Drinking like a normal person
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 350
Normal people can and do moderate their drinking - it is effortless - it is something they do without thinking about it. And they can because they aren't alcoholic.
What is that old saying around here? If I have to control it, it is all ready out of control. Yea, that's it.
I know I have another relapse. I'm not at all sure I have another recovery.
"We tried to find an easier softer way, but the result was nil until we let go absolutely." - Big Book, somewhere between the two blue covers....
What is that old saying around here? If I have to control it, it is all ready out of control. Yea, that's it.
I know I have another relapse. I'm not at all sure I have another recovery.
"We tried to find an easier softer way, but the result was nil until we let go absolutely." - Big Book, somewhere between the two blue covers....
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Probably my living room. Maybe my bedroom if I'm feeling lazy
Posts: 1,085
Completely agree, Johnny.
Sometimes I go out to happy hour with my coworkers (they know I don't drink anymore).
And they just order 1 drink, maybe 2 tops. They don't think about it. They don't count alcohol content. They don't measure how many drinks per hour.
The just do it without even having to think about it.
Honestly, it's fascinating to me. I feel like Jane Goodall observing the "normies" in their natural habitat.
Me on the other hand, I could probably have that one drink, but then I'd be calculating about how much vodka I'd need when I got home.
Sometimes I go out to happy hour with my coworkers (they know I don't drink anymore).
And they just order 1 drink, maybe 2 tops. They don't think about it. They don't count alcohol content. They don't measure how many drinks per hour.
The just do it without even having to think about it.
Honestly, it's fascinating to me. I feel like Jane Goodall observing the "normies" in their natural habitat.
Me on the other hand, I could probably have that one drink, but then I'd be calculating about how much vodka I'd need when I got home.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 350
Hey, if I could drink like a normal person, I'd drink all the time! 
Normies drink alcohol like we drink water: it isn't planned in advance (very often), it isn't tracked (except for medical reasons), it isn't something that consumes our every thought (unless we're in the desert) - we just drink water, no big deal, no hangover, we just do it because it is good.
I also have to say the attempting to control it IS something that the Big Book recommends to the new comer if they aren't convinced they are an alcoholic.
On the bottom of page 31 in the Big Book it says,
"We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself. Step over to the nearest barroom and try some CONTROLLED drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition."
This comes after they explain what alcoholic drinking looks like. So they say if not convince, try this. In the old days, we were not opposed to buying an unconvinced person a bottle saying "Here, have at it!"
A little different than today, no?
Normies drink alcohol like we drink water: it isn't planned in advance (very often), it isn't tracked (except for medical reasons), it isn't something that consumes our every thought (unless we're in the desert) - we just drink water, no big deal, no hangover, we just do it because it is good.
I also have to say the attempting to control it IS something that the Big Book recommends to the new comer if they aren't convinced they are an alcoholic.
On the bottom of page 31 in the Big Book it says,
"We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself. Step over to the nearest barroom and try some CONTROLLED drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition."
This comes after they explain what alcoholic drinking looks like. So they say if not convince, try this. In the old days, we were not opposed to buying an unconvinced person a bottle saying "Here, have at it!"
A little different than today, no?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 350
The marty mann test for alcoholism
(Excerpt from Marty Mann's “New Primer on Alcoholism”, 1981 (First Owl Book Edition), in the chapter “Who Is Not An Alcoholic?”, pages 83-86.) (Marty was one of the first women in A.A.)
There is a simple test which has been used hundreds of times for this purpose. Even an extremely heavy drinker should have no trouble in passing it, whereas an alcoholic, if able to complete it at all, could do so only under such heavy pressure that his life would be more miserable than he thinks it would be if he stopped drinking altogether. The chances are a hundred to one, however, against a true alcoholic's being either willing or able to undertake the test.
The Test: Select any time at all for instituting it. Now is the best time. For the next six months at least decide that you will stick to a certain number of drinks a day, that number to be not less than one and not more than three. If you are not a daily drinker, then the test should be the stated number of drinks from one to three, on those days when you do drink. Some heavy drinkers confine their drinking to weekends, but still worry about the amount they consume then. Whatever number you choose must not be exceeded under any circumstances whatever, and this includes weddings, births, funerals, occasions of sudden death and disaster, unexpected or long-awaited inheritance, promotion, or other happy events, reunions or meetings with old friends or good customers, or just sheer boredom. There must also be no special occasions on which you feel justified in adding to your quota of the stated number of drinks, such as a severe emotional upset, or the appointment to close the biggest deal of your career, or the audition you've been waiting for all your life, or the meeting with someone who is crucial to your future and of whom you are terrified. Absolutely no exceptions, or the test has been failed.
This is not an easy test, but it has been passed handily by any number of drinkers who wished to show themselves, or their families and friends, that they were not compulsive drinkers. If by any chance they failed the test, showing that they were alcoholics, they showed themselves, too, that they were, whether they were then ready to admit it openly or not. At least it prepared them for such an admission, and for the constructive action which normally follows that admission.
It is important to add that observers of such tests should not use them to try to force a flunkee to premature action. This may well backfire and produce a stubborn determination on the part of the one who has been unable to pass the test, to prove that it is not alcoholism that caused the failure. He can and does do this in several ways: by stopping drinking altogether for a self specified time (when this is over he usually breaks out in even worse form than before, and with an added resentment toward those who "drove" him to it); by instituting a rigid control over his own drinking, which produces a constant irritability that makes him impossible to be with, coupled with periodic outbreaks of devastating nature; or by giving himself a very large quota and insisting that he has remained within it, even when he has obviously been too drunk to remember how many drinks he had.
In extreme cases, he may even give himself a quota of so many drinks, and take them straight from the bottle, calling each bottle "the" drink. The backfiring from too great outside pressure may also cause a complete collapse: knowing and admitting that he cannot pass the test and is therefore an alcoholic, he will resist efforts to force him to take action by saying in effect, "So I'm an alcoholic, so I can't control my drinking, so I'll drink as I must," and go all out for perdition. This last, despite the expressed concern of some people (who believe that admitting alcoholism to be a disease, and alcoholic drinking to be uncontrollable drinking, is simply to give alcoholics a good excuse to continue), very rarely happens. Nevertheless the possibility must be taken into account by those who are trying to help an alcoholic to recognize his trouble and take constructive action on it. If he is left alone after failing such a self-taken test, the failure will begin to work on him - it has planted a seed of knowledge which may well grow into action.
The "occasional drunk" usually comes from the ranks of heavy drinkers, sometimes social drinkers. Rarely is he an abstainer between his bouts, as is generally the case with periodic alcoholics. Sometimes called "spree drinkers," these are the ones who every now and then deliberately indulge in short periods of drinking to drunkenness, usually at sporadic intervals. They talk of the "good" it does them to have a "purge" once in a while, or to "let down their hair" or to "kick over the traces" and have "all out fun." Unfortunately for them they sometimes get into trouble during these sprees, and their drinking habits are thus brought to public attention. But they can and do stop such indulgences if they find it is costing them too much, for their sprees are their
idea of fun, and not a necessity. "Occasional drunks" are most often found among youthful drinkers, whose ideas of "fun," for one reason or another, have come to center around drinking and the uninhibited behavior which excessive drinking allows.
There is a simple test which has been used hundreds of times for this purpose. Even an extremely heavy drinker should have no trouble in passing it, whereas an alcoholic, if able to complete it at all, could do so only under such heavy pressure that his life would be more miserable than he thinks it would be if he stopped drinking altogether. The chances are a hundred to one, however, against a true alcoholic's being either willing or able to undertake the test.
The Test: Select any time at all for instituting it. Now is the best time. For the next six months at least decide that you will stick to a certain number of drinks a day, that number to be not less than one and not more than three. If you are not a daily drinker, then the test should be the stated number of drinks from one to three, on those days when you do drink. Some heavy drinkers confine their drinking to weekends, but still worry about the amount they consume then. Whatever number you choose must not be exceeded under any circumstances whatever, and this includes weddings, births, funerals, occasions of sudden death and disaster, unexpected or long-awaited inheritance, promotion, or other happy events, reunions or meetings with old friends or good customers, or just sheer boredom. There must also be no special occasions on which you feel justified in adding to your quota of the stated number of drinks, such as a severe emotional upset, or the appointment to close the biggest deal of your career, or the audition you've been waiting for all your life, or the meeting with someone who is crucial to your future and of whom you are terrified. Absolutely no exceptions, or the test has been failed.
This is not an easy test, but it has been passed handily by any number of drinkers who wished to show themselves, or their families and friends, that they were not compulsive drinkers. If by any chance they failed the test, showing that they were alcoholics, they showed themselves, too, that they were, whether they were then ready to admit it openly or not. At least it prepared them for such an admission, and for the constructive action which normally follows that admission.
It is important to add that observers of such tests should not use them to try to force a flunkee to premature action. This may well backfire and produce a stubborn determination on the part of the one who has been unable to pass the test, to prove that it is not alcoholism that caused the failure. He can and does do this in several ways: by stopping drinking altogether for a self specified time (when this is over he usually breaks out in even worse form than before, and with an added resentment toward those who "drove" him to it); by instituting a rigid control over his own drinking, which produces a constant irritability that makes him impossible to be with, coupled with periodic outbreaks of devastating nature; or by giving himself a very large quota and insisting that he has remained within it, even when he has obviously been too drunk to remember how many drinks he had.
In extreme cases, he may even give himself a quota of so many drinks, and take them straight from the bottle, calling each bottle "the" drink. The backfiring from too great outside pressure may also cause a complete collapse: knowing and admitting that he cannot pass the test and is therefore an alcoholic, he will resist efforts to force him to take action by saying in effect, "So I'm an alcoholic, so I can't control my drinking, so I'll drink as I must," and go all out for perdition. This last, despite the expressed concern of some people (who believe that admitting alcoholism to be a disease, and alcoholic drinking to be uncontrollable drinking, is simply to give alcoholics a good excuse to continue), very rarely happens. Nevertheless the possibility must be taken into account by those who are trying to help an alcoholic to recognize his trouble and take constructive action on it. If he is left alone after failing such a self-taken test, the failure will begin to work on him - it has planted a seed of knowledge which may well grow into action.
The "occasional drunk" usually comes from the ranks of heavy drinkers, sometimes social drinkers. Rarely is he an abstainer between his bouts, as is generally the case with periodic alcoholics. Sometimes called "spree drinkers," these are the ones who every now and then deliberately indulge in short periods of drinking to drunkenness, usually at sporadic intervals. They talk of the "good" it does them to have a "purge" once in a while, or to "let down their hair" or to "kick over the traces" and have "all out fun." Unfortunately for them they sometimes get into trouble during these sprees, and their drinking habits are thus brought to public attention. But they can and do stop such indulgences if they find it is costing them too much, for their sprees are their
idea of fun, and not a necessity. "Occasional drunks" are most often found among youthful drinkers, whose ideas of "fun," for one reason or another, have come to center around drinking and the uninhibited behavior which excessive drinking allows.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 228
For me, it's just easier to not drink...ever. I was always anxious, on edge when I tried to moderate, which only made me want more. I've accepted the fact that I will never be able to moderate. I have a sense of peace now that I never had when drinking heavy or trying to moderate. It's just easier, for me, to accept that I can't drink, rather that jumping through all the mental hoops to try to moderate (because I never could and I never will). Seltzer water with a slice of lemon tastes better anyway. 
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,323
Originally Posted by HeadLump 
There are some great posts here, Hera, and all speaking to you from real, hard experience.
I'm approaching 8 months sober now and I know that if I just have one, it will all be over. Refusing that first drink is easier than I ever thought it could be. Refusing a second would be a different game entirely.
I love the freedom that sobriety gives me. I'm no longer a slave to thoughts of alcohol. I am free to be me - and I can trust myself to stay 'me' all the time and not morph into a self-seeking, wine-soaked witch!
Stick with it, Hera. It'll bring you a peace that you have never known before
I'm approaching 8 months sober now and I know that if I just have one, it will all be over. Refusing that first drink is easier than I ever thought it could be. Refusing a second would be a different game entirely.
I love the freedom that sobriety gives me. I'm no longer a slave to thoughts of alcohol. I am free to be me - and I can trust myself to stay 'me' all the time and not morph into a self-seeking, wine-soaked witch!
Stick with it, Hera. It'll bring you a peace that you have never known before
I love the freedom that sobriety gives me, because I was not free when I was drinking. Every day at 5pm I had 2oz whiskey chased by a beer three times before dinner. 3/4ths bottle of wine with dinner. Jameson's Irish whiskey until I passed out. So I had 20plus drinks every day.
I can't drink normally. I stopped drinking on April 6, 1986, and watched people die. Watching them die was all I needed not to slip. Each time an alcoholic slips, their slip is my drink and I don't have to do it. Thank you God. I need to go to meetings to watch people slip. They are not drinking normally cause they are just like me. I am an alcoholic.
Stick with it, Hera. It'll bring you a peace that you have never known before. And thanks for keeping me sober.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 10
Thanks everyone! The idea of drinking like a normal person is a bad one, I know. I am worried I don't have a good retort. Right now I am tired from drinking and don't want to deal with the stress it brings, the constant preoccupation, the discomfort, mood swings, frustration... But, I am anticipating a time when I start thinking that there are exceptions to abstinence. Like holidays, or fridays, or non-work days, LOL.
I appreciate everyone's perspective, it gives me a lot more ways to back talk my AV.
I appreciate everyone's perspective, it gives me a lot more ways to back talk my AV.
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 10,962
Originally Posted by Hera
But, I am anticipating a time when I start thinking that there are exceptions to abstinence. Like holidays, or fridays, or non-work days, LOL.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Getting to where I want to be
Posts: 502
It's so much easier giving up that argument. I just don't drink. I gave up wondering if I could. I gave up wondering why I couldn't. I just accept that I can't and it has become a non-issue. Now, I don't have to think about it. It feels like a great weight has been lifted from me.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: New England
Posts: 3,805
Originally Posted by HeadLump
Refusing that first drink is easier than I ever thought it could be. Refusing a second would be a different game entirely.
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