Thoughts on the phoney idea of moderate drinking
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
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Originally Posted by Carbonized 
ClearLight,
Good you think that way but not everyone can. In a studio or rehearsal i never had a problem. Live? Twice went on dead sober and could only think about how fast i could get offstage. Once off mumbled excuses to the rest of band and went straight home. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt i can't perform in front of people without some kind of assistance. Stage fright is more common than people think.
Good you think that way but not everyone can. In a studio or rehearsal i never had a problem. Live? Twice went on dead sober and could only think about how fast i could get offstage. Once off mumbled excuses to the rest of band and went straight home. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt i can't perform in front of people without some kind of assistance. Stage fright is more common than people think.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 204
Originally Posted by EndGameNYC
I think more important than all this is how you've managed to get a job and stay connected here during your unemployment and homelessness. You must be doing something right.
I figure if i can work like a maniac and save up a years worth of rent, i can begin to look at other options.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Originally Posted by Carbonized
Actually, i don't have a job. I have some strong leads and i'm following them up. Most likely i'll have to relocate as the ones that pay good money and i can land for sure are out of state. If i really have to, i'll catch out on a freight and hope for the best. As for being connected? Public libraries and WI/FI. Virtually all applications these days are online and so job hunting is mainly via internet. You'ed be amazed at how many homeless have laptops, tablets, etc. It' a hell of a hassle keeping gear secured but it's the way to go.
I wish you well and look forward to your updates.
Grateful
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NC
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One gig review years ago noted their ability to play virtually anyone under the table and do it while falling over drunk. Eventually, three band members died from their addictions.
I used to think I was a better golfer with a buzz going, but I tended to cross the line at times which affected my hand/eye coordination and reduced my ability. The buzz did help with my anxiety during competitions so I thought the trade off was worth it. When I first got sober my game took a nosedive and I thought I would never play as well as when I was drinking/using.
About 3 years into sobriety I was playing the best golf of my life and actually made a living at the game for a few years. As good as I became, it turned out that it wasn't good enough to sustain making a good living and I got burned out. My point is that once I got adjusted to being sober my talent surpassed anything I ever achieved while drinking/using.
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there is a whole bunch of literature on this phenomenon called "state dependent learning" and "state dependent memory".
just google those terms if you're interested.
fascinating stuff.
sounds like some of it might apply here.
has been part of my own experience, too.
just google those terms if you're interested.
fascinating stuff.
sounds like some of it might apply here.
has been part of my own experience, too.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: oz
Posts: 164
Hi Sean, I have been away for a few days and have been thinking about you're original post and my reaction to it, first let me apologise for cherry picking a couple of sentences and "shooting from the hip" without trying to fully understand what it was you were trying to articulate. Secondly I said what I did looking at it purely from an addicted persons perspective.
If you are pondering why anybody would willingly poison their own body, given that it does indeed inhibit our ability to be "centered" regardless of whether it leads to addiction or not...then I would agree with your post, broadly speaking. However this still does not account for the human experience.
It's just not that black and white to me, whether people are self medicating or "enjoying" their right of passage or bowing to peer pressure, or dulling themselves down to relate, understanding that does not account for the way these drugs make us feel in the moment (as smart as people are, they still feel, right?), there is something to be said for the instant gratification that it gives us...??
Seeing through that human experience is great, but it doesn't for me define the why...... Again sorry about my first post, however you did make me think so thanks..
If you are pondering why anybody would willingly poison their own body, given that it does indeed inhibit our ability to be "centered" regardless of whether it leads to addiction or not...then I would agree with your post, broadly speaking. However this still does not account for the human experience.
It's just not that black and white to me, whether people are self medicating or "enjoying" their right of passage or bowing to peer pressure, or dulling themselves down to relate, understanding that does not account for the way these drugs make us feel in the moment (as smart as people are, they still feel, right?), there is something to be said for the instant gratification that it gives us...??
Seeing through that human experience is great, but it doesn't for me define the why...... Again sorry about my first post, however you did make me think so thanks..
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
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Hi sunset
I find it interesting to explain both the psychology of addiction and the societies that promote it, and I don't think either come out very well.
Yes indeed the mind is mislead by instant gratification.
However I could for instance choose to cash all the money I have, sell everything I have, and take a few months high living in nice hotels in exotic locations. Following this I would then be in serious trouble. But I don't repeatedly agonize over whether I should go ahead and do this- it's just daft and out of the question.
Yet this is what we do with alcohol...
By the way a little more of my thinking aloud is on this thread’s replies 67, 65, 33 and 20, if you missed them, and have a mind not to... Best, Sean
I find it interesting to explain both the psychology of addiction and the societies that promote it, and I don't think either come out very well.
Yes indeed the mind is mislead by instant gratification.
However I could for instance choose to cash all the money I have, sell everything I have, and take a few months high living in nice hotels in exotic locations. Following this I would then be in serious trouble. But I don't repeatedly agonize over whether I should go ahead and do this- it's just daft and out of the question.
Yet this is what we do with alcohol...
By the way a little more of my thinking aloud is on this thread’s replies 67, 65, 33 and 20, if you missed them, and have a mind not to... Best, Sean
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Ok I looked back over your other posts sean, you seem to be most interested in the psychology of the human experience of drugs, which is fine however your missing the biological experience in your hypothesis. To my mind you can't consider one without the other.
I seem to remember some yrs ago reading something about scientists who studied the effects of placing electrodes in the pleasure/reward centers of rats brains, they taught the rats to press leavers to provide stimuli to these areas, the rats pressed the leavers to the point of exhuastion or death in some cases depending on the stimuli and where the electrodes were placed. I think it was more complicated than my summery but I think you know what I'm getting at here.
We are but social animals, and I believe that we do resort to the primal instinct on occasion, that is to say, we seek out pleasure....of a great meal, of good friends, of great sex, of drugs, through all these things and more we get pleasure, it effects our brain chemistry, that doesn't of course mean that we do not have the ability to rationalise what we do, but it does go to at least partially explain why we do it, if we use that as a starting point then all the psychological suppositions do have merit, but to my mind you can't just single out one area and hope to explain it, I think consideration of the whole is possably a better place to start.
I hope that makes sense? I dont consder myself very intellectual, I'm guessing there are other things to consider that I havn't thought of.
I seem to remember some yrs ago reading something about scientists who studied the effects of placing electrodes in the pleasure/reward centers of rats brains, they taught the rats to press leavers to provide stimuli to these areas, the rats pressed the leavers to the point of exhuastion or death in some cases depending on the stimuli and where the electrodes were placed. I think it was more complicated than my summery but I think you know what I'm getting at here.
We are but social animals, and I believe that we do resort to the primal instinct on occasion, that is to say, we seek out pleasure....of a great meal, of good friends, of great sex, of drugs, through all these things and more we get pleasure, it effects our brain chemistry, that doesn't of course mean that we do not have the ability to rationalise what we do, but it does go to at least partially explain why we do it, if we use that as a starting point then all the psychological suppositions do have merit, but to my mind you can't just single out one area and hope to explain it, I think consideration of the whole is possably a better place to start.
I hope that makes sense? I dont consder myself very intellectual, I'm guessing there are other things to consider that I havn't thought of.
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Sensitive and insightful may be seen as positive things in general, but I would say that in plain old daily living that isn't quite so. Sensitive and insightful takes a big old load of manure in the face quite often.
Would you rather be the person that focuses on the moldy sidewalk that needs to be powerwashed or the person that only sees the beautiful flowers growing beside it?
Would you rather be the person that invented television, or the person that made billions from it?
Would you rather have emotions that are hard to control, or always have a general feeling that everything would be fine and be even-tempered?
ETA: How many of you have sometimes wished you could switch places with your dog? Simplicity is not necessarily inferior. It is often quite beautiful and a ton less stressful.
Would you rather be the person that focuses on the moldy sidewalk that needs to be powerwashed or the person that only sees the beautiful flowers growing beside it?
Would you rather be the person that invented television, or the person that made billions from it?
Would you rather have emotions that are hard to control, or always have a general feeling that everything would be fine and be even-tempered?
ETA: How many of you have sometimes wished you could switch places with your dog? Simplicity is not necessarily inferior. It is often quite beautiful and a ton less stressful.
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ok scratch the word hypothesis I don't think that you offered a complete one, perhaps thoughts? would be a better word
@ foolsgold, I sometimes think that it would in fact be much easier to switch places with my dog, however as much as I love him he is incredibly stupid.....maybe someone else's dog would be a better bet lol.
@ foolsgold, I sometimes think that it would in fact be much easier to switch places with my dog, however as much as I love him he is incredibly stupid.....maybe someone else's dog would be a better bet lol.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Originally Posted by sunset01
I'm guessing there are other things to consider that I havn't thought of.
If addictive behaviors could be reduced to either biology or human psychology, then the prevention and treatment of addictions would be a very simple thing. We also know this because there is no single, scientific remedy for addictions.
EndGame
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Originally Posted by sunset01
Nor any single explanation for the lack of addiction (moderation) Phew I'm glad it made some sense...
The problem itself is both massive and unwieldy. There are currently hundreds, maybe thousands, of grant-funded studies on addictions in the States, yet no single effective remedy has been found.
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I am convinced that I'm an alcoholic because even at 6 years sober, I sometimes think 'one drink' that's all... and if I had one I absolutely wouldn't be satisfied and my eye would be on the bottle, and the next one and it would be off to the races. I have no ability to 'enjoy and control' alcohol at the same time.
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hmmm too many variables, not a subject I consider useful to my sobriety, but I do enjoy thinking about such things as does sean as far as I can gather.
Thanks endgame will see you round the boards!
jazz sorry I didn't realise you posted below endgame 6 yrs sober that is a great achievement. I hear you about the "just one" comment even at a couple of weeks sober I know that I will never have that "control" so I choose not to go there....it's easier for me that way. Welcome if I havn't already welcomed you
Thanks endgame will see you round the boards!
jazz sorry I didn't realise you posted below endgame 6 yrs sober that is a great achievement. I hear you about the "just one" comment even at a couple of weeks sober I know that I will never have that "control" so I choose not to go there....it's easier for me that way. Welcome if I havn't already welcomed you
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
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Sunset, I take your points.
I'm not too keen on the human-as-robot-or-at-best-a-big-rodent scientific angle though and think that there's more to psychology than the brain's pleasure centres and so on. Such things may exist but they're a subset of wider patterns of stress, often very subtle and presupposed by society...
We can reflect and think and don't just go for pleasure...
I'm not too keen on the human-as-robot-or-at-best-a-big-rodent scientific angle though and think that there's more to psychology than the brain's pleasure centres and so on. Such things may exist but they're a subset of wider patterns of stress, often very subtle and presupposed by society...
We can reflect and think and don't just go for pleasure...
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Originally Posted by sunset01
Nor any single explanation for the lack of addiction (moderation) Phew I'm glad it made some sense...
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I am convinced that I'm an alcoholic because even at 6 years sober, I sometimes think 'one drink' that's all...
Jazzloonz,
i'm convinced i'm an alcoholic because even at six years sober i never think 'one drink, that's all'.....when i get the occasional urgey ping it says "get drunk!!!!"
long as we both know who we are.....
love to see the variety interspersed among the similarities.
Jazzloonz,
i'm convinced i'm an alcoholic because even at six years sober i never think 'one drink, that's all'.....when i get the occasional urgey ping it says "get drunk!!!!"
long as we both know who we are.....
love to see the variety interspersed among the similarities.
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