Of Mice and Morons
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Of Mice and Morons
I was out on a first date last night. I was in her car and we were driving to a place we'd planned to eat at. All of a sudden she takes a weird turn and we end up in the parking lot of a very familiar liquor store.
"What are we doing here?" I asked.
"Oh I just want to pick up some wine." She replied.
I nodded my head and explained to her how I would simply wait in the car. She pestered me about coming in to help her look for something good. I explained to her that I don't like wine, don't drink wine, and don't know a thing about wine (which are all completely true). But she wouldn't let up. It was a first date, i'm sure she was trying to get us to do something together, interact. So I told myself (as we all do) that I would simply go in, but not purchase anything. Do I even need to continue? Eventually I drifted over to the vodka section and purchased a bottle.
During the dinner all I could think about was the huge mistake I'd made. I told myself just because I bought alcohol doesn't mean I have to drink it. I could pour it out and everything will be okay (other than the loss of money).
The date didn't go that well. Nothing major happened, we were far too different, with no similar mindset, world-view, or interests - no spark, if you will. So I get home feeling bummed that the date didn't go so well. I started to feel lonely - I've been single for quite a while. I took the bottle into the bathroom to pour it down the sink but I just couldn't do it. Emotionally, I was in a bad place. I was not thinking clearly. Have I been single so long because I drink too much, or do I drink too much because I've been single so long?
If I would have stayed in the car I'm fairly positive I would have made it throughout the night sober. But, for some reason, I felt it odd to tell somebody on a first date - that you don't know very well - you're an alcoholic (a term I'm not very comfortable with as well as a few others on here because I don't feel that alcoholism is a disease, but that's for a different post).
I'm stuck in a rut. As I've mentioned on here before, I can't seem to go more than a few days before giving in. I feel like I have so much more to offer this world if I can just drop the liquor. I am very social, I love a good discussion. Love stories (verbal, books, movies, theater, etc...). Overall i'm a nice guy, when the Mr. Hyde isen't out. I am very loyal and honest. I have a caring personality. I'm fairly well educated. I've studied English and literature. I'm a writer, producer, and creative person. I enjoy classical music and art. I don't see myself as an uneducated, boring person. I guess it all boils down to willpower. A concept which, on the surface, seems so simple. Which is why I feel like such a moron every time I give in.
Time to erase and start again.
"What are we doing here?" I asked.
"Oh I just want to pick up some wine." She replied.
I nodded my head and explained to her how I would simply wait in the car. She pestered me about coming in to help her look for something good. I explained to her that I don't like wine, don't drink wine, and don't know a thing about wine (which are all completely true). But she wouldn't let up. It was a first date, i'm sure she was trying to get us to do something together, interact. So I told myself (as we all do) that I would simply go in, but not purchase anything. Do I even need to continue? Eventually I drifted over to the vodka section and purchased a bottle.
During the dinner all I could think about was the huge mistake I'd made. I told myself just because I bought alcohol doesn't mean I have to drink it. I could pour it out and everything will be okay (other than the loss of money).
The date didn't go that well. Nothing major happened, we were far too different, with no similar mindset, world-view, or interests - no spark, if you will. So I get home feeling bummed that the date didn't go so well. I started to feel lonely - I've been single for quite a while. I took the bottle into the bathroom to pour it down the sink but I just couldn't do it. Emotionally, I was in a bad place. I was not thinking clearly. Have I been single so long because I drink too much, or do I drink too much because I've been single so long?
If I would have stayed in the car I'm fairly positive I would have made it throughout the night sober. But, for some reason, I felt it odd to tell somebody on a first date - that you don't know very well - you're an alcoholic (a term I'm not very comfortable with as well as a few others on here because I don't feel that alcoholism is a disease, but that's for a different post).
I'm stuck in a rut. As I've mentioned on here before, I can't seem to go more than a few days before giving in. I feel like I have so much more to offer this world if I can just drop the liquor. I am very social, I love a good discussion. Love stories (verbal, books, movies, theater, etc...). Overall i'm a nice guy, when the Mr. Hyde isen't out. I am very loyal and honest. I have a caring personality. I'm fairly well educated. I've studied English and literature. I'm a writer, producer, and creative person. I enjoy classical music and art. I don't see myself as an uneducated, boring person. I guess it all boils down to willpower. A concept which, on the surface, seems so simple. Which is why I feel like such a moron every time I give in.
Time to erase and start again.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Nice thread title 
I'm going to have to disagree with you on the willpower thing... and ultimately, the moron thing. So you're educated, creative, a writer, etc... you're still an alcoholic, correct (without even going into the disease theories vs. the others)?
Addiction isn't simple. It's quite complicated. Lots of things going on in the brain, the thinking process, the emotions, and environment.
And instead of erasing and starting again... think of it as a great learning experience. So you've uncovered some ideas here... you had a date with someone who brought up some negative and uncomfortable feelings about yourself as being a drinker and alcoholic... you aren't defined by this, you know. It's just a fact of the matter. And something you are aware of, and dealing with.
So jump back on the horse, and do things a bit differently next time. Don't go into the liquor store.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on the willpower thing... and ultimately, the moron thing. So you're educated, creative, a writer, etc... you're still an alcoholic, correct (without even going into the disease theories vs. the others)?
Addiction isn't simple. It's quite complicated. Lots of things going on in the brain, the thinking process, the emotions, and environment.
And instead of erasing and starting again... think of it as a great learning experience. So you've uncovered some ideas here... you had a date with someone who brought up some negative and uncomfortable feelings about yourself as being a drinker and alcoholic... you aren't defined by this, you know. It's just a fact of the matter. And something you are aware of, and dealing with.
So jump back on the horse, and do things a bit differently next time. Don't go into the liquor store.
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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Originally Posted by Starflyer 
I am very loyal and honest. I have a caring personality. I'm fairly well educated. I've studied English and literature. I'm a writer, producer, and creative person. I enjoy classical music and art. I don't see myself as an uneducated, boring person. I guess it all boils down to willpower. A concept which, on the surface, seems so simple. Which is why I feel like such a moron every time I give in.
You seem bright, but not too educated about alcoholism and addiction. Put down the bottle and treat your recovery like a research paper.
Study. And if you need classroom instruction, there's AA.
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"Alcoholic" Hmm...Just doesn't sit right with me.
I refuse to identify myself with someone who will always have a problem, a dry drunk. I like the idea of hope, that someday I WILL be able to follow a girl into a liquor store and not buy anything. That I will be able to go to a party and not feel any pressure to drink. That I will lay my head on the pillow at night not feeling the cravings.
Now, having said that, I don't have any delusions of grandeur. I do not believe I will get to that point in a week, month, or even year. But I like to think that day exists; instead of accepting the notion I will always have a problem with alcohol for the rest of my life. That's too negative, too dismal for me to dwell upon.
I refuse to identify myself with someone who will always have a problem, a dry drunk. I like the idea of hope, that someday I WILL be able to follow a girl into a liquor store and not buy anything. That I will be able to go to a party and not feel any pressure to drink. That I will lay my head on the pillow at night not feeling the cravings.
Now, having said that, I don't have any delusions of grandeur. I do not believe I will get to that point in a week, month, or even year. But I like to think that day exists; instead of accepting the notion I will always have a problem with alcohol for the rest of my life. That's too negative, too dismal for me to dwell upon.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by doggonecarl
You seem bright, but not too educated about alcoholism and addiction. .
And I don't think you understand what "dry drunk" means either.
Wouldn't it be delusional for you to continue trying to behave as though you don't have a problem, walking into a liquor store on a date when you haven't had enough sobriety to be able to do that? I would think that's a delusion of grandeur.
You've got to crawl before you can walk.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
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I'm fluent in the history and philosophy of the scientific method, and in coordinating large-scale research projects, some of them dealing with alcoholism and other addictions. I'm a PhD clinical psychologist with many years of education, training and experience. I've worked with thousands of people in my career, both clinically and in research settings, most with an array of psychological problems, including addictions. None of this helped me get sober. As Carl wrote, alcoholism is the great equalizer.
I don't know your history, so I don't know whether or not you've been attempting to get sober on your own. If you are, I strongly recommend that you seek help and support beyond this site. I've learned that for most alcoholics, our will power is fine in most aspects of life, except when it comes to alcohol. We are not weak people; we suffer from an inability to control our drinking. On my own, I never would have stopped.
I tried to stop many different ways, but nothing worked until I actively participated in AA's program of recovery, the Big Book Twelve Steps. I know AA is not for everyone, but today there are many ways to get sober that don't involve a spiritual remedy.
I don't know your history, so I don't know whether or not you've been attempting to get sober on your own. If you are, I strongly recommend that you seek help and support beyond this site. I've learned that for most alcoholics, our will power is fine in most aspects of life, except when it comes to alcohol. We are not weak people; we suffer from an inability to control our drinking. On my own, I never would have stopped.
I tried to stop many different ways, but nothing worked until I actively participated in AA's program of recovery, the Big Book Twelve Steps. I know AA is not for everyone, but today there are many ways to get sober that don't involve a spiritual remedy.
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It's totally plausible that I don't. I don't claim to know everything about alcoholism or addiction. I have much to learn. Also, I don't plan to continue on acting like I don't have a problem, because I do. And yes, for now, I need to avoid situations where alcohol is involved. On the back end, I also need to focus on my mental health. Depression can be more of a motivator to drink than being in a situation. For now, I don't claim to be able to do any of the things I previously mentioned. One day I hope to. But right now I do have a problem and I do need to be vigilant.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
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Originally Posted by Starflyer
"Alcoholic" Hmm...Just doesn't sit right with me.
I use the word 'alcoholic' as a way of identifying with my relationship with alcohol and in no way to suggest 'hopelessness.' Even AA tells us that "the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking." There's no requirement that you call yourself an alcoholic.
For me being an alcoholic means that I can't control my drinking, that when I start drinking I cannot stop on my own, and that when I continue drinking I always end up alone, despite the best efforts of people in my life to help me.
The AA Big Book is also very clear about what we call "recovery." The book tells us that by "following these simple steps, we are recovered from a hopeless state of mind and body." We do not remain "in recovery." Any other interpretation of this is not based on AA literature.
I've learned that if I continue to think the way I do and take care of myself the way I do, I need not ever drink again.
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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Seeing as you don't like the word alcoholic I would recommend checking out Rational Recovery (AVRT). The slight differences in how we perceive certain terms can make the all the difference between recovery and staying stuck I think. You absolutely do not have to identify with that term to recover.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NC
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Originally Posted by Starflyer
"Alcoholic" Hmm...Just doesn't sit right with me.
I refuse to identify myself with someone who will always have a problem, a dry drunk. I like the idea of hope, that someday I WILL be able to follow a girl into a liquor store and not buy anything. That I will be able to go to a party and not feel any pressure to drink. That I will lay my head on the pillow at night not feeling the cravings.
Now, having said that, I don't have any delusions of grandeur. I do not believe I will get to that point in a week, month, or even year. But I like to think that day exists; instead of accepting the notion I will always have a problem with alcohol for the rest of my life. That's too negative, too dismal for me to dwell upon.
I refuse to identify myself with someone who will always have a problem, a dry drunk. I like the idea of hope, that someday I WILL be able to follow a girl into a liquor store and not buy anything. That I will be able to go to a party and not feel any pressure to drink. That I will lay my head on the pillow at night not feeling the cravings.
Now, having said that, I don't have any delusions of grandeur. I do not believe I will get to that point in a week, month, or even year. But I like to think that day exists; instead of accepting the notion I will always have a problem with alcohol for the rest of my life. That's too negative, too dismal for me to dwell upon.
Those are not delusions of grandeur, but they are delusions none the less. You can get to the place of not having a problem with alcohol, but quite likely you will never not have a problem drinking it. Whether that makes you an "alcoholic" is irrelevant, what matters is whether you have found a solution that enables you to not drink and live well.
There are lots of ways to get sober, and many people here use more than one tool to get there. But the tools are useless until you find the ones that work for you and actually employ them. Personally, I have found that I need to do something for my sobriety every day, even 3+ years sober. Nothing earth shattering, but it takes commitment on a daily basis because you never know which day is going to really put your back to the wall until it's too late.
Trust me on this, though: I am certain that sobriety is not what you imagine. I fully expected to be a miserable SOB, spending the rest of my days white knuckling it whenever things got complicated. The reality was this: the first few months were hard, but after the first six months sobriety became my new normal, and I grew to love the life it allowed.
You can do this, Starflyer, but whatever tools you have used so far are not equal to the task. Dust yourself off and try again, the alternative is too dismal to dwell upon.
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I've heard on here quite a bit that it's not recommended to get into a new relationship for the first year after getting sober.
Part of the reasoning for this is that if something goes wrong with the new relationship, it may put us at risk for relapse.
Have you considered working on your sobriety and THEN looking to date??
If I was dating, the date would be over for me once they insisted on going to the liquor store. I'm a non-drinker now and I have no desire to date anyone who can't make it through a date without wine.
By needing to go to the liquor store before dinner she is basically saying to you: "I have an alcohol problem." I would rather tell somebody on a first date that I don't drink because it's caused previous problems in my life than say to them, "I need a bottle of wine to get through this date/day because I have an active alcohol problem."
I would rather tell people I don't drink because alcohol causes me problems than have a problem with alcohol because I'm not willing to tell someone that I don't drink.
Part of the reasoning for this is that if something goes wrong with the new relationship, it may put us at risk for relapse.
Have you considered working on your sobriety and THEN looking to date??
If I was dating, the date would be over for me once they insisted on going to the liquor store. I'm a non-drinker now and I have no desire to date anyone who can't make it through a date without wine.
By needing to go to the liquor store before dinner she is basically saying to you: "I have an alcohol problem." I would rather tell somebody on a first date that I don't drink because it's caused previous problems in my life than say to them, "I need a bottle of wine to get through this date/day because I have an active alcohol problem."
I would rather tell people I don't drink because alcohol causes me problems than have a problem with alcohol because I'm not willing to tell someone that I don't drink.
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I'm feeling a lot of different emotions today. I'm trying to not get so angry with myself. Anger is a powerful emotion, one I don't need to experience (especially right now). Lots of things to dwell on. I'm going to keep doing research and read a lot. I also need to relax and stay calm. I'm worried about the upcoming 4th of July. I made plans with friends and family, plans we make every year, practically. I know for a fact a lot of beer will be available. I have always drank in the past. I don't think I'm up for the challenge of not drinking (not to mention all of the comments and questions from others), so I'm contemplating simply not going. Which bums me out because it stinks to celebrate a holiday alone.
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In her defense, she didn't need to purchase wine for the date. She doesn't drink. The wine was a birthday present for a friend of hers. That's why she didn't know what wine was "good". She was leaving town early this morning to a nearby town to celebrate said friend's birthday and the store would've been closed by the time the date was over (and in the morning, too).
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I like the idea of hope, that someday I WILL be able to follow a girl into a liquor store and not buy anything. That I will be able to go to a party and not feel any pressure to drink. That I will lay my head on the pillow at night not feeling the cravings.
Starflyer,
guess what? i can do all those things you mention there. no illusions of grandeur. just a fact.yes, hope is good! and there is no reason you can't get to the place where you can do those things.
that you can't do them right this minute....it's good you're finding that out. means you can plan around it.
most of us decide to forgo certain events for the first little while.
getting and staying sober does require some effort and some work.
and guess what else? i can do those things you mention and yet i'm an alcoholic. which i never wanted to be.
and my knuckles aren't white.
somebody mentioned "erase".
you'll see different opinions on that. my own is that erasing is the biggest disservice you can do yourself. realizing who i was/am with regards to this thing....i couldn't have done it by erasing past experiences. i could only do it by " truly getting" them.
it's only July 2. lots of time to come up with alternate plans for the 4th.
Starflyer,
guess what? i can do all those things you mention there. no illusions of grandeur. just a fact.yes, hope is good! and there is no reason you can't get to the place where you can do those things.
that you can't do them right this minute....it's good you're finding that out. means you can plan around it.
most of us decide to forgo certain events for the first little while.
getting and staying sober does require some effort and some work.
and guess what else? i can do those things you mention and yet i'm an alcoholic. which i never wanted to be.
and my knuckles aren't white.somebody mentioned "erase".
you'll see different opinions on that. my own is that erasing is the biggest disservice you can do yourself. realizing who i was/am with regards to this thing....i couldn't have done it by erasing past experiences. i could only do it by " truly getting" them.
it's only July 2. lots of time to come up with alternate plans for the 4th.
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Here's hoping for me to see that day! I have the next few days off, which are always rough - "Who cares if I have a hangover! It's not like I have to work tomorrow!" I'm going to ride it out by staying home and focusing on what I need to do in order to stay sober for more than a couple of days (the rest of my life, ideally, but that's the big picture). I started reading a new book, and just recently borrowed a ton of movies I've never seen from a family member. So I've got some distractions available.
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Okay...I too love the name of this thread...just had to read it.
Something is just not sitting right with me about this woman needing to go to a liquor store to get wine on your way to a restaurant. You say it wasn't for her..I guess I have to believe you. Something is also not right that despite your protests she insisted you go in with her. I'm only wondering about what your gut was telling you when all this was going on....and that you ignored yourself. That's where the problem started...no one should be able to get you to do something you insisted you did not want to.
I'm not super cool with the word alcoholic either..but who cares really..alcohol and me are a bad match. Alcohol is the thief I invited in daily.
"to thine own self be true"
Always...
Something is just not sitting right with me about this woman needing to go to a liquor store to get wine on your way to a restaurant. You say it wasn't for her..I guess I have to believe you. Something is also not right that despite your protests she insisted you go in with her. I'm only wondering about what your gut was telling you when all this was going on....and that you ignored yourself. That's where the problem started...no one should be able to get you to do something you insisted you did not want to.
I'm not super cool with the word alcoholic either..but who cares really..alcohol and me are a bad match. Alcohol is the thief I invited in daily.
"to thine own self be true"
Always...
Recovering ostrich
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida
Posts: 2,551
How about calling yourself a soberist? On a quest to live life with no mind altering anythings?
Next time, try to remember what happens when you do drink, how you will feel after, in the morning.
Next time, try to remember what happens when you do drink, how you will feel after, in the morning.
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