Ellie80

My father is quite narcissitic at times...he is also & alcoholic. Is this part of the alcoholics personality type in your experience?

caboblanco

IMO no. they have nothing to do with one another.

Ellie80

I have seen the two overlap a lot in my own practice.

Dr. Tian Dayton: Narcissism In A Bottle: The Self-Centeredness Of Addiction

Adillac

Somewhere in the BB, it says (paraphrased)- We think our problems are basically our relationships with other people

IMO, "fearful" is the best description of an alcoholic's "personality".

Deckard

I think the actions of an alcoholic are selfish. But "narcissism" also has connotations of vanity and high self regard that I'm not sure typically apply in this context.

awuh1

I have a hard time with the notion of an “alcoholic personality”. I have seen all sorts of folks in AA. However, they do tend to fall into general groups, IMO.

I would say that about 70% of alcoholics (just my rough estimate) fall into one of these general categories. Those with strong tendencies toward narcissism, depression, over anxiousness (this includes things like social anxiety, panic attacks etc.) or PTSD of various severities.

It seems like the lowest bottoms are hit by those with one of the above and a strong genetic predisposition to alcoholism.

I would agree with you that alcoholics generally tend to be a bit more selfish and self-centered than others. Yet some times I wonder if this is a cause or an effect of alcoholism with some individuals.

Johno1967

If narcissistic traits include being resentful, self centered, self seeking, rebellious and belligerent in nature, thinking everyone else is stupid, delusions of importance and believing that no one knows the games you play, that pretty well summarizes some of my more sedate character defects while I was drinking. I got a dressing down by a CEO of my company once which was unusual because it should have been a General Manager that did it, that's how bad I'd screwed up in my relationships with people in that company. The CEO pretty much called me all of the above and said I was like a "Bull in a China Shop" that left more bodies behind than a Train wreck. I smirked the whole way through that tirade and as I wrote my resignation out I still thought "what a bunch of w*nkers, these idiots don't have a clue!". I'm now making Step 9 calls to some of those people. I was the complete w*nker and yes "narcissistic" sounds fair.
I look back at the way I was only 8 months ago and think to myself: "I don't know that person. Was that really me?". Not me today by a long shot I hope.

fantail

I think selfishness/a self-centered perspective is a side effect of alcoholism. With any addiction, we effectively create a massive barrier between ourselves and others. By altering our mind, we spend a lot of time alone in our own little parallel reality. So our worldview gets further and further from other people's.

There are also just the logistical reasons. An alcoholic may black out or forget important things happening in other people's lives, not because they don't care but because they physically didn't store the memory. They might be unavailable emotionally because they are physically ill and need to seek out alcohol.

So my guess would be that both narcissistic people and non-narcissistic people become alcoholics... but any active alcoholic is going to be somewhat of an island unto themselves even if that's not their natural personality.

bemyself

I'm with you on this, Fantail - beautifully put!

Ellie80

Fantail and others,

I dont think the narcissism causes the alcoholism....i have heard others diagnose these almost as two mutually exclusive things. I think the alcoholism often looks like narcissistic behavior....but i think it is inaccurate to diagnose an alcoholic with NPD. A well respected addiction doctor once told me he thinks all personality disorders are really just addiction.

Deckard

Ellie, could you expand on this?

Ellie80

Well, what specifically would you like to know?

Deckard

Was he being figurative or literal? In other words, does he mean that personality disorders and addiction spring from some common underlying source? Or was he suggesting that everyone with a diagnosable personality disorder actually has a literal physical addiction or substance abuse disorder?

Db1105

I've heard the term "egomaniac with an inferiority complex" thrown out there quite a bit over the years. That was me.

Ellie80

He was saying that what we think may be a personality disorder is really the disease of addiction.

2granddaughters

Some great info here. Read the traits and definitions and make your own judgement.

Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers


All the best.

Bob R

BabyJane

True narcissists don't realize / admit that they are narcissists. Many of us have been extremely, even painfully self involved though and that's not far off... But I do know a few people who fall into the category of being narcissistic to the point of being actual sociopaths. And most alcoholics, in my opinion, do not qualify as sociopaths. Then again, I'm certainly not a psychiatrist or expert. I have had about 5 years of college level training in psychology, so I know a little. It does say in the diagnostic manual that a major marker of the personality disorders surrounding narcissism is an inability to recognize it in oneself. Does the person you're speaking of ever admit to being this way? Hummm...

ru12

No I don't think they are the same thing. When I drank I was mostly indifferent to most things.

choublak

Some of you are thinking too much.

GracieLou

I have nothing to add to the thread but this made me LOL!