bigsombrero

My friends and I recently found out that a friend from the past has cancer - this guy is not a member of our social group but we all know him from college - let's call him "Steve". He is a great guy, it's a real shame. He has a young family.

Upon hearing about Steve's problems my friends set up a facebook page for him. Full of encouragement. Donations to help with his healthcare bills. An outpouring of support, both financially and openly. Steve's story is gaining steam, he is beating this thing, and my friends' efforts have made sure his family can get by during this rough time. He gets out of the hospital soon, there is a party planned. We are all going to celebrate his battle. It's a happy time and it's been nice to contribute to his fight - even though he is not a close friend to any of us it's still the right thing to do.

When my problems surfaced 9 months ago, there was no facebook page. I had suffered 3 major seizures and was rushed to the hospital twice in an ambulance. I almost died. I received no cards when I was in treatment. Instead I got a few text messages. I received no help financially for my treatment. I too, am beating this thing. But there are no cheerleaders. No banners, no weekly e-mails detailing my recovery. Certainly no financial support for my extensive healthcare bills surrounding treatment. After 2 months in treatment/with family, I came home to an empty apartment.

Now, I am in NO WAY trying to equate my situation with Steve's. I don't have a young family. I CERTAINLY didn't want a facebook page dedicated to my recovery. I am in no way bitter towards Steve. But....

Do you see where I'm going with this? Alcoholism is such a tough issue to fight, not only because of how HARD it is, but also because this whole thing has to be done alone and under the covers. My life was in the balance. I was in a hospital. I was fighting hard. I was unemployed at the time. Yet, nobody rallied around me. Aside from my immediate family, nobody will proactively pat me on the back. I have to literally speak up about my continued sobriety to get so much as an acknowledgement from my friends.

I know you might say "this is what AA is for", and that's fine. I use AA. But it's not the same type of support. Has anyone else ever noticed these differences? What has been your experience?

bigsombrero

Edit - I know I talked a lot about finances above. I DO NOT want money. I also am NOT bitter towards my friends. I am just saying...look at the way alcoholism is viewed vs. other illnesses, wondering if anyone else sees this and what they think.

MsJax

The good thing about my alcoholism vs. my very good friends metastatic breast cancer is that I know for sure, with my ongoing good choices & lifestyle changes I now have the opportunity to live well for many more years. She doesn't have that certainty and it breaks my heart.

I think Facebook and the Internet blows things up. My friend would Not want any sort of Facebook page regarding her battle.

I see what you are saying, but, just for me, my recovery is intensely personal and my issue only. My support comes from sober recovery, journaling, walking, loving my dogs, introspection. I don't need or want any hype. I would be embarrassed to get it for doing the right things for myself. The hits I took financially from being a drunk are my problem.

And good work on your sobriety . Keep on!

hypochondriac

I totally agree with this. It's a tough one to break through though when the majority of people see alcoholism as a moral weakness and fail to understand why we can't just drink less. I think that is why there is such a strong sense of camaraderie among recovering alcoholics, because recovery is secretive and isolated and it is rare to talk to someone else who gets it. None of my friends or family understand or recognise my achievement. There is usually a bit of nervous laughter if I ever bring it up. I think the whole disease argument is a moot point really, it's like diabetes caused by lifestyle choices or lung cancer caused by smoking. Just because someone's actions had a hand in where they ended up doesn't mean they are less worthy of care.

miamifella

As addicts and alcoholics we have always had a choice for how -- or if--our "disease" manifests itself.

Cancer patients do not have such a choice.

We can take responsibility for being a drunk. You cannot take responsibility for a tumor. All the good lifestyle choices and healthy living can only go so far. Not drinking or drugging goes all the way.

So of course people treat these maladies differently.

SereneEdition

Hi bigs -

comparisons can be tough.

from a societal & social standpoint, alcoholism is a much more complex disease, with treatment rooted in behavior change instead of the typical western definition of acute disease that can be corrected via a pill or surgery.

Culturally there is still a lot of uncomfortableness and shame that surrounds the issue - but this is changing. And while we're in the process, there is uncertainty, and people won't rush ahead when that uncertainty as there isn't a standard response as there is with cancer.

However, I still think that we can show how others can join us in celebrating our recovery, and it starts first with how we authentically see our recovery as something worthy of celebrating instead of shameful. Our peers will take their cues from us - but you do have to create the space for them to do so.

Socially, it's similar to seeing someone with a bump and asking if they are pregnant - you don't want to ask about their pregnancy until they offer than information first because if they aren't pregnant it's an insult! When the person with the bump says 'hey i'm pregnant and we're thrilled', it makes the space for people to join in the congratulations.

Please note that many women decide to keep pregnancy under wraps as well until it's visually obvious & many cancer patients also decide to keep their disease private as long as possible - think Steve Jobs. Like alcoholism, disease (and change) isn't universally supported and once the info is 'out' it can't be put back in.

So I guess in summary, the cultural 'rules' are mixed at best, but we do have control over how we present ourselves and can influence how people receive us more than we realize.

Now doing that is another thing Great questions - keep them coming!

Coldfusion

When I saw the title of this thread, my first thought was "compare alcoholism and cancer." And you did that in your first sentence...

My Dad died of cancer in 1992. I was with my first wife for 20 years, she died of cancer in 2003. As with alcoholism, there are usually a lot of choices with cancer.

Dad was a disabled veteran; he lost part of a leg, a finger, and the use of an eye in Korea. When he died of cancer, he chose not to take morphine because he had addiction problems with it in the past.

I won't go in to all the choices we had to make when my wife died of cancer, but some of them involved money and insurance. In retrospect, during our time together I regret some of the choices I made concerning alcohol and drugs, but I believe we had a good relationship.

If we choose not to be victims of our addiction, there is free help available from God. Dad and I talked about God before he died, my wife died shortly after a religious confession. I am not too proud to ask God to help me with my addiction, and am taking the steps necessary to find Him (like reading posts here at SR, going to meetings and working with a sponsor).

Sasha4

Knowing what I know now, it makes me sad that no-one does a sponsored fun run for AA or a car boot sale to raise funds for NA. Nobody would probably give donations to cocaine anonymous if they were asked to.

But that can only come from knowing what I know now Big.
I think unless you know yourself what it is like you don't have that compassion, that understanding. People who are alcoholics just drink too much and thats the end of it. Where as now, after my struggles, I realise that it is no way that straight forward.


I am thankful I have that compassion and understanding though.
I realise that it makes me who I am now. I'm glad.

Che

You say Steve was a great guy. Let's pretend that's not just a throw away comment. People liked him and were sad that a good friend was in danger and suffering.

Isn't it common that alcoholics admit they've abused their loved ones? You were a selfish drunk trying to run from his problems with drugs, and Steve was just a nice guy people liked (maybe he smoked, maybe that's why he got cancer, but he probably didn't ditch people so he could smoke, which is what alcoholics do for drink).

All I read in this post is 'me me me' that you wish you'd had a lot of people who liked you and helped you, even if it wasn't through a Facebook page. So how much have you really changed? Friendships and loved ones are earned. Steve, it looks like, touched a lot of people's lives in a positive way. If you want that kind of affection, you should start trying to be nice to people too

Sasha4

I don't read me, me, me at all in your post Big.

I really do get where you are coming from. I understand you 100% my friend.

How about it from another angle?
What if Steve had cancer, had a young family to support and actually really was not a nice guy or a good guy?
Would there still be donations and a facebook page?
And surely everyone with cancer deserves to be treated well, have sympathy and empathy, not just good people, but bad people too?

It makes it feel like there are levels of illness that warrant sympathy and levels of goodness in people too.

Or maybe I am just rambling!

bigsombrero

And sometimes in a sea full of negative responses, it's best to single out the one that makes the most sense and ignore the others. This really spoke to me. This is exactly what I was talking about - no "fun runs" to support the recovery systems, no boot sales to raise awareness. THAT would be cool. Interesting that there's really no visible aspects to alcoholism - even when it comes to recovery. Thanks!

bigsombrero

You're right! I was just responding to you - when I read that "me, me, me" comment it really made me feel depressed, like nobody understood what I meant. But you nailed it - I don't WANT to be treated special or given a parade!

I was just trying to say that it's interesting that the non-drinking community harbors no sympathy for the alcoholic. Or something like that. We are all rambling I suppose!

Thx again!

Sasha4

Most welcome Big xxxx

Sasha4

And is that why it is all so misunderstood?
Like when someone we don't think would be an alcoholic or a drug addict, we are shocked and say 'I would not have thought he/she would have been like that!'
Like if someone is not homeless or a tramp then there is no way they can be a 'proper' alcoholic can they?

bigsombrero

Glad you read through my clutter hypo and got the message. You also bring up some good points! The "nervous laughter" thing hit home, that's all I get from friends. I've never asked for anything from them really though, but I can tell it's something that would be more preferred to be swept under the rug. I always feel embarassed as soon as I broach the subject too, then I become self-depreciating and change the subject. There's still a lot of shame.

My father is gay, and when he came out of the closet when I was a teenager, he was met with nothing but scorn. How could he make this choice? How could he do this to his family? He was so selfish! Etc, etc. Having seen that, I know now how why he felt so terrible. Not to mention he had to learn how to navigate the Gay Community at the same time - no wonder he moved to Florida and started a "new life" with his partner...

I was never mean to my dad about it though. I did resent him for a while, but I was over it by my late teens. Never told my frat buddies about that one, though. So it was also a "hidden" thing...

Also, my 1 year anny of sobriety is this summer. I know none of my friends would even think to ask me out for lunch or even acknowledge it. Maybe I should ask a group of my old friends out for brunch or something?

miamifella

Another part of this that occurs to me, is that at some point most people have been treated badly by some addict or alcoholic. I know that before I became an addict I had a terrible view of them because of some irresponsible and abusive roommates.

But the more I think about this, the more I think why does it matter? Comparing the way we are treated vs. the way others are can only lead away from taking responsibility for myself. I cannot care if the stigma is fair or unfair. I cannot care others get more support than I do. This is because my recovery is based on taking responsibility for myself. Comparisons can only provide excuses for me to do less than I need to.

bigsombrero

Me neither. But certainly you've noticed the different degrees of sympathy your friend has received vs. you. She doesn't want a parade either - but she probably has an outpouring of support and people ready to help her whenever. Alcoholics in recovery get nothing more than a raised eyebrow when it comes to their condition.

Also, yes you have a good point - you CAN live on if you make the right personal choices, she might not have that luck. Too true.

bigsombrero

I also do not have time to care. I do have time to ponder it though, and just opened up the topic to collectively "group ponder" the stigma. You are right about the negative views due to being on the receiving end of mean alcoholics, good point.

TheEnd

In my case I did have those things. People had my back and wanted to support me, because they knew I had so much potential, but my addictions were killing me. I received cards, gifts, and financial contributions as a sign of support, but my story could be an exception. People don't really understand alcoholism for what it is. There is such a social stigma behind the issue, that people look at it differently. Even on here, we can't agree as a community about whether alcoholism is a disease or not. So why would you expect a non-alcoholic to be sympathetic? On the other hand, there is cancer and there is no debate about it's seriousness. People look at it differently. In the end it is kind of different. We have the power to fight back against our alcoholism. Cancer is a little different. Even with all the advances in treatment, there is still no guarantee that treatment will be successful. With recovery, you get out of it what you put into it.

shauninspain

In the big book of AA it says.... ''If a person has cancer all are sorry for him and no one is angry or hurt. But not so with the alcoholic....''

It's true, alcoholism is seen by almost all non alcoholics as a weakness by a weak person. Their is no understanding or tolerance for us. Indeed, we're seen as a pain in the rear end.