soberlicious

Often when I'm waiting in line somewhere, I will focus on each of my muscle groups separately. I will observe how I am standing, what parts of me are tensed, how my posture is...when I pay close attention sometimes I find that I am clenching my teeth, furrowing my brow, or breathing shallowly, without even realizing it. I try to pay close attention to my body. I do little mini yoga poses standing in line too. I will take the weight off one foot and stand like that. No one else would even know I'm doing it. Secret yoga haha!

alphaomega

Love it Sober !!

Heck, I've even been known to go all Downward Dog in the middle of a gas station !!

Ain't no shame in our game !!

:@

soberlicious

hahahaaaaa zentastic

oh you know it dude!

fantail

I've been doing yoga almost daily for about four months now. Not the same sequence every time, but all very related to one another, same basic structure, etc.

I've found that having that regular practice has built a short cut for me to different meditative mindsets that I can use during my day. For example, if I'm doing something uncomfortable/arduous (like carrying heavy grocery bags) I visualize in my mind's eye doing a series from the standing portion of my practice. Those sequences are the most demanding endurance-wise, and imagining myself doing them (fully visualizing making the pose, holding it, and then transitioning to the next one, etc) brings me right to that mind set of patience and endurance.

Likewise, thinking of other sequences can be calming, or energizing. It's really cool! I just discovered this by accident a few weeks ago and have been using it since in situations where I can't actually stop what I'm doing.

ru12

I use meditation to quiet my mind, to stop the tyrrany of my internal incessant chatter. I used to use alcohol for a similar effect. Meditation and being present in the now are what have saved my life.

legna

Personally, and as an overeducated Native American, I would suggest that this is an oversimplified characterization. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I mean that sincerely, but I personally do not consider the men and women shamans that I know magical nor do I find their motivation sparked by a desire to get high.

legna

alpha,

When I met my wife I was studying for the monastery which caused a drastic change in plans as you might imagine but I thought I'd pass on two somethings that were passed down to me regarding meditation my the monk who was assisting me in preparation.

First, that thirty minutes of breath meditation specifically, was twice as effective as twenty minutes. Second, that meditation can be addictive as well and it is something that monks are warned about. Which is not to say that they should not pursue meditation of course, simply that it is something that they should be aware of and make an attempt to avoid an attachment to meditation that comes from the lizard brain.

Boleo

During my last days of drinking, drunk felt normal to me. Comfortably numb was so much better than sober and disturbed that I started staying drunk 24x7. I have to admit that when it comes to stopping the chatter in my head, both do the job equally well.

However, I would not say meditation feels "exactly" like being drunk. For one thing, I am totally aware of my surroundings when meditating. I was usually oblivious to my surroundings when drunk. Another difference is I can quit meditating and be 100% functional in just a few seconds. Something that took me at least 24 hours after drinking.

I would describe meditation as having most of the advantages of being drunk while having few of the disadvantages. If I were about to have my leg amputated, meditating would not be as big as an advantage as being drunk.

legna

I'm surprised to hear you say this Boleo; may I ask why you think this way?

Boleo

I can't think of many advantages to drinking at this point in my recovery. However, losing a limb would be more than a bit easier with some form of anesthesia.

I have relapsed enough times to know that it always gets harder to recover each time. I also know that my Spiritual Awakening was triggered by the biggest struggle/surrender cycle of my life. If I were to lose a limb' I have no doubt I could generate a brand new "biggest struggle/surrender cycle of my life" all over again. I am much like the Black Knight:

Monty Python-The Black Knight - YouTube

soberlicious

Do shamans use hallucinogenics? I know that's its possible to have visions without them. I know it's also possible to receive direction from another source (spirit animal for example) without them. A friend of mine told me that

or attachment to anything really I would guess...I know that I have "healthy" activities/hobbies that are attachments. Sometimes I recognize that, and I continue anyway. I know that I may have to pay a price for attaching...sometimes it's worth the suffering...sometimes it's not.

. Drinking didnt stop the chatter in my head...at times it increased it to delusional or paranoid type thinking. It only stopped it when I blacked out or passed out.

Boleo

Could be you were using the wrong formula when drinking. My formula was 12 oz of Vodka every hour till the chatter stopped. 6 oz every hour after that.

legna

Wow, smart friend! Anywho, yes to the idea that many shamans use hallucinogenics. Typically however, those who I know, use them first under the guidance of a more experienced shaman while the former is in the apprenticeship phase. It serves as a roadmap to identify the terrain so to speak.

I know that in my early experience with (non-chemically induced) altered states of consciousness, I would often 'fall out' of these states because my mind would try to make sense out of the experience using familiar paradigms. In other words, questioning what is happening instead of just experiencing the journey, throws one out of the vehicle and back into normal consciousness.

My favorite attachment was not mine, but it too was accepted. Full credit if anyone can place the character: "The full moon of May. The thirteenth day of the fifth month. The year of the Dog."

legna

LOL - that was quite funny, thank you. In regards to my previous question, I have undergone dental surgery without anesthesia while meditating...I would almost like to know whether or not I could handle an amputation that way. Almost. Well, I would like to know whether I could, I just don't want to go through the amputation to find out.

soberlicious

omg I knew you were going to say this! I almost pm'd you about it before you posted this.

I have never done anything close to dental surgery, but I was thinking about how I have been able to use a meditative state when experiencing physical pain. The only experiences I have with it are long intensive tattoo sessions, sometimes up to 6 hours at a time. I have had 5 sittings that long, and it was interesting to use my mind in such a way that I could "rise above" the pain, yet still feel it...I can't really explain...

I just know that I have seen people handle pain differently and people say they have a "high threshold" or a "low threshold" for pain, and I have always wondered if there is an actual difference in the nerve receptors, or if it is in the mind, that some people perceive it differently mentally or learn to override the sensations. If you look at childbirth and Lamaze breathing, same principal. That stuff has always interested me.

And let me add ps side note...I'm not in any way comparing an amputation to a tattoo, because that would be stupid. I was just making an observation about meditation and intense pain.

haha! Yes you're right, I had the wrong formula. I slammed beers until I couldn't physically open them anymore. The last year or so I did a lot of drunk crying/sobbing/lamenting. Guess I had stubborn chatter.

legna

Of course you did.

Just cause someone else might also find it interesting (or I would have pm'd this), after a successful dental surgery without anesthesia - I actually performed the next one myself. It didn't go as well in terms of pain management. I think it could have, but I had a good deal of trouble reconciling paying close attention to what I was doing with the scalpel etc., and allowing the thoughts to pass without attachment. I do think it can be done well though...just not by me...yet.

Actually, you don't need to explain it - I get it.

Me too. I've discovered, over the years, that fear plus pain equals a lot more pain. Dental pain was the worst for me because as the needle went into my palate and my head was against the head rest - I couldn't get away. If the pain became more than I could bear, I wouldn't be able to stop it and that fear made the nerve receptors hyper-sensitive to any indication that I was going to hit my limit. I have found, that for me, controlling my fear works to control pain better than trying to control the pain directly.

Please tell me you wrote this for someone else and didn't think that I wouldn't get this.

Boleo

Beer is definitely the wrong tool for silencing the mind. It just made me sentimental. Even Scotch or Bourbon would turn me into some kind of bar-stool philosopher. After years of experimenting, I found vodka was one of the few drinks to do the job of stopping the brain completly. Everclear was the best novocaine for the brain, it would silence me in mid-sentence, but it was not available in my state.

Nuudawn

Oh my Alpha...I want me some of that! I have been toying (read procrastinating) with the whole meditation thing for quite some time. I have a pretty strong feeling that there's some answers in there for me.

Okay...must....work....on....meditating...sigh.

Boleo

Mindfulness In Plain English

Nuudawn

Thank you Boleo : ) Um can that plain english be reduced to like a paragraph? Or a snappy little rhyme? Just joshin....kinda.