BlueSkies1

Ok, this thread is a trigger.
Have said too many times to count to H that he needs to do something about his drinking. Too many times to count. Do you see?
So what exactly do you suggest?
I think most of us in F&F have tried EVERYTHING short of physically tying them up so that they can't touch liquor and then later I imagine getting arrested for doing that, so I don't.
I will try not to feel insulted about this thread.

FireSprite

I am trying & failing. I never post in this forum but I can't help but say you are certainly entitled to your opinions, MMBob, and to me this is simply a boatload of crap & reeks of blame-shifting.

Do you have any experience as a F&F member or are your opinions shaped solely from being an alcoholic? I'm thinking not, otherwise your view might be substantially different.

For you to insinuate that F&F members have the responsibility & control over the A's in our lives is so beyond narrow minded, IMO.

My husband is a fully grown adult man capable of choosing his own direction in life no matter how detrimental I might find that path to be. MY job is to worry about myself & my child & make sure that I don't sacrifice our happiness & health for his. Nothing more than that. The truth is that unless you've been on THIS side of the fence, you have no clue what it is like. No. Clue.

soberhawk

Alcoholism is in all its weakness, struggle a very selfish and self-centered disease. I am not saying it is without pain or denying that some will go all the way and die from it.

But you can not be an alcoholic without being selfish.

Describing what the loved ones should do to help us and in a slightly religious language, that strikes me as sailing close to wind.

soberhawk

It was not my intention to be overly harsh or critical in this thread.

This is complicated – I understand why this subject is sensitive, it is also sensitive to me, I am rather unsure how to wrap my mind around it.

I have been drinking with the sole responsibility of two boys and even though I have been somewhat disciplined in my drinking, I have hurt them – you can not hide such problems even if you try. Your mind and spirit will hover around it – it will be the ghost in the home.

I am also aware of that people can get lost – these things happen, and sometimes forgiveness of ourself and others is the only option.

I still have my sons love and respect that is the unfair kindness of the world that we do not always reap as we saw.

If I try to view this balanced then we need to look at the whole family, there are many victims in this.

When I read threads in the family sections – I am mostly thinking: run away – do not take on this task.

I think it takes a significant amount of emotional integrity to be of any help to an alcoholic, you can not expect this of children and if you demand this of your partner – I am unsure how much partnership is left in the equation.

I hope I have not hurt anyone by being rather harsh in this thread.

BackToSquareOne

This post made me think, Addictions are all selfish in that they have only one desire, to keep their needs met. Can you define the person by the addiction?

soberhawk

I am not saying that addicts are bad persons, and I hope I am not judging.

I do not think I am.

It is more to face reality, people that are giving into an addiction are selfish – the way we interact with the world will be with a lot of focus on our needs and addiction – this is selfishness. We will in the family dynamics be very demanding and be giving very little.

I am not saying that addicts do not have the potential for something else.

I will maybe answer with a question, can you define a person by a core/substance that is hidden and is not expressing itself?

BackToSquareOne

It's a tough question, because a person gets addicted does that make them selfish? Do all addicts share certain traits or can they be as different as night and day? Tough questions to answer with blanket statements. Way too many variables in people.

ru12

Firesprite,

If this thread triggers you then don't read it. You are a fully functioning adult that has complete control of what you read.

If you don't want to help your husband then leave him. Stop complaining about him. Leaving the alcoholic seems to be the most prescribed advice over on the F&F section... One reason I don't often read or post there. Perhaps you can leave us here alone too?

I'm sorry that you are suffering. I'm blessed that my wife isn't alanon. She cared enough to HELP me change. And she got her sober husband back in the process. And for HER help and support I'll be forever greatful.

Mountainmanbob

so there seems to be a common thread here

"one must be willing"

that's so true

after my last visit to see the judge

I think this was at least a small factor for me to become ""willing"

so can we force someone to want to be sober -- no

but I did appreciate the nudge from the judge -- yes in a strange way

not to forget the kick to my rear end by the little MountainLady !

but even those would have mattered not

if I was not "willing" and had an "honest desire to stop drinking"


Mountainman

Mountainmanbob

I'm 100% in agreement with you ru12

my Sponsor after my last booze blow out
recommended to my wife that she go to alanon
she did
and did not relate to their advice given to her regarding me
she thought it a little off the wall especially since they never even met me

the MountainLady has been reaping the rewards for the last 6 years
of a sober man who loves her much
and tries his best to show it each and every day

for we know
a good wife is a gift from the Lord

once a sober man realizes that -- ALL IS GOOD

Mountainman

Fandy

if you have ever read in depth the F&F area, you would not continue this theme.
I also find it disrespectful and very sexist.
you have no right to offer your *advice* to the people who post there, they certainly don't advise you.
hopefully this will be moved to the 12-step section or closed.

Dee74

Last time I looked this forum was open to everyone, and everyone was free to comment.

let remember that and respect it, thanks.
D

ru12

I'm a double winner.

I used to read over in F&F tons until I couldn't stomach it anymore.

I don't see the disrespect or sexism on this thread, but I'm male so I'm probably wrong.

I think anyone can start a thread about almost anything, I'm not sure why you think you should be the arbiter of what is appropriate.

When the alcoholic in your life dies and his family stands idly by as they were taught in alanon... Letting him hit bottom... Well that might change ones opinion about trying to help the alcoholic. And when the person is your father and you are 8, perhaps that would cloud ones objectivity about the benefit of alanon.

Dee74

let's settle this - I'm the arbiter of whats appropriate here.
Please speak to the thread topic, or use your inside voice.

D

ru12

Dee,

Why isn't there a non-12 step/ alanon friends and family section here? No interest perhaps?

Dee74

usually forums grow out of demand, yes
We start them as threads first and see what happens.

The FF are very welcoming places to everyone but I've seen a few pointedly non 12 step threads there that all have withered and died.

Threads do that.

If you want a detailed response contact an FF mod.

It's not my area of the forum - and again is really outside the purview of this thread.

D

FireSprite

For the record: My husband has been sober for 2+ years due to his own desire to be. I do NOT attend Al-Anon, no where in my post did I "complain" about him and I am NOT suffering.

You are making a lot of assumptions based on few words.

The title of this thread addresses "Friends and Family" and since the OP of this thread posts regularly on the other side of the forum I see nothing wrong with responding in the appropriate manner. Obviously my post isn't terribly offensive or Dee would have yanked it already. It sounds like you are just taking my POV very personally. I stand by my opinion.

BoxinRotz

I can tell you I've tried many things with my alcoholic husband. I've suggested counseling, I've brought in his life long friend who was a drinking and drugging buddy for many years who sobered up and became a pastor. I've brought in his son so we can openly and calmly chat which seemed to work for awhile but he always went back. I've even suggested he go to an inpatient rehab because it was getting so bad. We went to counceling together. He went to drug n alcohol to set up appointments. He went to counceling alone. I feel like I did as much as I could but it was never enough.

I've flattened his tires and hid the keys and locked the bike. I've tried telling him how much it hurts me to see him do this not only to himself but to me when he would call me the filthiest names. I've given him a lot of chances to be right with himself and kindly grow up.

Sadly, it took him totaling his motorcycle, severe road rash, massive head trauma, a TBI, several brain bleeds and a brain surgery for him to sober up and he didn't even sober up right after the accident. I did not see marked improvements until I detached with love. It was so painful to see him doing this to himself. I feel like I tried everything I could without beating him to death out of frustration. I had tried everything including begging, crying, and leaving.

We have been enjoying our life together for the last 5 weeks sober. It's the way he wanted me to believe it would always be because he told me he was 20 years sober n after the I DO's, the beast was breaking out. He's not the same guy but Boy, do I love him. I pray that he's had enough. I pray every day for him and us as a family.

Dee74

In light of the significant amount of upset this thread is causing (and it is significant) I think it's time to draw a line here.

I think all parties have had a fair say.

time to move on

D