel bad physically and in mood. I has been cheaty with the caffeine, because it still give some relief. But that has to stop because it waking the Craken. Right now I trying to avoid imminent realization that I simply gonna feel pretty crappy no matter what I do.
p***enger
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,042
Cow, Dee always speaks the truth. You will feel pretty crappy in early sobriety -- most of us did, I think. In time, you may feel pretty crappy sometimes, and sometimes not so much. In more time, if you also have a bit of luck, and work at it, the not so crappy may outweigh the crappy. (Since crap seems to be an allowed SR word.)
Drinking brings certain crap, all the time. I'm taking the odds sobriety's offering.
Drinking brings certain crap, all the time. I'm taking the odds sobriety's offering.
Woe is Moo.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,746
I know I has to accept I never gonna feel like normal healthy person or spring chicken or such. But let me make straight, although yes, sometime I feel like, hey, what is point, I feel crappy either way, so why not just use. No. That ********. Is NOTHING more crappy feeling than being addict. Sure, maybe you more distracted from how crappy you feel because you busy with you addiction ********, but, trust me, you still feeling crappier in every possible aspect of you life underneath that distraction.
Right now, I facing truth of where I am, right now, in this world. Is not pretty. Why should it be, after so much abuses I has endure. But at least it real. It reality of me, right now, in this world.
Right now, I facing truth of where I am, right now, in this world. Is not pretty. Why should it be, after so much abuses I has endure. But at least it real. It reality of me, right now, in this world.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 8,326
Well said, Cow. For me, it got better over time. I'm never going to be tip top happy happy. But I do have peace and a level of contentment in my life today. that's huge for me from where I was.
love from Lenina
love from Lenina
Woe is Moo.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,746
Out of the Matrix, Into Fires of Mt. Doom
Remember in “Matrix,” was that one guy who choose to go back into matrix, even though he know it empty and fake, but still he prefers this to enduring miserable reality. Gotta admit, it tempting! Sometimes is hard to believe real sober world gonna turn out better than matrix of addiction, because times is feeling so rough. I still choosing red pill, but can be difficult choice. Yes, choices is difficult.
After my OD, back when I having seizures, alone, in seedy trailer, unable to stand up much and wondering if my brain ever gonna function again --I honestly not know how I survive these years. But I did. Because I have no choice. If I stay sober now, it gonna be because I choose to. Hard Truth: CHOOSING to endure something painful is lot tougher than HAVING to endure it.
Confucius say: "The way out is through the door. Why is it no one will use this method." Confucius must not have been addict. I sure we all wish we have unwavering discipline of Confucius, but to be fair, he meditate for like 70 freaking years or something to achieve this wisdoms.
That why I prefer “Lord of Rings,” for addiction mythology inspiration. Ring is symbol of addiction. How easy it is for even good man to fall, even when is known evil it will bring. And journey to Mordor is hard fought one of courage, fortitude, and couple of absurd subplots. Mental journey equally tough --it literal tear Gollum in two. Even pure soul such as Frodo not quite make it at end, he too succumb. But still, give him props, that boy made hell of an effort and had just been slime by big fat lady spider. Sam save the day for Frodo. I not have a Sam in my life. But if I did, maybe we have conversations like this:
Remember in “Matrix,” was that one guy who choose to go back into matrix, even though he know it empty and fake, but still he prefers this to enduring miserable reality. Gotta admit, it tempting! Sometimes is hard to believe real sober world gonna turn out better than matrix of addiction, because times is feeling so rough. I still choosing red pill, but can be difficult choice. Yes, choices is difficult.
After my OD, back when I having seizures, alone, in seedy trailer, unable to stand up much and wondering if my brain ever gonna function again --I honestly not know how I survive these years. But I did. Because I have no choice. If I stay sober now, it gonna be because I choose to. Hard Truth: CHOOSING to endure something painful is lot tougher than HAVING to endure it.
Confucius say: "The way out is through the door. Why is it no one will use this method." Confucius must not have been addict. I sure we all wish we have unwavering discipline of Confucius, but to be fair, he meditate for like 70 freaking years or something to achieve this wisdoms.
That why I prefer “Lord of Rings,” for addiction mythology inspiration. Ring is symbol of addiction. How easy it is for even good man to fall, even when is known evil it will bring. And journey to Mordor is hard fought one of courage, fortitude, and couple of absurd subplots. Mental journey equally tough --it literal tear Gollum in two. Even pure soul such as Frodo not quite make it at end, he too succumb. But still, give him props, that boy made hell of an effort and had just been slime by big fat lady spider. Sam save the day for Frodo. I not have a Sam in my life. But if I did, maybe we have conversations like this:
Cow: I growing weary. I can no do this, Sam.
Sam: I know, Cow. It's all wrong. By rights you shouldn't even be here. But you are. It's like in the great stories, Cow. The ones that really mattered. Fraught with darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't even want to know the end, because how could the end be happy, when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. A new day will come. And when the sun shines, it will shine out the clearer. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, but they didn't. They kept going, because they were holding on to something, Cow.
Cow: ...What is I holding onto, Sam?
Sam: That there's something good left in this world for you, Cow, and it's worth fighting for.
Cow: You right, Sam, now carries my ass up this f*cking mountain!
Sam: I know, Cow. It's all wrong. By rights you shouldn't even be here. But you are. It's like in the great stories, Cow. The ones that really mattered. Fraught with darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't even want to know the end, because how could the end be happy, when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. A new day will come. And when the sun shines, it will shine out the clearer. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, but they didn't. They kept going, because they were holding on to something, Cow.
Cow: ...What is I holding onto, Sam?
Sam: That there's something good left in this world for you, Cow, and it's worth fighting for.
Cow: You right, Sam, now carries my ass up this f*cking mountain!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,426
Hi Cow;
I'm glad you are choosing sobriety.
Maybe you don't want to go up the mountain.
(Mt. Doom is so unpleasant this time of year anyway what with that Death Zone and that nosy neighbor in that tower and all)
Maybe you want to go down the mountain and get back to where things are green and growing and there are horny toads and forests and time to rest. I found that the first year or so of not drinking just called for a lot of rest and patience on my part.
Peace kind of ebbs in fits and starts--plenty of frenetic and frought moments between but more and more those began easing over time.
I'm glad you are choosing sobriety.
Maybe you don't want to go up the mountain.
(Mt. Doom is so unpleasant this time of year anyway what with that Death Zone and that nosy neighbor in that tower and all)
Maybe you want to go down the mountain and get back to where things are green and growing and there are horny toads and forests and time to rest. I found that the first year or so of not drinking just called for a lot of rest and patience on my part.
Peace kind of ebbs in fits and starts--plenty of frenetic and frought moments between but more and more those began easing over time.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 4,225
Cow, glad you are giving life outside the Death Zone a shot.
Right now, I facing truth of where I am, right now, in this world. Is not pretty. Why should it be, after so much abuses I has endure. But at least it real. It reality of me, right now, in this world. The truth is hard sometimes, Cow...you and others here have been through a lot. Facing some things sober is very scary, gut wrenching. The 'reality of you', still has a lot to give, even though you've lost a lot (and had terrible things happen to you).
I know you have mentioned being worried about losing your creativity...I think it is still there....your mind is dealing with a lot of stuff at the moment.give it time. I actually think my creativity is a lot better sober....or at least it seems to take less time to achieve a good result. I actually found some things I thought were great when I was drinking, actually look like poo now I am sober!
Originally Posted by Cow
Right now, I facing truth of where I am, right now, in this world. Is not pretty. Why should it be, after so much abuses I has endure. But at least it real. It reality of me, right now, in this world.
I know you have mentioned being worried about losing your creativity...I think it is still there....your mind is dealing with a lot of stuff at the moment.give it time. I actually think my creativity is a lot better sober....or at least it seems to take less time to achieve a good result. I actually found some things I thought were great when I was drinking, actually look like poo now I am sober!
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
