Legs21

Hi all,

Definitely not trying to start a religious debate, but I consider myself an agnostic atheist and it seems so many credit their sobriety in a faith in God, salvation, the like. I have a strong faith in the universe/karma but I am still at a point in my life where I am very torn about my religious beliefs.

I was raised as a Christian and didn't start questioning until I went to college. I am a scientific mind and have seen so many negative aspects of organized religion that it is hard for me to get behind.

Any personal experiences? Anyone else questioning/established Atheism or Agnosticism?

caboblanco

For me..I don't think religion and medical issues are a good mix regardless of you beliefs. Addiction is a medical issue. I hope someday there will be a widespread non-faith based recovery method with meetings everywhere.

Legs21

Exactly. That's where I am struggling with getting behind recovery methods so grounded in a faith.

doggonecarl

I quit going to church (Roman Catholic) as soon as I left home at 17. Quickly got involved with drugs, alcohol. Intellectualized the foolishness of religion and God. Figured the golden rule was enough. But not enough to keep me from dragging my morals through the gutter.

Thirty-three years later, drinking daily, I relasped on pain killers. Two years later, my drinking out of control, I had a moment of clarity. I needed to be clean and sober. Vowed to quit. I also went back to church.

Sober almost three years. Coincidence? I don't know. I don't really care. I do know I was at the stage where I think I needed a miracle.

I got mine. Hope you find yours...spiritual or secular. We all deserve it.

dalouie

Hey Legs,
I was also brought up Christian, fairly hardcore I might add. I started questioning in my teens and haven't looked back since. I do feel the universe balances itself out over time. Be that the law of averages or whatever.

Many people do find solace and sobriety with a God or salvation, and I applaud them for that.

Personally I would rather use things more grounded in science and interaction with other people like on SR.

Its an uphill battle sometimes, so whatever keeps people strong in their sobriety is fine by me.

PhaseTwo

I was raised roman catholic but ever since the age of about 13 I started questioning the reality of gods existencd and now I am not ashamed to say I'm an atheist. I think it's great that people use god to help them achieve sobriety though because honestly whatever it takes to pull you out of the horrors of addiction I'm all for.

mick3580

I used aa to recover. There was nothing religious I have ever had to accept. I was asked at step 2, is it possible that there is a power greater than myself that could possibly help me? I said yes, it was possible. And then I moved on to step 3. If aa asked me to accept a specific idea of God, I would probably just have continued drinking.

legna

Hiya legs,

I am an atheist as well. I'm actually a member of AA and I understand your dilemma. It would be difficult to explain, but I found a secular higher power through psychology that works extraordinarily well for me. There is no doubt however, that it took great deal of time to find a higher power that did not compromise my belief system.

awuh1

I believe I was once where you are now. What helped me was to genuinely seek the truth. Asking your question indicates to me that you are also searching. IMO this is essential.

The second thing that was essential was to keep a truly open mind. There was a point that I realized that I had made up my mind about the subject and that no new information was getting in. I also realized that this is the nature of prejudice.

I think you’re on the right path.

Bon Voyage

Jfanagle

I got and have stayed sober in AA for the last 14 years. I accept that there is a certain order to the universe and I use meditation to ground myself. Beyond that I have no religious beliefs. I read many different philosophical writings and try and keep an open mind.

I use AA for the differing views that its members have and for the solutions that others have employed with regard to sober living and I appreciate the camaraderie of several members who have and continue to live very sober and productive lives. I attend very few meetings, but do go when I feel that it will keep me balanced.

I am not sure if I am agnostic and know I am not an atheist, but AA doesn't require a belief in God as far as I have been able to tell over these past years. If they do, then no one has told me I have to leave and for that I thank something, because it has kept me sober these past years.

Best wishes and good luck,
Jon

freshstart57

I have a faith in a supreme being, some might call it God, as I do. I didn't think this belief had anything to do with my addiction when I was drinking. I know it has nothing to do with my sobriety now that I am no longer addicted to alcohol. I just never touch the stuff and never will. For me, a religious or spiritual belief is separate and distinct from addiction.

There are other tools that people use to help them achieve and maintain sobriety outside of a religious/spiritual framework, if this is what you are looking for, Legs21. You can read about what other SR members have done by checking out the Secular Connections forum. Just like the other SR forums, you will find a lot of support for you there.

Best to you.

nandm

Hi. I could relate to your post quite a bit.

I was brought up in a very strict Evangelical Southern Baptist home. Every time the doors were open, which was nearly every day of the week, we were at a church function. My father was a Deacon in the church and my mom church secretary. I started questioning religion at a very early age, around 5 or 6 years old. I can clearly remember my first real question and the fact that I got in trouble for asking it, "If God is such a loving God then why do we need missionaries because if he really loved people he would not let them live and die in a Country where people can not hear about him so they wind up in hell?" That was an intense question for a 5 or 6 year old. I never got a reasonable answer for it either so the questions just deepened as I got older. Eventually I became an Atheist then Agnostic and now am probably more of an Agnostic who leans toward anti-organized religion. I also have successfully utilized the program of AA for 12 years now to stay sober.

I get around the "God", "Higher Power" thing by utilizing the terminology "Power Greater than myself." There are many things in this world that are stronger than I am in one way or another. Electricity is one of them. Energy is another. Both of those things are strong enough to harm me if I don't utilize it in the proper way. Both can do amazing things when utilized properly. There are also many forms of energy. So when I started AA when I would think of a "Power Greater than myself" I would simply think in terms of electricity/energy. It may be simply semantics or a mind game on my part but it worked for me and in many ways still does today although my views have expanded and changed over the years.

I do hope you find the answers that work for you and are able to find long term sobriety.

neferkamichael

In my home group the first word that is said is God, the first word of the serenity prayer. The last thing we do is say the Lord's Prayer. At one time I was an atheist and anything god disturbed me to the core, and if anyone can't see the 10 commandments in the 12 steps then I'm overthinking what I'm reading. AA evolved out of the Oxford Group a religious organization dedicated to helping alcoholic, of which Bill W. was a member one time. Although many people say you don't have to believe in a God the pressure is on in AA to believe in the Christian god, I've eye witnessed it for 3 years now. I take full credit for my sobriety and that will never change. It would be nice to be able to go to a meetings that has not ties to a god. Rootin for ya.

hypochondriac

I was raised a strict atheist, so much so that my idea of rebelling when I was a kid was to threaten to go to church. I remember saying that once and my mum replying 'oh no you're not!'. I chose drink instead. I have always been a little jealous of people with faith, but no matter how open minded I try to be it just doesn't work for me. I find the idea that someone needs faith to recover patronising, in a similar line to the belief that atheists have no moral compass. We do, we just don't need anyone to direct it for us. I believe that goodness is innate so I guess I have faith in people. None of this has anything to do with my recovery.

ReadyAndAble

I am sure religious faith has been instrumental in the recovery of many. As for me, I don't believe in God, haven't had a drink in two and a half years, and feel a great sense of peace about both of those things.

Just because you doubt religion, don't doubt your ability to recover. Our addictions are fond of pointing out supposed obstacles to recovery. "You can't do this because you don't have __________." Don't believe it. You have everything you need to do it, right here, right now.

I have faith in you.

Soberpotamus

I'm also an agnostic atheist.

Agnosticism concerns knowledge of a god's existence; atheism concerns belief in a god's existence... just to clarify the difference, as it's commonly misunderstood.

Synchronicity theory (AA's cute slogan "good orderly direction" might be an appropriate description of this theory) and how it isn't at odds with quantum mechanics... this is about as spiritual as I get, thus far anyway.

As for religion, buddhism is attractive to me... but I'm just learning about it. It's a matter of practicality, and a moral or ethical approach to everyday living. I practice Vipassana style meditation, from the Theravada branch.

I was raised Christian, down south... I'm from the Bible belt. So I am surrounded by theists and believers, and churchgoers. The only church I've ever felt comfortable attending was a Unitarian Universalist church, and if I do go back, this will probably be where I'll go... if I can't locate a Buddhist sangha within reasonable driving distance. The closest is an hour away.

So... I feel where you are coming from

Grungehead

Atheist: one who believes that there is no deity.

Atheist - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Agnostic: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god.

Agnostic - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

I don't see how someone can be both. An agnostic either believes it is impossible to know if there is a God, or is not committed to being an atheist or theist. An atheist believes there is no God as strongly as a theist believes there is one. What am I missing here?

Soberpotamus

Grungehead: Agnostic atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Atheist vs. Agnostic - What's the Difference Between an Atheist and an Agnostic?

Agnosticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - it is the "popular" belief in that first paragraph that most people understand about it all

Soberpotamus

It comes down to simply a matter of believing and knowing (or epistemology, if you want to be more specific).

Grungehead

OK the Wiki article helped, thanks.

I guess in that light I would probably be an agnostic theist.