Soberpotamus

I guess, technically, I'm probably crossing the line from agnostic atheist to agnostic pantheist.

tomsteve

I also have a problem with organized religion, though not a scientific mind, so I chose to follow the Christian faith.

robgt350

legs
i had a problem with alcohol for a while. i started going to AA and it was a positive experience. but my religious views is the same as yours. i was raised christian and i came to different views in college just like you did. but i continued to go to AA for a while but i did not do the steps. IMHO the religious higher power was something to fall back on no matter how much you lost in your addiction, a common bond and a source of credit for accomplishments. but these are my thoughts only. but i stopped going to AA and took the challenge on my self. that was over 8 months ago. now i am am almost 9 months sober and loving it.
you do not have to go to AA. that is only one way, of many ways to get sober.

ru12

..

Bubovski

Prior to joining SR I spent two years on a major atheist forum and came across some extreme hatred (directed towards me) and a good deal of extreme egoism and dogma based on so called scientific truths.
I see faith as transcending secular knowledge, in a strange and subtle way that does not require man made logic or science to be justified. Intuitive happenings may be relevant here.
While a literalist approach to religion is not to my liking I believe worthy stuff can still be found in these areas. I don't see God as an egomaniac, intent on forcing stuff down our throat; rather i would like to think that we are experientially engaged in finding the good, and even creating it in some peculiar way.
The AA concept relating to a Higher Power that relates to our personal understanding appeals to me as it seems to negate dogma and allow us to genuinely find ourselves while still seeking out truth within more conservative religious organizations if we so desire.

Dee74

Hey legs

the great thing is there's no one answer - and people find recovery both ways

I was an agnostic for a long time - so my recovery was initially secular - I got myself into this so I can get myself out...and I did...

but then later events in my recovery bought me back to God.
I'm happy there now and that's really all that matters for any of us, I think

I recommend you visit the Secular Connections forum if you think you may benefit from a secular recovery approach.

D

Bubovski

I have moved in irritating and fluctuating ways through atheism, agnosticism, and theism, over many decade; now I choose to believe in an ever evolving force of goodness to help me with all those really hard, and ever so tricky moral conundrums.

karate

Im not going to blast anyone for their thoughts on this .

But i would urge you to ask ,of the supreme being .

I have been spoken to in an audible voice ,or very close to that ,And i was stone sober at the time ,It was before my last binge .

Be aware the devil will trick you .

But if you folks are sober ,Great ,I would be glad to call you friends .

GroundhogDay

I think it unfortunate that organized religion drives people away from God. I also do not see the conflict between a belief in God and a belief in science/evolution that so many other people insist is there. I do believe in God and am a Christian. I don't know how I would even have the will to get out of bed in the morning if I thought there was no God.

karate

I agree" People" drive" People" away from God

Its not intensional ,but it happens

Zencat

I'm a person of no-faith and also an AA member. These two websites: AA Agnostica and
AA Agnostics of the San Franscisco Bay Area have some good information about what other atheist/agnostic AA members do in AA.

The power of Good and knowing it is found in all of us, is a good enough HP to work the steps with. When I became more true to who I am, I began laying a foundation to build from. Today I practice "that by meditating and trying to tune in on my better self for guidance and answers," I too feel more comfortable and steady. Doing so allows me to let go harmful substances without a struggle.

NYCDoglvr

I'm in my 22nd year of sobriety in AA and I'm also an agnostic, have been the entire time. Bill Wilson's Big Book says "a higher power of my understanding". So for me, GOD = group of drunks. With this I've done the 12 Steps several times and pray as well. Where I live nobody talks about their definition of higher power, probably the reason I'm still sober in AA. If you can avoid talking about God, everything should be ok.

WritingFromLife

I love this thread and I support what each and everyone of you believe (or don't believe) :-)

I was raised Christian--in many different denominations. A few years back, I became rather agnostic, if that's possible. And then some very strange "coincidences" began to occur. I can't explain them away--they have never stopped. Ongoing "signs"/messages. Not voices or anything--I'm not going crazy! These messages have saved my life.

Anyway--my take is this. I believe there is a God because I have personally seen too much--and in my case, it includes Jesus--because most of these signs included crosses. I believe they are there....

I don't believe anyone is going to burn in eternity because they don't believe what I believe.

I've had an athiest try to debate the God concept with me, the only thing I can say is--"I understand your beliefs, but I'VE seen too much"

And that's the truth!

WHATEVER WORKS FOR YOU! WHATEVER IS IN YOUR HEART!

UnixBer

I guess I could be viewed an atheist. Personally I don't believe in any God-entity or such at all. I too was raised a christian as many here (always hated going to crurch). I try to keep an open mind and do believe quite firmly that there are lots of things and forces out there that are beyond human understanding. Always loved science and nature.

MattyBoy

I don't think it is necessary for one to find God in order to get well. A state of enlightenment is within us already and what we really need is a spiritual awakening to help us find it. I'm not trying to push spirituality down people's throat but I think it's important to have some sort of spiritual guidance when recovering from alcohol.

When in active alcoholism , the alcoholic never lives in the moment. Instead they lament on the past and the guilt they feel over the pain their drinking has caused themselves and others and they speculate on the future which, to the active alcoholic, always involves more alcohol and ultimately is a very dark and bleak future. When the alcoholic recovers, I find it is important to practice living in the moment among spiritual lines. Surrendering yourself to the present moment and accept it as if you had chosen it . With this comes inner peace and serenity and with time, the past will no longer have power over the present moment and the future will become illusory and non existent . This realisation is as good a substitute for those who have found recovery through adhering to he teachings of organised religions etc.

UnixBer

Sorry for the double post. I think no matter what everyone believes, we all have equal right to our own beliefs. One thing that has put me off many times with religions, especially christianity is those religious fanatics. Those people who try to convert you and forcefeed their own views of God and his will etc... Another thing is that religion is a cause for debate and one of the biggest causes of wars all around the globe.

AA to me sounds great and a fantastic place for support and stories of others in the same boat, yet one thing, one thing that has alerted me was "giving your will to god". Ouch. As I see the world, the power of will is an individual expression. Such a thing should never be given away to anything. And let's say God exists, and he creates human being giving it free WILL of its own. Why would he/she want to claim it back? I find this a bit absurd and disturbing even (maybe it's just me).

Religion can be insiduous, creating rules and limitations in circles of people. It can also cause nightmares and fears (of an angry god maybe, or devils and their minions). I just don't find those ideas healthy to hold in your head for too long. Personally I don't believe in devils and gods as portraiyed in religions. Actually this is indeed an interesting subject and I'd like to hear some opinions from people who find God making their lives more whole.

Db1105

I given a couple of shots going back to the religion of my misspent youth and a few other denominations. It did nothing for me.i still believe in a power greater than myself. What that is, it don't know. It's not important that I know what IT is, just that it is

GroundhogDay

I hear ya, but don't confuse religion with God. Religion is an institution of Man, and Man just can't seem to resist exerting power over other men. It's made worse by the fact that some people are weak, and so are desperate to be led by a strongman. What I hate about religious fanatics, particularly born-agains, is the judgmentalism. I do not agree that Christianity is particularly prone to fanaticism.

I am a Christian, but I don't let my church bully me. I also don't let the pastor cram his political views down my throat. F*** em if they don't like it. I'll take my donations elsewhere. One reason my church survives is that it understands that the rest of the congregation feels the same way I do.

God does indeed give us free will. You're probably hung up on the idea of "obeying the commandments," and I can see why given that they are presented in those terms. I prefer to think of them as rules for living that will make you happier and closer to your true "God-given" self. If you think about it, a lot of the bad things we think we want to do are really done under the pressure of other men.

Agree with you completely. But a church can also provide a community of like-minded people to help each other and help others. My church serves as a home for a weekly AA meeting for one thing.

I do believe in angels and demons--that is, God-created non-human beings, some of whom chose the path of evil of their own free will. I think I am in the minority on this even in my church. Even my pastor doesn't believe there is a fallen angel called Satan.

The danger of not believing in Satan and his fellow fallen angels is that a person will not take evil, and it's ability to ruin our lives here on Earth and in the afterlife, seriously. Father Gabriele Amorth's writings on the different manifestations of evil are worth a look if you are interested.

ru12

One of my favorite prayers goes something like this: " Dear God please save me... from your followers."

UnixBer

Heh heh. Couldn't resist laughing at that favorite prayer.

GroundhogDay: I agree that religion can be confused with God in many instances. And its meaning differs for people I guess. And yes religion is an institute of Man and what you said about people was quite well put.

When you said Man is given free will by God, that implies the belief in a certain creator. I agree that there is free will and maybe it is even built for/into us by someone or something. Still don't feel right with the word God here.

I think in a similar fashion with that "god-given" self. Or maybe the original/natural self. That which nature/God has given us, and what in today's world is having a hard time under a debris of rules, denial and whatever. So what comes to happiness, it is found innately in a human being already. I agree with that.

And yes a church or any other community can be positive and beneficial for many purposes. Such as AA helping people get and stay sober. To find new friends and likeminded people. And if you like standard christianity and find like-minded people, what difference does someone else's opinion make. So yeah, good things in all I guess.

"The danger of not believing in Satan and his fellow fallen angels is that a person will not take evil, and it's ability to ruin our lives here on Earth and in the afterlife, seriously. Father Gabriele Amorth's writings on the different manifestations of evil are worth a look if you are interested. "

-> Well here, not exactly a quote. IMO the act of believing in Satan and evil beings like that can be a cause of unnecessary fear and stress. Maybe depression. About that thing of ruining a life in the afterlife, I don't believe in one bit. Neither do I believe that Satan or his minions are going to ruin anyone's life here either unless they ask for it or make it happen themselves.
I might take a look at those books. I just don't find it credible that this Satan as so powerful that even after your life on this Earth he can come follow you and lie to you in the afterlife. Don't believe this. But then again it's what I believe in. A brilliant post that, by the way.

Keep on coming with interesting replies.