Addicted To Thought
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bethlehem, PA.
Posts: 1,781
Addicted To Thought
Does anyone ever wonder if one of our biggest problems is addiction to thought and the belief that our thoughts are actually truths? Do we really need a Devil or Mara or whatever when we have an eago with a never ending stream of thought to feed it?
Did you ever watch your flow of thoughts, they can go from the past to the future, to what your going to have for dinner, to your boss is a jerk, to a drink would be nice, to whatever in a never ending loop. Your mind delivers the thoughts while at the same time thinking well, what can I do about this, that or the other thing.
We can have thoughts of horrible things from the past that become our demons. These demons can cause all kinds of problems, PTSD, anxiety, depression and a host of other problems. We can drink the thoughts away, that works until it wears off anyhow. Sleep also seems to cut us a break from the never ending stream of thoughts.
We can then look for answers, but where does the mind look? The mind looks in the mind, kind of like the problem trying to be the solution. The mind says just don't think so much, live in the now, forget about the past.
We try that but guess what, it stops working, the thoughts come back full hammer down and we say those were crappy thoughts, lets find something else. Another Guru, self help method or whatever the mind can come up with.
This is the problem of most "awakenings", they aren't abiding, they seldom last. In fact if you do the research abiding awakeninks aren't that common. So what's an awakening anyhow? Some Gurus would say it's the "Truth". Some would say it's awakening to your true nature. Some would say you become inperturbable to the extent you are no longer led by thoughts, you've surpassed all of that and awakened.
Does an awakening of sorts end your desire to drink? Yes, drinking no longer seems to be something you want to do. Do you need an awakening to quit drinking, not in most cases from what I can tell.
So then just how does one awaken, the only things that seem to be working to one deree or another for me are the standard stuff. Detachment from thought to the extent I no longer give most thoughts much importance. Surrender, Letting Go and all of those things seem to start to happen when you detach.
What about higher powers, can it be that which is above thought, the thinker behind the thoughs, the universe, God, does it really even matter? Oneness, Duality, Atheist or whatever floats your boat.
Just a side note, I'm not in AA but they seem to have a lot of the same stuff in their program. I find it interesting that most of the Buddhist speakers, teachers I've listened to so far all speak highly of AA.
Any thoughts on Detachment, Surrender, Letting Go and all that kind of thing?
How have you slayed the thought demons?
Did you ever watch your flow of thoughts, they can go from the past to the future, to what your going to have for dinner, to your boss is a jerk, to a drink would be nice, to whatever in a never ending loop. Your mind delivers the thoughts while at the same time thinking well, what can I do about this, that or the other thing.
We can have thoughts of horrible things from the past that become our demons. These demons can cause all kinds of problems, PTSD, anxiety, depression and a host of other problems. We can drink the thoughts away, that works until it wears off anyhow. Sleep also seems to cut us a break from the never ending stream of thoughts.
We can then look for answers, but where does the mind look? The mind looks in the mind, kind of like the problem trying to be the solution. The mind says just don't think so much, live in the now, forget about the past.
We try that but guess what, it stops working, the thoughts come back full hammer down and we say those were crappy thoughts, lets find something else. Another Guru, self help method or whatever the mind can come up with.
This is the problem of most "awakenings", they aren't abiding, they seldom last. In fact if you do the research abiding awakeninks aren't that common. So what's an awakening anyhow? Some Gurus would say it's the "Truth". Some would say it's awakening to your true nature. Some would say you become inperturbable to the extent you are no longer led by thoughts, you've surpassed all of that and awakened.
Does an awakening of sorts end your desire to drink? Yes, drinking no longer seems to be something you want to do. Do you need an awakening to quit drinking, not in most cases from what I can tell.
So then just how does one awaken, the only things that seem to be working to one deree or another for me are the standard stuff. Detachment from thought to the extent I no longer give most thoughts much importance. Surrender, Letting Go and all of those things seem to start to happen when you detach.
What about higher powers, can it be that which is above thought, the thinker behind the thoughs, the universe, God, does it really even matter? Oneness, Duality, Atheist or whatever floats your boat.
Just a side note, I'm not in AA but they seem to have a lot of the same stuff in their program. I find it interesting that most of the Buddhist speakers, teachers I've listened to so far all speak highly of AA.
Any thoughts on Detachment, Surrender, Letting Go and all that kind of thing?
How have you slayed the thought demons?
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne 
Does anyone ever wonder if one of our biggest problems is addiction to thought and the belief that our thoughts are actually truths? Do we really need a Devil or Mara or whatever when we have an eago with a never ending stream of thought to feed it?
Did you ever watch your flow of thoughts, they can go from the past to the future, to what your going to have for dinner, to your boss is a jerk, to a drink would be nice, to whatever in a never ending loop. Your mind delivers the thoughts while at the same time thinking well, what can I do about this, that or the other thing.
(Meister Eckhart)
We can have thoughts of horrible things from the past that become our demons. These demons can cause all kinds of problems, PTSD, anxiety, depression and a host of other problems. We can drink the thoughts away, that works until it wears off anyhow. Sleep also seems to cut us a break from the never ending stream of thoughts.
We can then look for answers, but where does the mind look? The mind looks in the mind, kind of like the problem trying to be the solution. The mind says just don't think so much, live in the now, forget about the past.
We try that but guess what, it stops working, the thoughts come back full hammer down and we say those were crappy thoughts, lets find something else. Another Guru, self help method or whatever the mind can come up with.
This is the problem of most "awakenings", they aren't abiding, they seldom last. In fact if you do the research abiding awakeninks aren't that common.
So what's an awakening anyhow? Some Gurus would say it's the "Truth". Some would say it's awakening to your true nature. Some would say you become inperturbable to the extent you are no longer led by thoughts, you've surpassed all of that and awakened.
Does an awakening of sorts end your desire to drink? Yes, drinking no longer seems to be something you want to do. Do you need an awakening to quit drinking, not in most cases from what I can tell.
So then just how does one awaken, the only things that seem to be working to one deree or another for me are the standard stuff. Detachment from thought to the extent I no longer give most thoughts much importance. Surrender, Letting Go and all of those things seem to start to happen when you detach.
What about higher powers, can it be that which is above thought, the thinker behind the thoughs, the universe, God, does it really even matter? Oneness, Duality, Atheist or whatever floats your boat.
Just a side note, I'm not in AA but they seem to have a lot of the same stuff in their program. I find it interesting that most of the Buddhist speakers, teachers I've listened to so far all speak highly of AA.
Any thoughts on Detachment, Surrender, Letting Go and all that kind of thing?
(BackToSquareOne)
How have you slayed the thought demons?
(Big Book page 60)
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 1,344
I did like your post.
I think people are very different, but I do think most of us have some motives that are problematic for us but they are not the same for everyone. I see it as refractive errors of the soul. Kiirkegaard wrote one place an evil spirit has placed a pair of classes on my nose that magnifies things seen from on eye and degreses things seen from the other. I can to a degree understand that experience.
I do know some of mine problematic motives which undoubtebly is thinking/speculating and making objectiv sense of reality and even debating rather insensitivly.
There has been a fair amount of debing threads here the last days, I think the dangers of such debates is that some people feel hurt even though I do not think that was the intention from the posters.
Open forums are in reality not particular good for debate.
I think people are very different, but I do think most of us have some motives that are problematic for us but they are not the same for everyone. I see it as refractive errors of the soul. Kiirkegaard wrote one place an evil spirit has placed a pair of classes on my nose that magnifies things seen from on eye and degreses things seen from the other. I can to a degree understand that experience.
I do know some of mine problematic motives which undoubtebly is thinking/speculating and making objectiv sense of reality and even debating rather insensitivly.
There has been a fair amount of debing threads here the last days, I think the dangers of such debates is that some people feel hurt even though I do not think that was the intention from the posters.
Open forums are in reality not particular good for debate.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Opps! Lost a ton of text.
Anger is not getting our way today.
Resentment is not getting our way yesterday.
Fear is not getting our way tomorrow.
"There exists only the present instant... a Now which always and without end is itself new. There is no yesterday nor any tomorrow, but only Now, as it was a thousand years ago and as it will be a thousand years hence.
(Meister Eckhart)
"We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection".
(Big Book page 60)
"This thought brings us to Step Ten, which suggests we continue to take personal inventory and continue to set right any new mistakes as we go along. We vigorously commenced this way of living as we cleaned up the past. We have entered the world of the Spirit. Our next function is to grow in understanding and effectiveness. This is not an overnight matter. It should continue for our lifetime. Continue to watch for selfishness, dishonesty, resentment, and fear. When these crop up, we ask God at once to remove them. We discuss them with someone immediately and make amends quickly if we have harmed anyone. Then we resolutely turn our thoughts to someone we can help. Love and tolerance of others is our code."
(Big Book page 84)
Enlightenment
Revelations
Epiphany's
Satori
Moksha
Nirodha
Nirvana
IMNSHO A "Spiritual Awakening" is;
The most reliable way to stay sober
The most comfortable way to stay sober
And therefore the safest way to stay sober
"It's been said that to find the truth you start by getting rid of everything thats false. If thoughts are just thoughts and most of them aren't really real, (outside of thought) , then, if you got rid of all of that what would you be left with? It's a knowing not a doing, when you know at a deep enough level that thoughts are just thoughts the rest starts to fall into place."
(BackToSquareOne)
A "Higher Power" is anything that allows us to start living our life based on principles rather than personality (our personality). A Power that in effect frees us from poor decisions, fallacious reasoning and bad Karma.
Step 11 "Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out" - is the equivalent to spiritual detachment or ZaZen.
IMNSHO Spiritual growth is the direct result of a series of struggle/surrender cycles. We first struggle to see where we are wrong, week or at fault. Then we go on to surrender the idea that we can fix it our self without help.
We can have thoughts of horrible things from the past that become our demons. These demons can cause all kinds of problems, PTSD, anxiety, depression and a host of other problems. We can drink the thoughts away, that works until it wears off anyhow. Sleep also seems to cut us a break from the never ending stream of thoughts.
Resentment is not getting our way yesterday.
Fear is not getting our way tomorrow.
We can then look for answers, but where does the mind look? The mind looks in the mind, kind of like the problem trying to be the solution. The mind says just don't think so much, live in the now, forget about the past.
(Meister Eckhart)
We try that but guess what, it stops working, the thoughts come back full hammer down and we say those were crappy thoughts, lets find something else. Another Guru, self help method or whatever the mind can come up with.
(Big Book page 60)
This is the problem of most "awakenings", they aren't abiding, they seldom last. In fact if you do the research abiding awakeninks aren't that common.
"This thought brings us to Step Ten, which suggests we continue to take personal inventory and continue to set right any new mistakes as we go along. We vigorously commenced this way of living as we cleaned up the past. We have entered the world of the Spirit. Our next function is to grow in understanding and effectiveness. This is not an overnight matter. It should continue for our lifetime. Continue to watch for selfishness, dishonesty, resentment, and fear. When these crop up, we ask God at once to remove them. We discuss them with someone immediately and make amends quickly if we have harmed anyone. Then we resolutely turn our thoughts to someone we can help. Love and tolerance of others is our code."
(Big Book page 84)
So what's an awakening anyhow? Some Gurus would say it's the "Truth". Some would say it's awakening to your true nature. Some would say you become inperturbable to the extent you are no longer led by thoughts, you've surpassed all of that and awakened.
Revelations
Epiphany's
Satori
Moksha
Nirodha
Nirvana
Does an awakening of sorts end your desire to drink? Yes, drinking no longer seems to be something you want to do. Do you need an awakening to quit drinking, not in most cases from what I can tell.
The most reliable way to stay sober
The most comfortable way to stay sober
And therefore the safest way to stay sober
So then just how does one awaken, the only things that seem to be working to one deree or another for me are the standard stuff. Detachment from thought to the extent I no longer give most thoughts much importance. Surrender, Letting Go and all of those things seem to start to happen when you detach.
(BackToSquareOne)
What about higher powers, can it be that which is above thought, the thinker behind the thoughs, the universe, God, does it really even matter? Oneness, Duality, Atheist or whatever floats your boat.
Just a side note, I'm not in AA but they seem to have a lot of the same stuff in their program. I find it interesting that most of the Buddhist speakers, teachers I've listened to so far all speak highly of AA.
Any thoughts on Detachment, Surrender, Letting Go and all that kind of thing?
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: London
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
Does anyone ever wonder if one of our biggest problems is addiction to thought and the belief that our thoughts are actually truths? Do we really need a Devil or Mara or whatever when we have an eago with a never ending stream of thought to feed it?
Did you ever watch your flow of thoughts, they can go from the past to the future, to what your going to have for dinner, to your boss is a jerk, to a drink would be nice, to whatever in a never ending loop. Your mind delivers the thoughts while at the same time thinking well, what can I do about this, that or the other thing.
We can have thoughts of horrible things from the past that become our demons. These demons can cause all kinds of problems, PTSD, anxiety, depression and a host of other problems. We can drink the thoughts away, that works until it wears off anyhow. Sleep also seems to cut us a break from the never ending stream of thoughts.
We can then look for answers, but where does the mind look? The mind looks in the mind, kind of like the problem trying to be the solution. The mind says just don't think so much, live in the now, forget about the past.
We try that but guess what, it stops working, the thoughts come back full hammer down and we say those were crappy thoughts, lets find something else. Another Guru, self help method or whatever the mind can come up with.
This is the problem of most "awakenings", they aren't abiding, they seldom last. In fact if you do the research abiding awakeninks aren't that common. So what's an awakening anyhow? Some Gurus would say it's the "Truth". Some would say it's awakening to your true nature. Some would say you become inperturbable to the extent you are no longer led by thoughts, you've surpassed all of that and awakened.
Does an awakening of sorts end your desire to drink? Yes, drinking no longer seems to be something you want to do. Do you need an awakening to quit drinking, not in most cases from what I can tell.
So then just how does one awaken, the only things that seem to be working to one deree or another for me are the standard stuff. Detachment from thought to the extent I no longer give most thoughts much importance. Surrender, Letting Go and all of those things seem to start to happen when you detach.
What about higher powers, can it be that which is above thought, the thinker behind the thoughs, the universe, God, does it really even matter? Oneness, Duality, Atheist or whatever floats your boat.
Just a side note, I'm not in AA but they seem to have a lot of the same stuff in their program. I find it interesting that most of the Buddhist speakers, teachers I've listened to so far all speak highly of AA.
Any thoughts on Detachment, Surrender, Letting Go and all that kind of thing?
How have you slayed the thought demons?
Did you ever watch your flow of thoughts, they can go from the past to the future, to what your going to have for dinner, to your boss is a jerk, to a drink would be nice, to whatever in a never ending loop. Your mind delivers the thoughts while at the same time thinking well, what can I do about this, that or the other thing.
We can have thoughts of horrible things from the past that become our demons. These demons can cause all kinds of problems, PTSD, anxiety, depression and a host of other problems. We can drink the thoughts away, that works until it wears off anyhow. Sleep also seems to cut us a break from the never ending stream of thoughts.
We can then look for answers, but where does the mind look? The mind looks in the mind, kind of like the problem trying to be the solution. The mind says just don't think so much, live in the now, forget about the past.
We try that but guess what, it stops working, the thoughts come back full hammer down and we say those were crappy thoughts, lets find something else. Another Guru, self help method or whatever the mind can come up with.
This is the problem of most "awakenings", they aren't abiding, they seldom last. In fact if you do the research abiding awakeninks aren't that common. So what's an awakening anyhow? Some Gurus would say it's the "Truth". Some would say it's awakening to your true nature. Some would say you become inperturbable to the extent you are no longer led by thoughts, you've surpassed all of that and awakened.
Does an awakening of sorts end your desire to drink? Yes, drinking no longer seems to be something you want to do. Do you need an awakening to quit drinking, not in most cases from what I can tell.
So then just how does one awaken, the only things that seem to be working to one deree or another for me are the standard stuff. Detachment from thought to the extent I no longer give most thoughts much importance. Surrender, Letting Go and all of those things seem to start to happen when you detach.
What about higher powers, can it be that which is above thought, the thinker behind the thoughs, the universe, God, does it really even matter? Oneness, Duality, Atheist or whatever floats your boat.
Just a side note, I'm not in AA but they seem to have a lot of the same stuff in their program. I find it interesting that most of the Buddhist speakers, teachers I've listened to so far all speak highly of AA.
Any thoughts on Detachment, Surrender, Letting Go and all that kind of thing?
How have you slayed the thought demons?
If we were to live truly in the moment and only use our minds when absolutely necessary I.e for problem solving etc. we would not be addicts. So e may argue that point but its true. Live entirely in the present moment without the intrusion of thought into our lives and drinking, smoking, drug abuse would not be required. The problem is that the addiction to thought is something we have had for our entire lives and is far harder to break than the habit of drinking. Thoughts and anxiety present themselves as being extremely necessary processes and so we find it nearly impossible to ignore them but slowly but surely I am spending less of my days now lost in thought and more of my days actually engaging with the present moment.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by MattyBoy
Watch Eckhart Tolle's video on 'how to break the habit of excessive thinking'. It can be found on youtube. (If you haven't already heard of him, he talks a lot about how we identify with our thoughts too much and need to let go of them to be find true joy ).
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 480
Just FYI, thinking does not cause PTSD. Trauma (extreme and/or prolonged terror) causes PTSD.
I'm not in favor of animal testing, but scientists have induced PTSD in animals for the purpose of studying genetic predisposition and brain damage caused by traumatic events (singular or repeated). Small children (seen in domestic abuse cases) also can exhibit symptoms of PTSD. Neither of these groups are known for the strength of their prefrontal cortex (cognitive) functioning.
Certainly, the prefrontal cortex is involved after the fact: it gets hijacked by the amygdala (limbic system) to explain what would otherwise be an inexplicable response to the current stimuli.
Therapies include highly structured (CBT) prefrontal cortex training, but this is an attempt to help the brain allow the PFC back in the driver's seat more often. The disorder didn't originate in the PFC. However, a therapy that revolutionized the PTSD treatment approach was EMDR (eye movement desensitization and reprocessing), but has now expanded to nearly any bi-lateral stimulation technique - these therapies are not used to access or modify the PFC, but to access and process traumatic experiences stored in the limbic system.
As one who has dealt long and wearily with this disorder, I have become something of a lay-expert in an attempt to understand and fix what happened to my brain.
PTSD class is now over.
I'm not in favor of animal testing, but scientists have induced PTSD in animals for the purpose of studying genetic predisposition and brain damage caused by traumatic events (singular or repeated). Small children (seen in domestic abuse cases) also can exhibit symptoms of PTSD. Neither of these groups are known for the strength of their prefrontal cortex (cognitive) functioning.
Certainly, the prefrontal cortex is involved after the fact: it gets hijacked by the amygdala (limbic system) to explain what would otherwise be an inexplicable response to the current stimuli.
Therapies include highly structured (CBT) prefrontal cortex training, but this is an attempt to help the brain allow the PFC back in the driver's seat more often. The disorder didn't originate in the PFC. However, a therapy that revolutionized the PTSD treatment approach was EMDR (eye movement desensitization and reprocessing), but has now expanded to nearly any bi-lateral stimulation technique - these therapies are not used to access or modify the PFC, but to access and process traumatic experiences stored in the limbic system.
As one who has dealt long and wearily with this disorder, I have become something of a lay-expert in an attempt to understand and fix what happened to my brain.
PTSD class is now over.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bethlehem, PA.
Posts: 1,781
Originally Posted by DylanS
Just FYI, thinking does not cause PTSD. Trauma (extreme and/or prolonged terror) causes PTSD.
I'm not in favor of animal testing, but scientists have induced PTSD in animals for the purpose of studying genetic predisposition and brain damage caused by traumatic events (singular or repeated). Small children (seen in domestic abuse cases) also can exhibit symptoms of PTSD. Neither of these groups are known for the strength of their prefrontal cortex (cognitive) functioning.
Certainly, the prefrontal cortex is involved after the fact: it gets hijacked by the amygdala (limbic system) to explain what would otherwise be an inexplicable response to the current stimuli.
Therapies include highly structured (CBT) prefrontal cortex training, but this is an attempt to help the brain allow the PFC back in the driver's seat more often. The disorder didn't originate in the PFC. However, a therapy that revolutionized the PTSD treatment approach was EMDR (eye movement desensitization and reprocessing), but has now expanded to nearly any bi-lateral stimulation technique - these therapies are not used to access or modify the PFC, but to access and process traumatic experiences stored in the limbic system.
As one who has dealt long and wearily with this disorder, I have become something of a lay-expert in an attempt to understand and fix what happened to my brain.
PTSD class is now over.
I'm not in favor of animal testing, but scientists have induced PTSD in animals for the purpose of studying genetic predisposition and brain damage caused by traumatic events (singular or repeated). Small children (seen in domestic abuse cases) also can exhibit symptoms of PTSD. Neither of these groups are known for the strength of their prefrontal cortex (cognitive) functioning.
Certainly, the prefrontal cortex is involved after the fact: it gets hijacked by the amygdala (limbic system) to explain what would otherwise be an inexplicable response to the current stimuli.
Therapies include highly structured (CBT) prefrontal cortex training, but this is an attempt to help the brain allow the PFC back in the driver's seat more often. The disorder didn't originate in the PFC. However, a therapy that revolutionized the PTSD treatment approach was EMDR (eye movement desensitization and reprocessing), but has now expanded to nearly any bi-lateral stimulation technique - these therapies are not used to access or modify the PFC, but to access and process traumatic experiences stored in the limbic system.
As one who has dealt long and wearily with this disorder, I have become something of a lay-expert in an attempt to understand and fix what happened to my brain.
PTSD class is now over.
Yes your right, I didn't word that very well. I said "We can have thoughts of horrible things from the past that become our demons. These demons can cause all kinds of problems, PTSD, anxiety, depression and a host of other problems."
I was diagnosed with that over 20 years ago. For me anyhow the treatment back then didn't seem to help much. Good to hear though they're making advances in the field. I think things like PTSD have always been under diagnosed, under treated, and under reported. Many never seek treatment to begin with.
I wonder how high a percentage of people with alcohol and drug abuse issues also have other mental health issues tagging along, things like PTSD, depression, anxiety, etc.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Many of the same therapies that have found success in treating depression, anxiety and ptsd are also successful in treating addiction. In particular I am thinking of meditation, mindfulness and CBT. There is good evidence based science which supports this association, strengthened by the principle of self direction and agency. Lack of agency is common in depression anxiety and ptsd, and means by which this can be strengthened are shown to be effective. Self empowerment is also effective for addiction treatment.
How would your life be different if You stopped validating your victim mentality? Let today be the day You shake off your self-defeating drama and embrace your innate ability to recover and achieve.
― Steve Maraboli, Life, the Truth, and Being Free
How would your life be different if You stopped validating your victim mentality? Let today be the day You shake off your self-defeating drama and embrace your innate ability to recover and achieve.
― Steve Maraboli, Life, the Truth, and Being Free
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,785
Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
Did you ever watch your flow of thoughts, they can go from the past to the future, to what your going to have for dinner, to your boss is a jerk, to a drink would be nice, to whatever in a never ending loop. Your mind delivers the thoughts while at the same time thinking well, what can I do about this, that or the other thing.
I sit up in bed and boom, old sh*t, new sh*t, left sh*t, blue sh*t right from the get go. There are times it is so bad and jumbled I can't even sort it out. I have said out loud many times "Just stop". It is like my unconscious mind is leaking into my conscious mind.
This is when I say my morning prayers. I say them out loud because if I try and say them in my head the spin takes me away again. It is like if my mouth is working then my mind is forced to go that way and not take off elsewhere. I get the same results when I work with my hands. My mind has to concentrate on on my hands moving and it can't do both at the same time which in some ways amazes me because mentally I am a great multitasker but not physically. Physically I can only do one thing at a time.
Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
So then just how does one awaken, the only things that seem to be working to one degree or another for me are the standard stuff. Detachment from thought to the extent I no longer give most thoughts much importance. Surrender, Letting Go and all of those things seem to start to happen when you detach.
I think I too dismiss my thoughts, I have to or they would drive me crazy. I think this is a characteristic of the alcoholic. In the beginning drinking made them go away, as time went on they were more focused BUT they were all selfish and self seeking thoughts and I listened to them. They were my thoughts, I never dreamed they were doing me harm.
As it got to the end of my career they were taking me away. I wanted more and more to get away from people. They were the problem, not me. I was heading for complete isolation. Just me and my thoughts. My mother lives with me, we are more like roommates though and 99.9% of the time she is in her bedroom but that was still not enough for me. I thought many times of renting a motel room for the weekend so I could be alone, really alone.
I believe that the comments made in AA like "get out of the way" or getting out of yourself" or "get out of your own head" refers to getting away from these mind spins. When I go to a meeting I do in fact get away from these thoughts. I am busy concentrating on the lead, or reading the BB or discussion. They pause for that hour and sometimes that is all the rest I need to carry on.
Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
Any thoughts on Detachment, Surrender, Letting Go and all that kind of thing? How have you slayed the thought demons?
I mentioned in another thread that I am better at making decisions if I have time to ponder them and this is the process I use. Sometimes it is not in the front of my mind. It does slip to the back until it works itself out and I get an "AH HA" moment. My gears spin slow...lol I do hope that as more time goes on that this will happen faster but I am content with how it works now. It is 100% better than what it was.
I think this sort of mental working that is mentioned in the AA promises. #11. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us.
This tells me that at some point, I will be able to have this intuition or instinct happen much faster and easier then I do today. This is what I see and hear if I speak to an old timer in AA. They know it and feel it, but it took years to get there.
The AA promises also state "sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. They will always materialize if we work for them". I am getting them slowly and I am okay with that. If I got them to fast I don't think I could handle them or process them. It feels like my mind is an open wound that is slowly healing but it is healing and that is progress.
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Beyond awesome post GracieLou! An interesting thing I heard several neuroscientists and a bunch of buddhist teachers say is that your thoughts happen before you think them and if you really could control your thoughts you would be able to stop thinking. So then do we control our thoughts or do they control us?
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Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
Beyond awesome post GracieLou! An interesting thing I heard several neuroscientists and a bunch of buddhist teachers say is that your thoughts happen before you think them and if you really could control your thoughts you would be able to stop thinking. So then do we control our thoughts or do they control us?
I can ignore some of them for what they are, uninitiated thoughts. This is the spin. These are thoughts, not thinking.
Then there is the conscious like I have now while I am typing this post. I am thinking and contemplating what I type.
I can now separate the two. I could not when I was drinking.
I guess when people say you are thinking to much or "stinking thinking" I was thinking but it was about the uninitiated thoughts. They were overpowering me. Now that I am sober, I am awake and can see the difference in them.
Again, I do this slowly and I don't do it all the time. There are MANY times those uninitiated thoughts can and will take over. These are times I talk to people in AA and my sponsor. They can and will tell me if I am in the way or better yet, yet my thoughts are in the way and if they are, then I let go of them. I can let go because I have identified them as uninitiated thoughts.
Once I can do that, they have lost their control and I am back on track until the next one comes along. It progress, not perfection.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bethlehem, PA.
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Originally Posted by GracieLou
I can ignore some of them for what they are, uninitiated thoughts. This is the spin. These are thoughts, not thinking.
Then there is the conscious like I have now while I am typing this post. I am thinking and contemplating what I type.
You nailed it there GracyLou, we have free will to act on the thoughts or not but could we really ever control our flow of thoughts.
That bell or bike person
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: london
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I think that western thought and experience teaches us that by honing and sharpening the tool of our intellect it will help us suceed . When dealing with the world of cause and effect i certainly think it holds true .
When we go into the realms of wanting eternal bliss, moksha, liberation, grace, nirodha i'm not sure that an intellectual sharp tool is the correct tool to use , although it is the only tool we have for our understanding .
When i gave up trying to understand any of it, when i just accepted life as it is, i found i had no questions, if you utterly accept life ... what questions could you possibly have ? other than where is the bus stop ? where do i get food ? everyday stuff like that.
Why do people torture themselves with the questions when they already have the answers, why don't they like the answers they have ?
I have no problems, there is nothing to understand, by asking the question you are cultivating the need in you for answers. Just drop it, accept it, whatever. It's got nothing to do with me.
If i can say nothing about happiness how can i be unhappy ?
Just drop it, have a nice life,
Bestwishes, m
When we go into the realms of wanting eternal bliss, moksha, liberation, grace, nirodha i'm not sure that an intellectual sharp tool is the correct tool to use , although it is the only tool we have for our understanding .
When i gave up trying to understand any of it, when i just accepted life as it is, i found i had no questions, if you utterly accept life ... what questions could you possibly have ? other than where is the bus stop ? where do i get food ? everyday stuff like that.
Why do people torture themselves with the questions when they already have the answers, why don't they like the answers they have ?
I have no problems, there is nothing to understand, by asking the question you are cultivating the need in you for answers. Just drop it, accept it, whatever. It's got nothing to do with me.
If i can say nothing about happiness how can i be unhappy ?
Just drop it, have a nice life,
Bestwishes, m
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bethlehem, PA.
Posts: 1,781
Originally Posted by mecanix
I think that western thought and experience teaches us that by honing and sharpening the tool of our intellect it will help us suceed . When dealing with the world of cause and effect i certainly think it holds true .
When we go into the realms of wanting eternal bliss, moksha, liberation, grace, nirodha i'm not sure that an intellectual sharp tool is the correct tool to use , although it is the only tool we have for our understanding .
When i gave up trying to understand any of it, when i just accepted life as it is, i found i had no questions, if you utterly accept life ... what questions could you possibly have ? other than where is the bus stop ? where do i get food ? everyday stuff like that.
Why do people torture themselves with the questions when they already have the answers, why don't they like the answers they have ?
I have no problems, there is nothing to understand, by asking the question you are cultivating the need in you for answers. Just drop it, accept it, whatever. It's got nothing to do with me.
If i can say nothing about happiness how can i be unhappy ?
Just drop it, have a nice life,
Bestwishes, m
When we go into the realms of wanting eternal bliss, moksha, liberation, grace, nirodha i'm not sure that an intellectual sharp tool is the correct tool to use , although it is the only tool we have for our understanding .
When i gave up trying to understand any of it, when i just accepted life as it is, i found i had no questions, if you utterly accept life ... what questions could you possibly have ? other than where is the bus stop ? where do i get food ? everyday stuff like that.
Why do people torture themselves with the questions when they already have the answers, why don't they like the answers they have ?
I have no problems, there is nothing to understand, by asking the question you are cultivating the need in you for answers. Just drop it, accept it, whatever. It's got nothing to do with me.
If i can say nothing about happiness how can i be unhappy ?
Just drop it, have a nice life,
Bestwishes, m
That's deep stuff, kind of the "What Is, Is" thing. If you use thought to try to figure out thought you are just creating more thought. Kind of like the problem trying to be the solution.
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,949
Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
Did you ever watch your flow of thoughts, they can go from the past to the future, to what your going to have for dinner, to your boss is a jerk, to a drink would be nice, to whatever in a never ending loop. Your mind delivers the thoughts while at the same time thinking well, what can I do about this, that or the other thing.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
... we have free will to act on the thoughts or not but could we really ever control our flow of thoughts.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
That's deep stuff, kind of the "What Is, Is" thing. If you use thought to try to figure out thought you are just creating more thought. Kind of like the problem trying to be the solution.
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