From the WSJ -- Why She Drinks: Women and Alcohol Abuse
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From the WSJ -- Why She Drinks: Women and Alcohol Abuse
Thought some of you (men and women) might find this article interesting:
Why She Drinks: Women and Alcohol Abuse - WSJ.com
This bit kinda leapt out at me:
Gallup pollsters have repeatedly found that the more educated and well off a woman is, the more likely she is to imbibe.
Why She Drinks: Women and Alcohol Abuse - WSJ.com
This bit kinda leapt out at me:
Gallup pollsters have repeatedly found that the more educated and well off a woman is, the more likely she is to imbibe.
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I don't like that that part of the article is what jumped out at you. It makes me worry you're coming to a false conclusion about why that correlation exists. We shouldn't entertain the idea that women are drinking because they're becoming more educated ;p
Surveys are not ideal for getting this information. You only know what people admit, and sometimes they can be very biased depending on how random the sample was. Details can be omitted which can make statistics deceiving. It's fine to say that our culture has changed and alcohol is becoming more acceptable for women to drink than it was in the past. That TV programs featuring middle-upper class white women getting together and drinking wine is giving many people a behaviour to emulate is plausible and fairly convincing. But the issue is complex and involves a lot of factors.
That the article carefully avoids telling you their percentages of men who drink vs women who drink (they just say how much it has risen or decreased) is annoying and shows they are pursuing a bit of an angle. I don't like that they phrase things as biological conclusions which are clearly cultural, like the part about men feeling more powerful and women feeling more sensual. Especially if those were survey answers, what else was a person going to choose but the socially indoctrinated one, regardless of actual feeling?
I'll take the point about wine being definitely marketed to women, but that's about it. Alcoholism in both genders, though, is an embarrassing thing, and this article is confusing itself by being about alcoholism by siting stats about 'regular drinkers' instead of just stats about 'alcoholics' who might be a much smaller subset of those regular drinkers. In short, it feels too sensationalist and aimed at people looking for excuses, by giving only numbers and anecdotes which appeal to that desire. I think excuses and reasons to feel helpless is not really helpful to those who want to beat alcoholism.
I have opinions and they might be wrong, but there you are
I'm sure their internet/(white)women's magazine polls didn't reach all the poor, uneducated people who don't have access to them but are drinking their problems away with cheap liquor anyway.
Surveys are not ideal for getting this information. You only know what people admit, and sometimes they can be very biased depending on how random the sample was. Details can be omitted which can make statistics deceiving. It's fine to say that our culture has changed and alcohol is becoming more acceptable for women to drink than it was in the past. That TV programs featuring middle-upper class white women getting together and drinking wine is giving many people a behaviour to emulate is plausible and fairly convincing. But the issue is complex and involves a lot of factors.
That the article carefully avoids telling you their percentages of men who drink vs women who drink (they just say how much it has risen or decreased) is annoying and shows they are pursuing a bit of an angle. I don't like that they phrase things as biological conclusions which are clearly cultural, like the part about men feeling more powerful and women feeling more sensual. Especially if those were survey answers, what else was a person going to choose but the socially indoctrinated one, regardless of actual feeling?
I'll take the point about wine being definitely marketed to women, but that's about it. Alcoholism in both genders, though, is an embarrassing thing, and this article is confusing itself by being about alcoholism by siting stats about 'regular drinkers' instead of just stats about 'alcoholics' who might be a much smaller subset of those regular drinkers. In short, it feels too sensationalist and aimed at people looking for excuses, by giving only numbers and anecdotes which appeal to that desire. I think excuses and reasons to feel helpless is not really helpful to those who want to beat alcoholism.
I have opinions and they might be wrong, but there you are
I'm sure their internet/(white)women's magazine polls didn't reach all the poor, uneducated people who don't have access to them but are drinking their problems away with cheap liquor anyway.
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Interesting article MeSo. I notice the article does not flinch from questioning the efficacy of AA and 12-step programs. One paragraph stood out:
BTW, the WSJ article is an excerpt from Gabrielle Glaser's book, Why Women Drink—And How They Can Regain Control
"In Europe, Hong Kong and elsewhere in the industrialized world, clinicians treat alcohol-use disorders with a variety of techniques developed in the nearly eight decades since the founding of A.A. (Researchers favor the term "alcohol-use disorder," which encompasses a range of severity, over "alcoholism.") Many combine different behavioral therapies with medications such as naltrexone and topiramate, which help block cravings. Both drugs have proved to be effective in helping patients abstain or moderate. Studies around the world have found that for those who are not severely alcohol-dependent, controlled drinking is possible. Advocates of the 12-step program reject these findings and continue to maintain that abstinence is the only remedy".
I wish we would see more of this questioning in the mainstream media. AA and the 12-steps are so imbued in our culture that the efficacy of these programs is simply accepted and rarely questioned. That attitude only serves to stifle research and the development of more effective or adjunct treatments.BTW, the WSJ article is an excerpt from Gabrielle Glaser's book, Why Women Drink—And How They Can Regain Control
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Originally Posted by Che 
I don't like that they phrase things as biological conclusions which are clearly cultural, like the part about men feeling more powerful and women feeling more sensual. Especially if those were survey answers, what else was a person going to choose but the socially indoctrinated one, regardless of actual feeling?
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It is after midnight so,
I didn't like the article.
We must stop educating them wenches.
Give 'em drugs.
And, moderate!
Yea, coz that really works.
I also lost my wallet so haven't got the 8 grand it takes, so I won't feel "powerless".
I didn't like the article.
We must stop educating them wenches.
Give 'em drugs.
And, moderate!
Yea, coz that really works.
I also lost my wallet so haven't got the 8 grand it takes, so I won't feel "powerless".
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Originally Posted by Che
I don't like that that part of the article is what jumped out at you. It makes me worry you're coming to a false conclusion about why that correlation exists. We shouldn't entertain the idea that women are drinking because they're becoming more educated ;p
I think what leapt out at me more than the "educated" element was the "well off" element. Rightly or wrongly, alcoholism so often seems associated with the low-income demographic and with all the stressors that come with having to struggle financially.
Alcoholism obviously cuts across all kinds of social boundaries and income levels. Still strikes me as interesting that this poll found not that "well off" women are AS likely as to imbibe, but more so. Although now that I look at it again it says simply "imbibe," and not drink to excess or suffer from alcoholism or problem drinking. So as far as that goes, maybe not so interesting or surprising as I first thought.
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What often goes unspoken is the tremendous pressures that many women suffer in their attempts at being a good wife and mother, with or without a job or a career.
In the 1960s and '70s, Valium was the drug of choice for many housewives in coping with the boredom and challenges of being a mother. This was long before married women in the work force was a common occurrence. Valium had various nicknames at that time, including "mother's little helpers."
Withdrawing from Valium is so painful, particularly when people abruptly discontinue use, that many became hooked and/or used alcohol as a substitute. The stories of so many women who became addicted to Valium during that period remain as "mother's dirty secret."
In the 1960s and '70s, Valium was the drug of choice for many housewives in coping with the boredom and challenges of being a mother. This was long before married women in the work force was a common occurrence. Valium had various nicknames at that time, including "mother's little helpers."
Withdrawing from Valium is so painful, particularly when people abruptly discontinue use, that many became hooked and/or used alcohol as a substitute. The stories of so many women who became addicted to Valium during that period remain as "mother's dirty secret."
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The "cocktail playdate" is a definite thing where I live. And yes, "book clubs" are really just wine-binging parties (with elegant appetizers).
The part of the article that stood out to me, which is something I have never heard spoken or written about, is the tendency of male AA members to take advantage of vulnerable females. That happened to me at my very first AA meeting when I was 25 years old. A young male veteran offered to go over some literature with me (I was clearly nervous) and then preceded to put the moves on me (he didn't just ask me out, he tried to kiss me right there on a dark stoop outside a church in NYC. It really shook me and made me question whether or not I wanted to return. Ultimately, I did return and I found AA to be undeniably helpful (there are always creeps in any organization).
I don't really know what the author's point was in bringing that up, just that it is something women in recovery need to be mindful of (and all-women meetings could be the answer for some women though I always preferred co-ed meetings anyway). It would be wrong to state that AA is a fellowship that is ultimately destructive to women, as if succumbing to a higher power makes women feel more powerless. That's total B.S.
The part of the article that stood out to me, which is something I have never heard spoken or written about, is the tendency of male AA members to take advantage of vulnerable females. That happened to me at my very first AA meeting when I was 25 years old. A young male veteran offered to go over some literature with me (I was clearly nervous) and then preceded to put the moves on me (he didn't just ask me out, he tried to kiss me right there on a dark stoop outside a church in NYC. It really shook me and made me question whether or not I wanted to return. Ultimately, I did return and I found AA to be undeniably helpful (there are always creeps in any organization).
I don't really know what the author's point was in bringing that up, just that it is something women in recovery need to be mindful of (and all-women meetings could be the answer for some women though I always preferred co-ed meetings anyway). It would be wrong to state that AA is a fellowship that is ultimately destructive to women, as if succumbing to a higher power makes women feel more powerless. That's total B.S.
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I got a chuckle from one thing in the video. The interviewer mentioned that some doctors are now calling it "alcohol use disorder" instead of alcoholism. LOL!
I think I'm going to try that in my next AA meeting.
"Hi my name is grungehead and I have an alcohol use disorder"
I think I'm going to try that in my next AA meeting.
"Hi my name is grungehead and I have an alcohol use disorder"
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Originally Posted by WhiteFeathers
The "cocktail playdate" is a definite thing where I live. And yes, "book clubs" are really just wine-binging parties (with elegant appetizers).
The part of the article that stood out to me, which is something I have never heard spoken or written about, is the tendency of male AA members to take advantage of vulnerable females. That happened to me at my very first AA meeting when I was 25 years old. A young male veteran offered to go over some literature with me (I was clearly nervous) and then preceded to put the moves on me (he didn't just ask me out, he tried to kiss me right there on a dark stoop outside a church in NYC. It really shook me and made me question whether or not I wanted to return. Ultimately, I did return and I found AA to be undeniably helpful (there are always creeps in any organization).
I don't really know what the author's point was in bringing that up, just that it is something women in recovery need to be mindful of (and all-women meetings could be the answer for some women though I always preferred co-ed meetings anyway). It would be wrong to state that AA is a fellowship that is ultimately destructive to women, as if succumbing to a higher power makes women feel more powerless. That's total B.S.
The part of the article that stood out to me, which is something I have never heard spoken or written about, is the tendency of male AA members to take advantage of vulnerable females. That happened to me at my very first AA meeting when I was 25 years old. A young male veteran offered to go over some literature with me (I was clearly nervous) and then preceded to put the moves on me (he didn't just ask me out, he tried to kiss me right there on a dark stoop outside a church in NYC. It really shook me and made me question whether or not I wanted to return. Ultimately, I did return and I found AA to be undeniably helpful (there are always creeps in any organization).
I don't really know what the author's point was in bringing that up, just that it is something women in recovery need to be mindful of (and all-women meetings could be the answer for some women though I always preferred co-ed meetings anyway). It would be wrong to state that AA is a fellowship that is ultimately destructive to women, as if succumbing to a higher power makes women feel more powerless. That's total B.S.
Unfortunately, he gets to some women before they can be warned. He used to go to the local detox center meetings, and befriend the young women there, at a most scary, vulnerable time in there lives, the first days of sobriety. Finally, he was banned, because it is a private center.
Sorry if I'm getting off topic, but this just makes me so angry, because it can drive people away from AA, people who need it.
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Originally Posted by Grungehead
I got a chuckle from one thing in the video. The interviewer mentioned that some doctors are now calling it "alcohol use disorder" instead of alcoholism. LOL!
I think I'm going to try that in my next AA meeting.
"Hi my name is grungehead and I have an alcohol use disorder"
I think I'm going to try that in my next AA meeting.
"Hi my name is grungehead and I have an alcohol use disorder"
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