Dave H

In my Tuesday night group we have been having a rash of relapses. This is disturbing to the rest of the group and our counselor decided to address it.

Three of the people who relapsed lately were back at group tonight. One of those people has relapsed twice in a year. This last time was very bad. Our counselor told them this: "I will not hold your hands anymore. You all know what is at stake here. If you do not get serious about your sobriety you are going to die. And if you do, I will attend your funeral. I will then go home, take off my shoes and run my toes through my plush carpet and watch tv. I will kiss my wife and play with my kids while someone throws dirt over top of you. I will go on with life and you will be dead! Now get serious about your sobriety or find another group!"

I guess that sums it up. I'm getting serious about my sobriety. 142 days and counting. Relapse is not an option!

Taking5

I treat relapsers with a lot more compassion than this. AA's responsibility statement reads:

To me telling someone you won't hold their hand at the end of the meeting, but you will go to their funeral and enjoy your life afterwards does not reconcile with the spirit or intent of this statement.

BackToSquareOne

I know that a lot of people are true belivers in the "Get Tough" approach but it never worked for me. My belief is that those deeply in the throes of addiction are sick people that lack the ability to make clear and rational decisions.

We do have free will but the power of choice can get so corrupted by addiction that what we end up with is a disease of corrupted choice. The only way to cure this is to keep the person off the substance long enough to allow the brain to normalize.

Drill Sergeant tactics, while they may work in some cases can also have the reverse effect of driving the person even deeper into their addiction as they seek release and relief. I'm a firm believer that kindness, understanding and compassion are very often a much better path although nothing is written in stone, people are all different.

Ghostly

Well...to be fair, I don't know if from that one statement you can tell if the counselor is kind and compassionate. They were making the statement in a particular context, and it seems like it may have been an appropriate thing to say under certain circumstances. I also respectfully disagree that the statement contradicts the quote in Takin5's post.

As far as we know, after making the statement, the counselor took someone home and offered to pick them up for another meeting and/or was on their phone all night trying to talk someone from drinking. We don't know, and the counselor could be one of the most compassionate people alive.

I have no problem with that approach or statement. I wouldn't even say its tough love. I think it was a blunt statement of fact...and it had its desired effect on the OP for the time being.

Just imho.

needhelptoquit

I am completely flummoxed by my inability to stay sober. I have gone to AA meetings on and off since 1989, been to rehab and outpatient treatment, put together periods of sobriety, sometimes up to 2 years, and still gone back to drinking!

I have a good life, a great mind, a wonderful family, and no earthly reason to keep drinking! Why oh why do I do this? It makes me feel bad, interferes with my day, and is starting to affect my health.

Tough love and religious approaches scare me into sobriety for awhile, but sooner or later there I am again. I am a total closet drinker (literally) and dont want anyone to know I am drinking again, but I really want to quit for good.

I am so tired of this monkey on my back!

Any suggestions? Please don't scold. I already feel bad enough as it is.

Needhelptoquit

Fandy

Hi nhtq!
Welcome to SR....glad you found us.
Read through the secular sections of the forum, there are different approaches which might help you if you have not been able to relate to the AA method of sobriety.
Whatever you decide to do, connect in here daily.

Pondlady

Welcome needhelptoquit,
You might consider starting a new thread under the New Comers forum to get more exposure. Many of us have similar experiences and frustrations, so you'll find a lot of support here

bi11fish

I don't know about anyone else but I have not seen "counselors" leading group at any AA meeting I have been to. This is rehab not AA. My AA responsibility is to the Alcoholic who reaches out for help. I carry the message not the drunk!!!

2granddaughters

I think AA's HOW IT WORKS pretty well describes it. HOW IT WORKS describes a lot of things well ......


Alcoholics Anonymous - How it works

RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.

Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now. If you have decided that you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it - then you are ready to take certain steps.

At some of these we balked. We thought that we could find an easier, softer way. But we could not. With all earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.

Remember that we deal with alcohol - cunning, baffling, powerful! Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power - that One is God. May you find him now.

Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. We asked His protection and care with complete abandon.

Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery:

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Many of us exclaimed, "What an order! I can't go through with it." Do not be discouraged. No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints. The point is, that we were willing to grow along spiritual lines. The principles we have set down are guides to progress. We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection.

Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:

(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.

(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.

(c) That God could and would if He were sought.

How it works - Chapter 5, page 58-60 of the Book,
Alcoholics Anonymous
© Alcoholics Anonymous



My sponsor told me years ago to take the new sponsees to the meetings to show them where they are, get them settled into a routine and answer any questions they may have... then let them go get their recovery the same as you are.

Some are going to die because they won't "get it"... some are going to die because they can't "get it".

The simple fact that "some are sicker than others" has to be recognized. Some are going to die.

The question is "Am I going to do all I can in AA to be on the LIVING side of the ledger down the line".

To me, AA was the last house on the street. Just past AA was a large cliff that led to oblivion and death.

I have a newby under wing right now that is doing a half-a$$ed job of AA. I have done about all I can for him and I truly fear for his future. I fear more for his wife and children ... but it is in God's hands.

I was in a recovery home in 1989 and the old priest that ran the home often threw out folks who weren't trying to get sober. There were 10 others waiting for that bed and he knew he was wasting time on somebody who wasn't working. That is the simple truth of it. I'm sure old Father Paul's heart was broken many times but he got a lot of folks sober .... and prayed for those he didn't.
I DID WHAT FR PAUL SAID IN 1989 SO I WOULDN'T GET KICKED OUT .. and I'm alive today in AA because I did what I was told. I put enough pride & ego aside to allow AA to get and keep me sober and sane. I still have lots of pride and ego to move aside today and I'm working on it through regular meeting attendance. I am not cured !

I have "a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of my spiritual condition".

All the best.

Bob R

Veritas1

Love and tolerance is our code.
Never talk down to an alcoholic.
Frothy emotional appeals...

I would rather hear that the "counselor" said, "Let me help you."

Let's get in the book Alcoholics Anonymous together and follow the program outlined in the pages...the steps.

People that relapse refuse to submit to the process which successful completion of this spiritual program of action requires...

Something like that.

If anyone told me that they were going to throw dirt on me, then go home and kick back .... how rude. How unkind.

How pompous, how arrogant.

God save me from being angry.

Fandy

The OP does NOT say he attends an AA group.

if you look at his other postings he states that he attends Celebrate Recovery and Recovering with Grace.

Justfor1

Dave, I had been told by many therapists that I was going to die in a relapse. I was also told by my mother, friends, AA members, even hardened "inner city" police, that I was going to die. The thing was that I wasn't. I also was not afraid to die in my addiction so that "tough talking" but well meaning therapist would not of worked with me.

Veritas1

The OP does not say he doesn't attend AA meetings here on this thread.

I did follow your advice however, and looked at his other postings, where in one he specifically agrees with someone who mentioned going to AA meetings, and he said it wasn't until he went to meetings that he got sober...

I guess we will let the OP comment for himself.

I'm bowing out.

Time to be quiet for me! Another lesson learned today.

ru12

It is sad that many people relapse and some die. Members of AA die from drinking as well as non-members. I think tough love saves some and kills others.

Sudz No More

Great Post and I completely agree. When I Get put down in this way my first reaction is to heck with it and images of beer start going through my head. When people give me understanding reassurance I feel stronger to try harder because I don't want to let them down.

soberlicious

Whether or not I agree with Dave H.'s counselor has exactly zero to do with his OP.

Dave H...I am so glad to hear that you are very committed to making this time be the last time. Drinking as "not an option"...ever...is exactly how I found freedom.

Sudz No More

True soberlicious. Congrats to Dave H on his commitment to sobriety and if this tough love gave him strength then that is awesome.

Taking5

I took the OP's use of the word "group" to mean AA group. A group counselor, in a position of authority over a group counseling session, can certainly use "tough love" as he/she sees fit. However as an AA member I would still use my approach. To each his/her own.

HappyDestiny3

The 3 places drinking are promised to take us..

The Icehouse

The Big House

The Mental House..

I made two of them, I am in no rush for the 3rd.. And the goal is, for when that time comes I do it free from alcohol..