Alcoholism...a disease?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,949
I'm all for AA if it helps a person stay sober. It has a monopoly on the live recovery methods. I don't think calling a doctor names because he doesn't agree with it is very tolerant or open minded. If something is basically the only available recovery method for most people and has been proven to have a worse recovery rate then people using no recovery method, yes that's true, I think their should be people rethinking the establishment.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
theres always the ability of individuals that have a problem with any recovery method not workin:
start a new one. theres room for it.
its pretty sad when recovery rates come up, its AA that is attacked. im reading some threads here of people using other recovery methods and they "relapsed." and even poeple using no recovery method at all "relapsing."
start a new one. theres room for it.
its pretty sad when recovery rates come up, its AA that is attacked. im reading some threads here of people using other recovery methods and they "relapsed." and even poeple using no recovery method at all "relapsing."
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern Us
Posts: 1,366
Recovery rates are very hard to measure. What outcome is considered success? Is only permenant abstinence a success? If someone goes from driving drunk daily to only getting drunk at home, once a month, and never driving drunk again: is that success or failure?
AA does help SOME people. Some people get sicker in AA. Some die while trying their damn best to follow what is written in the Big Book. I'm sure we all know people that were regulars in AA that have died from drinking. I sure do. And to me it doesn't matter as much if they failed AA or AA failed them. What matters is that they couldn't stay sober following AA's suggestions. I'm glad that AA is there and I'm glad that there are other things for the 'constitutionally incapable' like me.
AA does help SOME people. Some people get sicker in AA. Some die while trying their damn best to follow what is written in the Big Book. I'm sure we all know people that were regulars in AA that have died from drinking. I sure do. And to me it doesn't matter as much if they failed AA or AA failed them. What matters is that they couldn't stay sober following AA's suggestions. I'm glad that AA is there and I'm glad that there are other things for the 'constitutionally incapable' like me.
Recovering
Join Date: May 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,361
Does AA work? An impartial view.....
Does Alcoholics Anonymous Work?: Scientific American
Bottom line: In a large study about 20% maintained sobriety for 12 months in AA. Overall the AA group achieved 80% alcohol-free dyas. That compared well with two other therapies in the same trial.
We have to be a little careful here and avoid the risk of begging the question. We can say "it works for those who stick with it". But that's rather like saying maintaining sobriety works for people who maintain sobriety.
AA looks to be among the best, if not the best, approach. But there is obviously still an awful lot of people who struggle to maintain sobriety even in AA. Let's pray that treatments continue to develop and improve - by standing on the shoulders of giants like Bill Wilson.
Does Alcoholics Anonymous Work?: Scientific American
Bottom line: In a large study about 20% maintained sobriety for 12 months in AA. Overall the AA group achieved 80% alcohol-free dyas. That compared well with two other therapies in the same trial.
We have to be a little careful here and avoid the risk of begging the question. We can say "it works for those who stick with it". But that's rather like saying maintaining sobriety works for people who maintain sobriety.
AA looks to be among the best, if not the best, approach. But there is obviously still an awful lot of people who struggle to maintain sobriety even in AA. Let's pray that treatments continue to develop and improve - by standing on the shoulders of giants like Bill Wilson.
Recognizes the Beast
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: In the kitchen, cooking up a storm
Posts: 704
Come on guys. Insulting others recovery methods resolves nothing and helps no of us here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc--dFFp7mY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc--dFFp7mY
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bklyn. NY
Posts: 1,859
Originally Posted by Talana 
I am an alcoholic and I don't see it as a disease. I see it as stupidity on my part.
It was my CHOICE to drink. Nobody forced me, I made bad choice after bad choice. I think a lot of people hide behind that word.
"I can't help it, it's a disease." I don't believe it is.
It was my CHOICE to drink. Nobody forced me, I made bad choice after bad choice. I think a lot of people hide behind that word.
"I can't help it, it's a disease." I don't believe it is.
1000 Post Club
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,284
Originally Posted by Joe Nerv
Ya know, outside of this Southpark episode Abstinence Violation Effect - YouTube , which is clearly making fun of AA and alcoholism... I'm not sure I ever actually met anybody who used the fact that alcoholism is labeled as a disease as justification to drink. Quite certain actually that I haven't.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bklyn. NY
Posts: 1,859
Originally Posted by Justfor1
Read some of my posts. I've blamed everyone and everything for my drinking. Including the fact that I had a "disease" so I was destined to relapse.
1000 Post Club
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,284
Regardless if alcoholism is a disease or not, I feel that being labeled a "alcoholic" can be bring great shame upon the person. The stigma of "alcoholism" is as great today as it was 50 years ago.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gulf Coast, Florida USA
Posts: 5,731
Originally Posted by Justfor1
The truth about addiction is that it is very complex and a one "size fits all" solution doesn't work.
Good Luck
Good Luck
It worked for u for 10 years didn't it? If not what did? Do it!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bklyn. NY
Posts: 1,859
Originally Posted by Justfor1
Regardless if alcoholism is a disease or not, I feel that being labeled a "alcoholic" can be bring great shame upon the person. The stigma of "alcoholism" is as great today as it was 50 years ago.
And just for the record, I was never a fan of the disease concept... about 15 years ago road rage was also labeled a disease. They're man made labels, not scientific facts. Whether it is or isn't a disease has no bearing whatsoever on my recovery. I really don't care much what people consider it. I think people should define it as whatever helps them to stay sober best.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gulf Coast, Florida USA
Posts: 5,731
Originally Posted by Justfor1
Regardless if alcoholism is a disease or not, I feel that being labeled a "alcoholic" can be bring great shame upon the person. The stigma of "alcoholism" is as great today as it was 50 years ago.
About the shame thing, what else are people to think? , their not gonna say Alcoholic and have a angel with a halo in mind. In my opinion their is shame in being an alcoholic if you are not treating it.
Alcohol abuse is one of the leading causes of accidents from domestic abuse to traffic related incidents. Alcohol increases the risk of accidents at home and work, and of accidents involving fires and drownings.
Around one in three fires are caused by people under the influence of alcohol. And two-thirds of people who are admitted to hospital or die from burns have been drinking . Between a quarter and half of all adult drowning victims have alcohol in their bloodstream .
Even you mentioned that you didn't care if you drove drunk and it was nobody's business. How is society supposed to respond to such a flippant attitude.
I completely understand why there is a stigma attached to alcoholics and if there weren't I imagine many of us wouldn't hit bottom and get help.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
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4. No Flaming: Posting of any content with the intention of disrupting the forum or inflaming members-be it on someone's person, religious beliefs, race, national background, sexual orientation, or recovery program. This includes flaming, flame baiting, registration of multiple accounts or impersonation of another member. Do not Harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress or discomfort upon another Online Forum participant. This includes flaming on our forums or other public forums.
No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and recovery are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 222
Even though I dont go, sometimes I wish I did...to AA.
I do believe that there is something different in the brain of addicts versus non addicts, and supposedly research has begun to recognize and spread more light on this. I dont like to label it a "disease", but I also hate the other implication that you are getting at. Many strong and awesome people have struggled with alcohol, and sometimes lost. Noone here has any business (such as Alexander the Great or Ulysses Grant) to act like they are weak willed people.
It is still the individuals responsibility to get well though.
I do believe that there is something different in the brain of addicts versus non addicts, and supposedly research has begun to recognize and spread more light on this. I dont like to label it a "disease", but I also hate the other implication that you are getting at. Many strong and awesome people have struggled with alcohol, and sometimes lost. Noone here has any business (such as Alexander the Great or Ulysses Grant) to act like they are weak willed people.
It is still the individuals responsibility to get well though.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 222
Originally Posted by freshstart57
People who meditate frequently have different brains too, but somehow they have escaped the disease label.
Im curious though, and how has it benefited you?
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
I am not a good model for meditation, but what I do is to work at mindfulness. It is important for me to be able to observe my thoughts without becoming them, or needing to act on them, or dwelling on them. Meditation has helped me with acceptance, and learning to be with thoughts that make me uncomfortable. Meditation, mindfulness, urge surfing, acceptance, even AVRT, are different parts of the same whole for me. Acceptance, strength and wisdom, as they say.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 222
Thats good. One of my biggest flaws, by "modern" standards, is that I LOVE simplicity. People think Im weird or strange when I barely use my phone, walk most of the time instead of driving when I can, etc.
A lot of times I really desire to go off into and have a cabin in the mountains, because if it isnt Alcohol its something else. There's always a craving for some sort of extreme (there isnt enough booze or women to satisfy those cravings), and it can never be satisfied...I hate being this way, especially since it always seems to be geared towards bad habits and debauchery. Too bad it cant be towards something more productive.
A lot of times I really desire to go off into and have a cabin in the mountains, because if it isnt Alcohol its something else. There's always a craving for some sort of extreme (there isnt enough booze or women to satisfy those cravings), and it can never be satisfied...I hate being this way, especially since it always seems to be geared towards bad habits and debauchery. Too bad it cant be towards something more productive.
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