Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
Yes, endgame, I don't disagree that getting some relief is always a good thing, I was just pointing out that the insomnia may well be a side effect of alcohol withdrawal. I think sometimes people panic and think omg this is never going to end. For many of us, thankfully, it does end. But I do realize that others suffer well beyond the detox period. My mom has suffered from insomnia her whole life and alcohol is not a factor with her. She is not a drinker.
I was just like you, in that booze knocked me out but I never felt rested. I think I read that alcohol interferes with REM sleep or something? Can't remember now...but in any event, alcohol is not an effective treatment for insomnia, as restorative sleep will continue to elude as long as booze is present.
Sleep deprivation can be frightening. I experienced it briefly but intensely (about 6 months) when my triplets were born. It was extremely difficult to function at times.
I was just like you, in that booze knocked me out but I never felt rested. I think I read that alcohol interferes with REM sleep or something? Can't remember now...but in any event, alcohol is not an effective treatment for insomnia, as restorative sleep will continue to elude as long as booze is present.
Sleep deprivation can be frightening. I experienced it briefly but intensely (about 6 months) when my triplets were born. It was extremely difficult to function at times.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Yeah, alcohol does disrupt REM sleep and natural sleep patterns generally. This results in dysfunction in major cognitive processes such as memory, attention and concentration, which, in turn disrupts our emotional life. Though when taken in small amounts (I don't even know what that is), alcohol can actually help REM and facilitate deeper sleep.
Another problem is the high amount of sugar in alcohol and the way that our bodies metabolize all that sugar. People often report waking up with what may be described as a "sugar high" after sleeping/being unconscious for a couple of hours. In my case, I treated early awakening with more alcohol.
I have a special place in my heart for people who struggle with insomnia since I've struggled with it for virtually my entire life.
Another problem is the high amount of sugar in alcohol and the way that our bodies metabolize all that sugar. People often report waking up with what may be described as a "sugar high" after sleeping/being unconscious for a couple of hours. In my case, I treated early awakening with more alcohol.
I have a special place in my heart for people who struggle with insomnia since I've struggled with it for virtually my entire life.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
I've had a hard time going to bed for as long as I can remember. I just WANT to stay up......all the time. Doesn't matter if I got 2 hrs last night or 12......I kinda hate going to bed.
Early sobriety (I'll call it the first year or so) it was particularly tough to go to bed and equally tough to fall asleep. Somewhere along the way I heard someone talking about the 10th step promises in an AA meeting. They referred to the one that reads "And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone—." It occurred to me that I was "fighting" sleeping. The next thought was "maybe I shouldn't be fighting my insomnia and even though all of 'them' seem to go to bed and sleep at night maybe I should just stay up, do something, and skip sleeping." So..... I started listening to my body and stopped trying to conform to what everyone else was doing. I started staying up if I couldn't sleep. Sure, I might be a little tired at work in the morning but at least I wasn't full of anxiety and feeling guilty about not being able to sleep.
Like others have said.....it more-or-less straightened out over time.
To this day though, several years into recovery and at 44yrs old, I still don't usually get more than 4 or 5hrs sleep per night. Evidently that's normal for ME.
Early sobriety (I'll call it the first year or so) it was particularly tough to go to bed and equally tough to fall asleep. Somewhere along the way I heard someone talking about the 10th step promises in an AA meeting. They referred to the one that reads "And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone—." It occurred to me that I was "fighting" sleeping. The next thought was "maybe I shouldn't be fighting my insomnia and even though all of 'them' seem to go to bed and sleep at night maybe I should just stay up, do something, and skip sleeping." So..... I started listening to my body and stopped trying to conform to what everyone else was doing. I started staying up if I couldn't sleep. Sure, I might be a little tired at work in the morning but at least I wasn't full of anxiety and feeling guilty about not being able to sleep.
Like others have said.....it more-or-less straightened out over time.
To this day though, several years into recovery and at 44yrs old, I still don't usually get more than 4 or 5hrs sleep per night. Evidently that's normal for ME.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 5,678
Originally Posted by Starflyer 
I've been drinking just about 10 years, Dee. If I try to have an alcohol free night I end up tossing and turning in bed for God only knows. There is a certain moment when you stop staring at the clock, and it starts staring back at you.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 151
I used to have major insomnia problems, not so much achieving sleep as I would sleep for 2-3 hours and then be up the rest of the night, or fading in and out of consciousness.
my method right now is to a) stay away from screens (TV, computer, phone, etc) for at least an hour, preferably two before bed; b) take a shower within an hour of sleeping; c) reading for 30 minutes to an hour before sleeping. I also take 6mg of over-the-counter melatonin about 15-30 mins before attempting to sleep.
the most important thing is to build some sort of routine and stay away from the screens. 'sleep hygiene'
my method right now is to a) stay away from screens (TV, computer, phone, etc) for at least an hour, preferably two before bed; b) take a shower within an hour of sleeping; c) reading for 30 minutes to an hour before sleeping. I also take 6mg of over-the-counter melatonin about 15-30 mins before attempting to sleep.
the most important thing is to build some sort of routine and stay away from the screens. 'sleep hygiene'
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Originally Posted by aNewEternity
the most important thing is to build some sort of routine and stay away from the screens. 'sleep hygiene'
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 36
I use a combination of Melatonin, Valerian root and Chamomile tea. I have also used Klonopin every now and then for more than ten years. It's not something I've ever abused, but I did notice that whenever I used it for two weeks in a row, I'd have withdrawals. I tapered off within a week, and nowadays use it maybe 3 times a week.
Ymmv
Ymmv
2 lives in 1
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 19
In the very beginning of my sobriety insomnia was a killer. I wasn't able to stop all of the racing thoughts. Prayer helped immensely as well as listening to relaxing musics or rain sounds while I went to sleep.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Getting to where I want to be
Posts: 502
Originally Posted by soberlicious
Yes, endgame, I don't disagree that getting some relief is always a good thing, I was just pointing out that the insomnia may well be a side effect of alcohol withdrawal. I think sometimes people panic and think omg this is never going to end. For many of us, thankfully, it does end. But I do realize that others suffer well beyond the detox period. My mom has suffered from insomnia her whole life and alcohol is not a factor with her. She is not a drinker.
I was just like you, in that booze knocked me out but I never felt rested. I think I read that alcohol interferes with REM sleep or something? Can't remember now...but in any event, alcohol is not an effective treatment for insomnia, as restorative sleep will continue to elude as long as booze is present.
Sleep deprivation can be frightening. I experienced it briefly but intensely (about 6 months) when my triplets were born. It was extremely difficult to function at times.
I was just like you, in that booze knocked me out but I never felt rested. I think I read that alcohol interferes with REM sleep or something? Can't remember now...but in any event, alcohol is not an effective treatment for insomnia, as restorative sleep will continue to elude as long as booze is present.
Sleep deprivation can be frightening. I experienced it briefly but intensely (about 6 months) when my triplets were born. It was extremely difficult to function at times.
This high level of REM, which is associated with dreams, leads to vivid, realistic dreaming and a lot of it. The normal level is 20-some percent. I found I was sleeping pretty well a couple weeks in and I'm sleeping a solid 7-8 hours now.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 94
i've used melatonin a few times to promote sleep. i've also had a sleep study which revealed i have severe sleep apnea. if you're still not sleeping better after being sober for a while seeing a sleep doctor might be a good idea and a sleep study can provide great insight into problems like apnea and problems with sleep stages.
SR Fan
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 7,910
I can empathize, as I've had bouts of insomnia since my teens and it got worse with age. It was one of the things that attracted me to alcohol, which backfired, of course.....
If it's related to withdrawal, it should resolve itself, but if not, there ARE options out there. I sought help from a psychiatrist who specializes in addiction. Good luck!
If it's related to withdrawal, it should resolve itself, but if not, there ARE options out there. I sought help from a psychiatrist who specializes in addiction. Good luck!
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
Originally Posted by john44
After abusing alcohol which denies REM, the brain makes up for it by going into REM for up to 60-70% (this is what I remember from a class in rehab).
This high level of REM, which is associated with dreams, leads to vivid, realistic dreaming and a lot of it. The normal level is 20-some percent.
This high level of REM, which is associated with dreams, leads to vivid, realistic dreaming and a lot of it. The normal level is 20-some percent.
After a few years of good sleep, my sleep patterns starting changing again. That was due to hormonal changes of peri menopause...so for women that can be a factor too.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Getting to where I want to be
Posts: 502
Oh and also, the first few days in rehab, they recommended a drug called Trazadone for sleep. My first night there, I didn't sleep at all. The second night, I took Trazadone, fell asleep but had the weirdest dreams I've ever had in my life. I took the stuff two more days and stopped. Dreams were weird for awhile but by 2 weeks or so I was sleeping well.
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