Kathleen41

I understand your disagreement with my post. However, I'm just following the directions in the book. Nothing I post can keep someone else from drinking. If you think you can, you might need to think about that!! If you retread my post I told him to call his sponsor, and do what he needs to do. I also said I hope he chooses not to drink. I agree, it's very dangerous, and he may not "make it back" to us.

If someone is not convinced on step one, he is not convinced, and there will be no helping him until he is convinced:

"We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself. Step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition.

Though there is no way of proving it, we believe that early in our drinking careers most of us could have stopped drinking. But the difficulty is that few alcoholics have enough desire to stop while there is yet time. We have heard of a few instances where people, who showed definite signs of alcoholism, were able to stop for a long period because of an overpowering desire to do so." Alcoholics Anonymous, 1st Edition, pg 31-32.

So, as outlandish as it may sound, it is by the book. I truly hope everyone who wants sobriety can achieve and maintain it. But I'm not foolish enough to believe anything I say or do is gonna keep someone else sober!!!

deeker

Most of us have been unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics. No person likes to think he is bodily and mentally different from his fellows. Therefore, it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been charaterized by countless vain attempts to prove we could drink like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his liquor drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.

Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. Page 30, lines 1 - 6

Reprinted with Permission Of AA World Services, inc

FeenixxRising

Kathleen, I do understand the suggestion is in the Big Book; however, the Big Book is just that, a book. It's suggestions and directions were written by men, and man is imperfect; therefore, the Big Book is imperfect. I personally feel the "jitters" suggestion is dangerous. Morally, I could never suggest that a sober alcoholic might want to do some more [drinking] research. The potential consequences are just too dire.

As for helping someone stay sober, I suppose I am "foolish" and "self-centered" enough to believe that I can at least say a few things that may give a sober alcoholic a reason to pause and think about the implications of taking another drink.

Anyway, I'll end my part of the discussion here. Reasonable people can agree to disagree, and I don't want to hijack Zane's thread anymore than I already have.

longbeachone

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but trying to control my drinking led me to the most out of control drinking period of my life. I fell, and fell hard. I was in better shape when I drank as much as I wanted. I'm not sure why, but it was a massive failure.

hawaiihypnosis

Zane, instead of going out and drinking I would like to suggest that you step back for a second and become aware of what drinking does for you.

I know a lot of us alcoholics refuse to believe that alcohol does anything for us. If this was the case, then we wouldn't be drinking.

While a behaviour can be bad, the intentions behind the behaviour can be good.

For me, drinking allowed me to feel feelings of connection.

Stop for a second, and look at it this way. Every behaviour is trying to do something good for you. Once you know what these behaviours are trying to get for you, then you can find alternative behaviours.

While drinking can be a bad habit, its obviously doing something for the person drinking. It may provide connection, or security, confidence, etc.

Once you know what this behaviour is doing for you, you can start to think about alternative behaviours that can provide these same powerful feelings.

Aloha,
Antonio

hawaiihypnosis

When I quit drinking two months ago I waited till my cravings were really really bad. Once they were really bad I simply closed my eyes and had a dialouge with the "part" of me that controlled my behaviour of drinking.

It was kind of like a meditative state. When I "connected" with the part of me that wanted me to drink I imagined as if this part floated down to my right hand. I could see this part sitting in my hand. If I remember correctly it was shaped like a ball of a dark grey "misty color". It had the texture of something like that green goo we play with when we are kids.

I then asked this "part" - What do you want for me? This is when it told me that it wanted to feel connection.

I knew what had to be done. I had to start doing activities that would allow me to feel this connection stronger than alcohol ever could.

Now my gf and I are doing much more hikes out here on Kauai. I'm also doing more speaking gigs out here.

Don't fret, it gets better!

Aloha,
Antonio

EndGameNYC

It seems the OP has left the building.

I hope all is well.

Sudz No More

I was thinking the same thing NYC. He made one post and never returned

hawaiihypnosis

Maybe he found himself clean and sober. Hopefully.

Aloha,
Antonio

FeenixxRising

Yes, hopefully not one and done, and back out.

DayTrader

I remember hearing things like that at my first handful of AA meetings. It sounded so cold, so selfish, so uncaring. I promised myself I'd never say anything like that.

Fast forward a handful of months and it started to make sense. A hard drinker.....I can probably stop them. They still have that ability - to stop. So I usually drop a couple "don't do it's" or "you should really think about the ramifications of that decision's" around and watch to see what happens. Beyond that, I don't believe I can stop a died-in-the-wool alcoholic from drinking. Maybe I can postpone it a day......or a week.....but I can't stop them. Additionally, I'm no longer co-dependent enough to try to direct someone's life for them - not an adult anyway.

I've only been working with drunks about 6 years so I'm still pretty new at this but my reply now comes from that experience as well as a sponsor, grand sponsor, great grand sponsor (alllllmost 100 years between those three guys) and a bunch of "old timers" (30+ years) that I've gotten close with who've been at this game a long LONG time collectively.

I was a user of people BIG time.....all my life. I wouldn't do much of anything if I thought I could get someone else to do it for me. That ranged from work......all the way to making simple decisions. I thought I was just agreeable. Truth was, I was a lot of things: afraid, irresponsible, spoiled, and emotionally immature to name a few.

I triiiiiiiiiiiiiied to get other ppl to get me sober. Tried to get other ppl to help me stay sober. I refused to do much of anything other than "look for help." See, I didn't want to be in the game. I wanted you all to play it for me and I wanted to participate in the rewards.

Me....by myself....making the decision in my head that I wanted to get sober (ok, the real first decision was that I wanted to want to get sober......even though I didn't want to get sober at the time) HAD to be something I did. God.....if only I could have gotten someone else to make that decision for me...... It would have been the perfect excuse to blow it all somewhere down the road because it wasn't something "I" wanted but just another round of unsuccessful people-pleasing.

Leading by example is my best weapon. Too much beyond that, for me, is usually arrogant, co-dependent and potentially harmful to the person I'm trying/pretending to "help."

miamifella

Kathleen--

Maybe you could stop on your own, but there are many of us who needed help.

I understand that you are speaking the AA approach which does not support helping people on the edge, but sometimes when someone is reaching out for help, helping IS the right thing to do.

I was lucky to have non-addicted friends who were always there for me when I needed more strength than I had myself. When people in 12-step programs said to go out and use, I did. When friends told me that I did not have to give in to my cravings, I was able to stop.

AA says that it is not good to help someone who says they want to drink or drug--that someone in trouble should pray. But if prayer won't help someone then why not help (or at least refrain from encouraging destructive behavior). Sometimes human aid is needed to keep someone sober. I am living proof that human aid works!

Dee74

I can't stop anyone drinking, but I can share my honest lived in experience of how I stopped and what it took for me to get there.

I think the vast majority of people who find SR have already tried the control drinking experiment, whether they admit it or not...I think sometimes that suggestion can actually be fuel for the fire, rather than the fire extinguisher.

D

miamifella

It is amazing how sometimes just sharing or listening can help someone on the brink of losing sobriety. You do not stop someone from drinking, but you can give them the space to stop themselves.

I think, when people like OP say they are "sick of AA" or leave the program, usually it is not anything against AA--rather (I think) they just need to be able to talk out their problems.

I hope Zane found someone to listen.

RobbyRobot

I spent years professionally in the field of addiction recovery working in rehab and day-programs (IOP) and my experience as well in AA and for me, there is plenty of real help to be offered even for the most resistant of drinkers/alcoholics.

It's really about knowing just how far a drinker/drunk can go south with his life and yet still be open to certain offerings from those who he or she admires and respects on a gut-level. When people are hurting enough they may choose to drink, and defend their actions with lies - and sometimes those lies are they don't want to quit and/or they want to try to control their drinking. More often than not, they have already failed at drinking so much they are really just completely unresolved in what to do next - so they drink of course.

When these same people meet someone who has walked in their shoes they take notice of course. And when those someone's can share their experience with respect and gratitude for being of service to the still suffering drinker, damn straight the drinker takes notice again. I've plenty of stories from my days back helping in rehab and IOP with drinkers and addicts openly lying about recovery yet still trying to quit anyways.

Earning a drinkers trust and respect is sometimes an impossible challenge to be sure - but not always - and so, I've learned it's always best to keep my heart and mind open to even the most hardened drinker/user because you never know when they just might make this day their final quit. I don't tell people they haven't had enough, and I don't agree with them when they tell me either. Anybody who wants to quit has had enough is the way of things for me anyways. I know first hand just how devious and destructive addiction ambivalence in action can present itself - and once I see that in anybody I helped, I always had their back on helping them quit.

When I was quitting myself some told me too I hadn't had enough, lol. I always told these people to go help someone else because I'm all stocked up on stupid, thanks.

Kathleen41

Don't know where you are coming from. Been working an AA program, with the help of a sponsor and a home group for 10 months. No Lone Ranger here!!

Kathleen41

Is this considered name calling Dee? I believe I was just called stupid.

It's fine to disagree with my thinking, and quoting of the big book, that's cool. But let's not call names, that's just immature.

Kathleen41

If the stuff going on on this thread isn't flaming, I don't know what is!!

Dee74

I didn't read it that way, Kathleen.

If you consider any rules have been broken though, please feel free to report the posts (use the button on the relevant post), and someone who hasn't been involved in this thread will look at it.

D

Boleo

Me to. When I first sought recovery, my goal was to cut down to drinking about 6 - 8 days month. At first I met that goal, but the 6 days I did drink, I would consume about 2 fifths of vodka a day. The overall result was I was experiencing DT's and black-outs more than ever.

Shortly after that, I found myself drinking 24x7 to avoid the DT's.