So two alcoholics walk into a relationship...
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Essex
Posts: 411
Great topic, thanks for posting.
Definitely agree with the odds are good bit :-)
I got into a relationship when I was previously two years sober, with a fellow AA, who had at that time 10 years sober, and we were together 7 years. The gap in sober time was difficult to negotiate at times, and the biggest mistake we made was trying to have one big sobriety, together. Not quite velcro couple, but pretty dependent nonetheless. His commitment to AA was always stronger than mine, and over time, my commitment to AA on my own behalf, declined. That is not a given however, but happened because of lack of commitment to my own recovery. It also would have benefited both of us to go to Al-Anon.
From experience, think the advice that not getting into a relationship for the first two years is sound; depending on our relationship history (mine is very much 'let me loose myself in you, and relinquish all responsibility for myself!') I would endorse that two years, if not a little longer, because my experience on reflection is that I would have benefited more from focusing on my recovery, as my attention and energy got distracted into a relationship I wasn't entirely happy with, and neither was he. We sure tried though! ;-)
Having said all that, during that sober time, got to do some things that genuinely and honestly, I probably would not have done without his encouragement - buying a property which has left me in a great financial position, travelling internationally, and ending up, if not a relationship, with a really very good friend, which is something I can't say of any other relationship I have had. Those things aren't peculiar to AA though, just indicative of someone who is living their life, and encouraged me to do the same.
As others have said, AA or not, it really depends on the two people involved, and personally, on how well I am managing (or not) the inclination to co-dependency, which I've since found can happen with a fellow AA or without.
Definitely agree with the odds are good bit :-)
I got into a relationship when I was previously two years sober, with a fellow AA, who had at that time 10 years sober, and we were together 7 years. The gap in sober time was difficult to negotiate at times, and the biggest mistake we made was trying to have one big sobriety, together. Not quite velcro couple, but pretty dependent nonetheless. His commitment to AA was always stronger than mine, and over time, my commitment to AA on my own behalf, declined. That is not a given however, but happened because of lack of commitment to my own recovery. It also would have benefited both of us to go to Al-Anon.
From experience, think the advice that not getting into a relationship for the first two years is sound; depending on our relationship history (mine is very much 'let me loose myself in you, and relinquish all responsibility for myself!') I would endorse that two years, if not a little longer, because my experience on reflection is that I would have benefited more from focusing on my recovery, as my attention and energy got distracted into a relationship I wasn't entirely happy with, and neither was he. We sure tried though! ;-)
Having said all that, during that sober time, got to do some things that genuinely and honestly, I probably would not have done without his encouragement - buying a property which has left me in a great financial position, travelling internationally, and ending up, if not a relationship, with a really very good friend, which is something I can't say of any other relationship I have had. Those things aren't peculiar to AA though, just indicative of someone who is living their life, and encouraged me to do the same.
As others have said, AA or not, it really depends on the two people involved, and personally, on how well I am managing (or not) the inclination to co-dependency, which I've since found can happen with a fellow AA or without.
Psalm 118:24
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ILLINOIS
Posts: 15,203
Alcohol is but a symptom.
I came into aa a drinken sob. Afterwards, I had to work on the sob.
Often we find the only common denominator was the drinking.
Far too often after sobering up in a relationship we are not always on the same course as a couple pretty much the same as the public at large
I came into aa a drinken sob. Afterwards, I had to work on the sob.
Often we find the only common denominator was the drinking.
Far too often after sobering up in a relationship we are not always on the same course as a couple pretty much the same as the public at large
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 557
I married a man I met in AA, and it seems to work for us (although having never been married before, I don't have anything to compare it to!). Dating was the last thing on my mind when I entered AA, and I NEVER would have considered dating an alcoholic, let alone an alcoholic and drug addict who was a chronic relapser, stuck in his addiction for more than 20 years, who was 19 years older than me, unemployed (oh, forgive me, "self-employed"), and living with his parents (oh, forgive me, "taking care of his parents").
My pastor and long-time mentor - like a Dad to me - was the one who got me into AA, so you can imagine his fury when I show up on his doorstep one night at 24 years old with only 3 months of sobriety proclaiming my undying love to a 43 year old alcoholic. Needless to say, the word "predator" came up a lot!
Our timing was horrible. I thought he had been sober for a while, but he was such a chronic relapser, that he only had a couple weeks more than me. I hadn't worked the steps (but he had just finished them), I had drifted away from my sponsor after our 90 day "temporary sponsor" agreement. Entering into a relationship was foolhardy, and if I had a sponsor I'm sure she would have said so. I got so distracted by our relationship that I put my personal growth on the back burner and didn't finish the steps until I was 5 years sober and on the verge of relapse.
However, my husband is an example of a miracle. He is what AA is all about. He was hopeless, and now he is a completely different person. I didn't know him when I was drinking, but I am always hearing from his old friends that he is a changed person. They attribute it to me, but that's the furthest thing from the truth - it was all God. He is generous, compassionate, loving, and fully committed to sobriety, our marriage, and our kids. More important than a common bond in AA is our common faith. That's what holds us together, not AA.
Over the last couple of years I've come to realize that he's really the one who got the raw end of the deal (if there is a raw end). Of the two of us, everyone would have predicted he'd be the one with "issues". But I'm the one that struggles - depression, compulsive behaviors, fear of relapse.
Sure, we still fight. We both have insecurities. We could both be more patient. We disagree about the kids. But that's all normal marriage stuff I think. Oh, and that pastor loves my husband now. He actually married us! And whenever I struggle, he is always the first to remind me how lucky I am to have a husband who loves me so much.
My pastor and long-time mentor - like a Dad to me - was the one who got me into AA, so you can imagine his fury when I show up on his doorstep one night at 24 years old with only 3 months of sobriety proclaiming my undying love to a 43 year old alcoholic. Needless to say, the word "predator" came up a lot!
Our timing was horrible. I thought he had been sober for a while, but he was such a chronic relapser, that he only had a couple weeks more than me. I hadn't worked the steps (but he had just finished them), I had drifted away from my sponsor after our 90 day "temporary sponsor" agreement. Entering into a relationship was foolhardy, and if I had a sponsor I'm sure she would have said so. I got so distracted by our relationship that I put my personal growth on the back burner and didn't finish the steps until I was 5 years sober and on the verge of relapse.
However, my husband is an example of a miracle. He is what AA is all about. He was hopeless, and now he is a completely different person. I didn't know him when I was drinking, but I am always hearing from his old friends that he is a changed person. They attribute it to me, but that's the furthest thing from the truth - it was all God. He is generous, compassionate, loving, and fully committed to sobriety, our marriage, and our kids. More important than a common bond in AA is our common faith. That's what holds us together, not AA.
Over the last couple of years I've come to realize that he's really the one who got the raw end of the deal (if there is a raw end). Of the two of us, everyone would have predicted he'd be the one with "issues". But I'm the one that struggles - depression, compulsive behaviors, fear of relapse.
Sure, we still fight. We both have insecurities. We could both be more patient. We disagree about the kids. But that's all normal marriage stuff I think. Oh, and that pastor loves my husband now. He actually married us! And whenever I struggle, he is always the first to remind me how lucky I am to have a husband who loves me so much.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Auckland, New Zealand (Aotearoa)
Posts: 339
I like how youre putting a little humour into this situation. "do two dunks make a right" laughed so hard on that one. Maybe youre seeing some of the characteristics that caused them to self-medicate in the first place?
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 115
I am close to 7 months and have just started flirting with the idea that at some stage in the not too distance future I will start dating again. And I think that's a good thing, because recovery is about living. and a big part of life is about relationships. But I am not in a mad rush.
We all go a bit bat@#$1 at the start of a relationship, after all studies have shown falling in love induces similar changes in our brain that drugs do - masses of dopamine that eventually go away to normality.
Some of the posts above have made me chuckle. Love makes us all a bit crazy. I am envisioning that when I do start dating again it may make me a bit stressed, and reading what everyone has posted above has reinforced that, good to be prepared I say
We all go a bit bat@#$1 at the start of a relationship, after all studies have shown falling in love induces similar changes in our brain that drugs do - masses of dopamine that eventually go away to normality.
Some of the posts above have made me chuckle. Love makes us all a bit crazy. I am envisioning that when I do start dating again it may make me a bit stressed, and reading what everyone has posted above has reinforced that, good to be prepared I say
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,778
Originally Posted by Ptcapote 
Great post, Gracie, thank you! I also have a velcro couple in one of my meetings and I (very unspiritually) want to scream, "Get a room already!!" when they're frolicking during meetings.
But, yes, your point is a good one. The "successful" AA couples I know definitely work their own programs with their own groups of friends and points of support. I think that would kind of be essential as with the two friends I am speaking about in my OP, their sponsors are even now bickering with each other over the advice they're giving to their respective sponsees regarding the relationship. That's just way, WAY, too incestuous for my pea brain to handle. Way too much stress and competing agendas, at least to my mind.
My life was enough of a soap opera when I was drinking, I certainly didn't stop to star in one again...
Anyway, thanks again!
But, yes, your point is a good one. The "successful" AA couples I know definitely work their own programs with their own groups of friends and points of support. I think that would kind of be essential as with the two friends I am speaking about in my OP, their sponsors are even now bickering with each other over the advice they're giving to their respective sponsees regarding the relationship. That's just way, WAY, too incestuous for my pea brain to handle. Way too much stress and competing agendas, at least to my mind.
My life was enough of a soap opera when I was drinking, I certainly didn't stop to star in one again...
Anyway, thanks again!
Relationships can be tough no matter what. I think it all depends on the individuals and how mentally healthy and secure they are in themselves. I'm grateful that I have someone who can understand the shame and pain of addiction. Sometimes when we talk about things we've done we both cringe and sometimes laugh. It feels good to know I'm not being judged.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
Here's a great anecdote: I know two recovering alcoholics who fell quickly in love. They believed it was going to last a long time, they both were squirrely so immediately started couples therapy! Four years later they're married and happy, still going to meetings and the marriage counselor.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
I didn't date my first year and then someone pointed out: having a relationship is like pouring Miracle Grown on your character defects, I learned it's true. In my tenth year I picked a very screwed up recovering alcoholic (he didn't go to meetings because "he is different"!). Worst relationship of my life.
The problem with getting involved with the opposite sex is that it pushes all our buttons. I think we alcoholics feel things much more acutely than most people. Many of us are thin skinned and overly sensitive. And of course we're still self-centered and have distorted notions. You can help yourself enormously by getting a very experienced sponsor and being honest ... this person can help you avoid a lot of common problems like confusing love with need, projecting and falling in love before we really know the other person.
Best of luck!
I learned it's true. In my tenth year I picked a very screwed up recovering alcoholic (he didn't go to meetings because "he is different"!). Worst relationship of my life.The problem with getting involved with the opposite sex is that it pushes all our buttons. I think we alcoholics feel things much more acutely than most people. Many of us are thin skinned and overly sensitive. And of course we're still self-centered and have distorted notions. You can help yourself enormously by getting a very experienced sponsor and being honest ... this person can help you avoid a lot of common problems like confusing love with need, projecting and falling in love before we really know the other person.
Best of luck!
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,785
I think one of the things that hit me was a lead I heard a couple months ago. I do not usually attend this meeting but she is part of my core group of ladies and I went to support her and I had never heard her story.
She said when she hit a year she asked her sponsor what she needs to do now. The answer was "go and live". Now obviously she did not mean leave AA and go do your thing but it really struck me that it was time for me to branch out and do a little living.
My program was solid and I had worked the steps. I was feeling that I wanted something new or more in my life but I was not sure what it was. Well God decided for me. I never expected him to come in to my life, a relationship was not what I thought was my next move but when we least expect it, there it is.
I have not laughed and enjoyed life so much as I have since I have been with him. It is not perfect, nothing is, but we take the time to talk things out and get that honesty on the table and so far that has taken us far. As long as we take that approach I feel we can work through anything that may come along.
She said when she hit a year she asked her sponsor what she needs to do now. The answer was "go and live". Now obviously she did not mean leave AA and go do your thing but it really struck me that it was time for me to branch out and do a little living.
My program was solid and I had worked the steps. I was feeling that I wanted something new or more in my life but I was not sure what it was. Well God decided for me. I never expected him to come in to my life, a relationship was not what I thought was my next move but when we least expect it, there it is.
I have not laughed and enjoyed life so much as I have since I have been with him. It is not perfect, nothing is, but we take the time to talk things out and get that honesty on the table and so far that has taken us far. As long as we take that approach I feel we can work through anything that may come along.
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What I have found being on SR is that drinking and becoming an alcoholic, is frequently the result of trying to cope with issues from the past, which can cause character traits to develop. Stopping drinking doesn't deal with the past issues or the character traits, only therapy can help that. So I don't feel there is a problem with two alcoholics in recovery having a relationship as long as they are both working on whatever led to their drinking in the first place and work on self awareness and self improvement.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 47
I struggle with the dating topic. I'll be a year sober in 2 days but I don't do AA, it's just not for me. The combination of counseling and RR has worked for me. Ever since I made my big plan I have never wavered, and I've been faced with some tough potential drinking situations.
That said, the idea of dating kind of scares me. I know I couldn't date a drunk or heavy drinker, but could I handle someone who is a moderate drinker or drinks on occasion? I don't know. But I also don't want to limit my dating options. I know only I can decide what I'm comfortable with. I don't think there's a clear answer. The only thing I'm clear on is my decision to not drink ever again. So whoever I date has to respect that.
That said, the idea of dating kind of scares me. I know I couldn't date a drunk or heavy drinker, but could I handle someone who is a moderate drinker or drinks on occasion? I don't know. But I also don't want to limit my dating options. I know only I can decide what I'm comfortable with. I don't think there's a clear answer. The only thing I'm clear on is my decision to not drink ever again. So whoever I date has to respect that.
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 47
12 Traditions for Relationships
1 - Our common welfare should come first; a healthy relationship
depends upon unity.
2 - For our family or relationship purpose, there is but one ultimate
authority - a loving God as He may express Himself in our informed
family conscience. Each member is God's trusted servant and no
one governs.
3 - Two or more persons, when gathered together for mutual benefit,
may call themselves a relationship. The only basic requirements for
a good marriage or relationship are a mutual desire to be in the
relationship and a willingness to make the relationship work.
4 - Each partner should be autonomous except in matters affecting
the other partner, the family or society as a whole.
5 - Each marriage or relationship has but one primary purpose - to
serve as an expression of God's Love.
6 - A partner ought not be overly supportive spiritually, emotionally,
or physically to the marriage or relationship, lest problems of ego or
gratification divert us from the primary purpose.
7 - Each partner ought to strive to be fully self-supporting physically,
emotionally, and spiritually.
8 - Our marriage or relationship should remain a forever free, giving
relationship - one to the other. In a healthy relationship we do not
keep score.
9 - A family or relationship should be pliable in its organization but
our group conscience may appoint certain persons to serve various
functions and to be directly responsible to those they serve.
10 - A relationship should avoid heated controversy.
11 - Each partner best conveys his or her beliefs and philosophy by
attraction rather than promotion. Anonymity is a valuable asset to the
marriage or relationship.
12 - SELFLESSNESS is the spiritual foundation of our way of life as
marriage partners or friends, ever reminding us to place principles
before personalities and the main principle in a relationship is
UNSELFISHNESS. Our greatest gift is to be of help to one another
and we can't do that if we are selfish.
1 - Our common welfare should come first; a healthy relationship
depends upon unity.
2 - For our family or relationship purpose, there is but one ultimate
authority - a loving God as He may express Himself in our informed
family conscience. Each member is God's trusted servant and no
one governs.
3 - Two or more persons, when gathered together for mutual benefit,
may call themselves a relationship. The only basic requirements for
a good marriage or relationship are a mutual desire to be in the
relationship and a willingness to make the relationship work.
4 - Each partner should be autonomous except in matters affecting
the other partner, the family or society as a whole.
5 - Each marriage or relationship has but one primary purpose - to
serve as an expression of God's Love.
6 - A partner ought not be overly supportive spiritually, emotionally,
or physically to the marriage or relationship, lest problems of ego or
gratification divert us from the primary purpose.
7 - Each partner ought to strive to be fully self-supporting physically,
emotionally, and spiritually.
8 - Our marriage or relationship should remain a forever free, giving
relationship - one to the other. In a healthy relationship we do not
keep score.
9 - A family or relationship should be pliable in its organization but
our group conscience may appoint certain persons to serve various
functions and to be directly responsible to those they serve.
10 - A relationship should avoid heated controversy.
11 - Each partner best conveys his or her beliefs and philosophy by
attraction rather than promotion. Anonymity is a valuable asset to the
marriage or relationship.
12 - SELFLESSNESS is the spiritual foundation of our way of life as
marriage partners or friends, ever reminding us to place principles
before personalities and the main principle in a relationship is
UNSELFISHNESS. Our greatest gift is to be of help to one another
and we can't do that if we are selfish.
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