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Alcoholism...a disease?

Old 05-30-2013, 11:06 AM
  # 41 (permalink)  
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I don't really like the word disease so much either. But I definitely think it is a mental illness.
I think of cutters, hoarders. What they do is obviously so destructive and, "SICK."
Yes, we do indeed do it to ourselves.
I feel like mental illness makes much more sense. There have been so many times that I am putting the bottle to my lips as I curse myself, hate myself and know not single thing positive (other than very brief relief) will come from it.
No, it is not cancer. But if that is not sick, I don't know what is.
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Old 05-30-2013, 06:41 PM
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The only thing I know for sure is that when I was drinking, even when I wasn't drunk, I wasn't in my right mind. I had become wrapped up in the idea that I needed alcohol to cope with life, that I needed it to be at peace and have some form of happiness. Only now since I've gotten sober, do I realize how crazy that was.

In any case, mental illness or disease, I'm not sure what the difference is, my brain wasn't working properly.

For those who are already firmly in the choice side of the argument, this is a video that I doubt you'll get far into. For those on the disease side, this is a video that will probably have your complete and total attention for the whole 70 minutes.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hz6-2NwRzE
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:18 AM
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I do also believe that drinking addiction can not be called a disease rather its a habit where one get in with his or her own choice or sometimes forced but too difficult to come out of it. Since this drinking habit has not only ruined one's personal but social & official life too. But i hope you must have got rid of this problem, if not then do it fast through rehab counselling in your areas, which may help you to say adieu to this problem.
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Talana
I am an alcoholic and I don't see it as a disease. I see it as stupidity on my part.
It was my CHOICE to drink. Nobody forced me, I made bad choice after bad choice. I think a lot of people hide behind that word.
"I can't help it, it's a disease." I don't believe it is.
The Big Book doesn't use the word 'disease'.

"We have never called alcoholism a disease because, technically speaking, it is not a disease entity. For example, there is no such thing as heart disease. Instead there are many separate heart ailments, or combinations of them. It is something like that with alcoholism. Therefore we did not wish to get in wrong with the medical profession by pronouncing alcoholism a disease entity. Therefore we always called it an illness, or a malady -- a far safer term for us to use." Bill Wilson 1961
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Old 05-31-2013, 03:22 AM
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Alcoholism progresses to a disease at the later stages, its scientifically proven that once a certain point of use has been passed the cells in the human body mutate and they not only crave alcohol but don't function properly with out alcohol. (under the influence)

That being said alcohol its self is a habit forming drug, you drink enough for long enough you will get hooked.

I don't really care what it is no more all I care about is beating it and living a happy sober life!
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:12 AM
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Alcoholism- a disease, a disorder, a malady, a disease entity ?? ...... Ask George Carlin which word he uses.

George Carlin Shell Shock - YouTube

You can change the words but you can't change the truth.

All the best.

Bob R
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:14 AM
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Whether it's a disease, a malady, an illness, a past choice, learnt behaviour, nurture or nature, all that matters to me is that I can't drink safely again.
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Old 05-31-2013, 08:24 AM
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So for those of you who don’t think it’s a disease, how would you characterize the phenomenon of craving; the biological anomaly that is the alcoholic’s body’s inability to “correctly” process alcohol? It’s described pretty well on pages 34 and 35 of Under the Influence http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...influence.html.

Whether our unfortunate condition is brought on by genetic or environmental factors is irrelevant. I think it’s pretty obvious it’s a disease. We don’t process alcohol like most people do.

I get pretty fired up about this topic because I think languishing in the idea that we somehow have control over our intake – once it’s begun – is a recipe for a lot of dead alcoholics. Realize the phenomenon of craving is something that doesn’t occur in the average drinker. That’s the manifestation of the disease IMO. Once we start, we can’t stop.

People making excuses for their life’s wreckage a la “oh I’m alcoholic I can’t help it boo hoo hoo”…that’s another thing entirely. Disease or not, as adults our lives are our responsibility. You make your own bed, as the saying goes…
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:13 AM
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This is just my opinion. Please just take it as that. No, alcoholism is not a disease. It is a moral choice one makes in life. Cancer patients do not steal, lie and endanger public safety. Family & friends rally around the sick cancer patient but look down upon the alcoholic/addict. Cancer is a disease that one can prove while alcoholism is vague. Most doctors, secretly, do not believe in the alcoholism model. Cancer patients pay their bills & are not looking for hand outs. IMO, the "alcoholism is a disease" model was designed just to make alcoholics feel better & not so guilty. I choose not to pick up because I am tired of being a "drunkard" as the Bible puts it.
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Justfor1 View Post
This is just my opinion. Please just take it as that. No, alcoholism is not a disease. It is a moral choice one makes in life. Cancer patients do not steal, lie and endanger public safety. Family & friends rally around the sick cancer patient but look down upon the alcoholic/addict. Cancer is a disease that one can prove while alcoholism is vague. Most doctors, secretly, do not believe in the alcoholism model. Cancer patients pay their bills & are not looking for hand outs. IMO, the "alcoholism is a disease" model was designed just to make alcoholics feel better & not so guilty. I choose not to pick up because I am tired of being a "drunkard" as the Bible puts it.
You're looping in the wreckage our drunk behaviors create as symptoms of our disease. They aren't. Alcoholics respond differently to ethanol than non-alcoholics. It's processed within us in an unusual way. That's where the disease begins and ends. Nothing more, nothing less. I didn't make a choice to have this biological response to ethanol any more than I made a choice to have a particular blood type or to be male or human.

That being said, I don't doubt there are people who try to use their disease as an excuse to behave badly. These are two separate issues.

I think the disease model gets a bad rap because so many people like to use it to defend their horrible behaviors.
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:16 PM
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[QUOTE=MyPaperAnchor;3992828]You're looping in the wreckage our drunk behaviors create as symptoms of our disease.
That being said, I don't doubt there are people who try to use their disease as an excuse to behave badly. These are two separate issues.

Other chronic diseases do not cause people to behave immorally & criminally. I believe that alcoholics were sick people before they ever picked up their first drink. I often hear other alcoholics at meetings tell stories that they remember from a young age of stealing from other kids and disrespecting authority.
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Old 05-31-2013, 01:36 PM
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Its important to look at why someone might say the word "disease". The disease model was not created so people could sit on the couch and drink while using it as an excuse it was created to try and define something. Unfortunately like many of the definition attempts in the world of psychology (read the DSM V) they do a pretty half ass job to say the least. I think the terms malady and disorder are much safer because they are much broader- scientists might not like that but oh well its simply impossible to narrowly define addiction.

This is always a fun debate but its mostly semantics- I and many others like me can simply not successfully use substances in moderation- you could even call that a preference really, I prefer to be completely wasted and being completely wasted doesn't work out.
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Old 05-31-2013, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Justfor1 View Post

Other chronic diseases do not cause people to behave immorally & criminally.
dimentia and alzheimers do. any they arent chosen
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Old 05-31-2013, 02:25 PM
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I do not believe it is truely a disease.. drinking is done from each of our free will. It is only once we start drinking that we lose power over it.
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Old 05-31-2013, 03:42 PM
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In a way the U.S. government stopped saying it was a disease. Up until the late '80s (Regan era) a person could get disability for being a alcoholic/drug addict. Now a person cannot ever get disability if you have a drug & alcohol history. I should know because I was denied 5 times over the course of 3 years. I had one of the best lawyers in the Midwest. Basically, a federal appeals court Judge told me they do not consider it a disease at this time.
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by nomis View Post
The only thing I know for sure is that when I was drinking, even when I wasn't drunk, I wasn't in my right mind. I had become wrapped up in the idea that I needed alcohol to cope with life, that I needed it to be at peace and have some form of happiness. Only now since I've gotten sober, do I realize how crazy that was.

In any case, mental illness or disease, I'm not sure what the difference is, my brain wasn't working properly.

For those who are already firmly in the choice side of the argument, this is a video that I doubt you'll get far into. For those on the disease side, this is a video that will probably have your complete and total attention for the whole 70 minutes.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hz6-2NwRzE
Well I thought I was on the fence about this debate but the video had my complete and total attention for the whole 70 minutes, so I guess that puts me on the disease side. I have relapsed twice in 23 years since I first got sober. Both times involved similar circumstances.

The first time I had stopped going to AA and I had major stress from a life crisis (me and wife separated).

The 2nd time I had stopped going to AA, and I had major stress from a life crisis (major heart surgery and complications which caused loss of job).

After watching the video it makes sense to me. AA gave me the tools to deal with major stress in my life. In both instances I stayed sober for some time after I stopped AA until a major stress factor came into my life. Both times I relapsed after staying sober for approximately 7 years. I've always thought that my inability to deal with major stress in my life played a part in my drinking and relapses. I also like how he explained how 12 step recovery helps the addicted person avoid relapse by giving them the tools to deal with stress.

I appreciate you posting the video. Whether I was pro choice or pro disease doesn't really matter, all that matters is this video really helped to confirm what I already suspected in my mind.
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:12 PM
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The disease or allergy paradigm isn't helpful for me either. I view it more as just my own particular psychological and physiological chemistry. Once I start, I have a really hard time stopping.
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:23 PM
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Talana I am struggling with the same issue right now. Countless years of therapy and research landed me here. Mind you the therapy started well before my first drink, drug, or cigarette. I have always scoured my life on both sober days as well as drunken ones and I gotta tell ya...I was born with this feeling. There wasn't a brick wall that could have stopped some of the things I have done. I don't think it's doing either one of us any good to continue blaming and punishing ourselves. We probably both just need to accept whatever this is and go from there.
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Justfor1 View Post
This is just my opinion. Please just take it as that. No, alcoholism is not a disease. It is a moral choice one makes in life. Cancer patients do not steal, lie and endanger public safety. Family & friends rally around the sick cancer patient but look down upon the alcoholic/addict. Cancer is a disease that one can prove while alcoholism is vague. Most doctors, secretly, do not believe in the alcoholism model. Cancer patients pay their bills & are not looking for hand outs. IMO, the "alcoholism is a disease" model was designed just to make alcoholics feel better & not so guilty. I choose not to pick up because I am tired of being a "drunkard" as the Bible puts it.
Ya know, not every alcoholic is an immoral ********. I am not calling you that at all btw, but it does seem to be your opinion of the rest of alcoholics. I drank, but was never a petty criminal. I never looked for handouts either.
My family absolutely rallied around me in my trying to get better. And still do.
That is the thing about us, we come from all walks of life and some of us have absolutely nothing in common other than alcohol abuse.
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Talana View Post
Ok if it is a disease, it's a self inflicted disease.
I wouldn't have this "disease" if I didn't choose to drink all those years.
I still don't believe that addiction is the same as having a disease that you have no control over like say.... Dementia or degenerative blindness.
Maybe I'm being harsh but I bought this addiction on myself and now I have to deal with it.

Do u have control over it?
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